Chevrolet Cheetah and Corvette
02-01-2015, 09:53 AM
#81
Melting Slicks
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I have come across a guy in Columbus , Ohio who has a newer Cheetah kit which he built using a LS engine.
Looks very cool, and he drives it a lot.
Sorry I don't have a picture.
Looks very cool, and he drives it a lot.
Sorry I don't have a picture.
02-01-2015, 12:00 PM
#82
Race Director
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02-01-2015, 12:48 PM
#83
Team Owner
Aesthetically they look b!tchin' from the front. From the rear they look visually unbalanced big time. I guess if you are in to big booty stuff they are appealing
02-01-2015, 01:23 PM
#85
that last video of the cheetah evolution (test drive)...it has a 290 hp engine...wow, that thing sounds so good...the vid of driving that down those back roads......WANT!!!
02-01-2015, 01:38 PM
#87
02-01-2015, 02:16 PM
#88
Drifting
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It's too bad that Bill Thomas III and Bob Auxier can't settle their dispute. It sounds like there might be a market for Bob's continuation Cheetahs.
02-01-2015, 02:51 PM
#89
Drifting
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Just checked Bob's website and it sounds like they are building cars. Prices start at about 115K. Ouch.
02-01-2015, 04:40 PM
#90
the bill thomas cheetah says:
"The list retail price is $119,000."
the Ruth Engineering Cheetah Evolution says:
"Package Cost: $45,000"
but at the bottom it also says:
"Client responsible for wheels/tires, engine and transmission, interior appointments, wiring harness, paint, lights and mirrors, steering wheel."
well, i guess cool styling costs $$$!!!
they are cool!
"The list retail price is $119,000."
the Ruth Engineering Cheetah Evolution says:
"Package Cost: $45,000"
but at the bottom it also says:
"Client responsible for wheels/tires, engine and transmission, interior appointments, wiring harness, paint, lights and mirrors, steering wheel."
well, i guess cool styling costs $$$!!!
they are cool!
02-01-2015, 05:13 PM
#91
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The Cheetah was NOT designed to be aesthetically pleasing-----------------------it was designed to be a bad to the bone, functional race car!!!
Bill Thomas did not build the car (nor any of his other projects) with unlimited GM funding and engineering. For the most part, he did everything on his own nickel. And taking that into consideration, he did pretty damn good. I have an old Bill Thomas catalog, and it's rather amazing what he developed and offered for sale.
I'm thankful to just have one of his modified FI plenums.
Bill Thomas did not build the car (nor any of his other projects) with unlimited GM funding and engineering. For the most part, he did everything on his own nickel. And taking that into consideration, he did pretty damn good. I have an old Bill Thomas catalog, and it's rather amazing what he developed and offered for sale.
I'm thankful to just have one of his modified FI plenums.
02-01-2015, 10:51 PM
#92
Team Owner
After GM turned their nose up at the Cheetah
I think Bill Thomas took as much enjoyment and maybe more when beating Chevrolet's stuff on the track with his Chevrolets. I just wonder how aware if he was, of the Grand Sport saga and what the Executives did to that. I might refresh my memory on the date of that, in correlation to the GS program and what executives he met with etc. I know I have it all in my notes somewhere!
After the Cheetah door slam, I don't think he would have taken GM money and I can't recall that he ever did after that, but prior yes!!!!!!
After the Cheetah door slam, I don't think he would have taken GM money and I can't recall that he ever did after that, but prior yes!!!!!!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 02-02-2015 at 02:53 PM.
02-01-2015, 11:55 PM
#93
Racer
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St. Jude Donor '14
It isn't just the horsepower, it is the complete instability of the car. It has its engine in the center, or near center, and everything else in back, so f/r weigh ratio is insane, more like a rear engine car. (Think of how many no-so-good drivers have bought it with 911s.)
Add that to a 90 inch wheelbase, the thing can pivot about the center axis instantly, something Corvette and even Porsche decided was NOT a great idea for high speed road racers. There is little polar moment to the design.
THEN you add the 500 hp that will break the rear tires loose in any condition, so applying it wrong will sever any connection the body had with the Earth and any change of going in a straight line.
The one above in the rain is obviously driven by an extremely skilled driver, or going very, very slowly.
Add that to a 90 inch wheelbase, the thing can pivot about the center axis instantly, something Corvette and even Porsche decided was NOT a great idea for high speed road racers. There is little polar moment to the design.
THEN you add the 500 hp that will break the rear tires loose in any condition, so applying it wrong will sever any connection the body had with the Earth and any change of going in a straight line.
The one above in the rain is obviously driven by an extremely skilled driver, or going very, very slowly.
The Pontiac Solstice makes me wanna 
and since I couldn't afford a Cheetah, I got a Saturn Sky Redline with the intention of ragging out the engine and then put an LS2 conversion in it. Same squirrelly characteristics. Fun at every corner. But wont sell it to the 20 somethings always trying to buy it...they will die in it. I am 50 and hope to be 80 in it. Go Cheetah...thanks for the inspiration. 
02-02-2015, 08:53 AM
#94
Team Owner
The Cheetah was NOT designed to be aesthetically pleasing-----------------------it was designed to be a bad to the bone, functional race car!!!
Bill Thomas did not build the car (nor any of his other projects) with unlimited GM funding and engineering. For the most part, he did everything on his own nickel. And taking that into consideration, he did pretty damn good. I have an old Bill Thomas catalog, and it's rather amazing what he developed and offered for sale.
I'm thankful to just have one of his modified FI plenums.
Bill Thomas did not build the car (nor any of his other projects) with unlimited GM funding and engineering. For the most part, he did everything on his own nickel. And taking that into consideration, he did pretty damn good. I have an old Bill Thomas catalog, and it's rather amazing what he developed and offered for sale.
I'm thankful to just have one of his modified FI plenums.
Some cars are just funky looking XKE 2+2, MGB-GT, etc... I don't care how fast they go in a circle
02-02-2015, 11:59 AM
#95
Safety Car
Thanks for your kind words, TCR. I try to contribute my selected little So Cal Corvette scene reminisces, memories and opinions where I think they may help fill in the total picture.
Regarding Bill Thomas Sr., it is easy to mix him up with (Pasadena-based?) auto performance book author "California Bill". AIR they were two different people, but correct me if I'm wrong.
In the absence of an official Bill Thomas biography, I first noticed publicity by about 1961 of his Corvair performance improvements, most notably his four-carb mod. AIR he would ship you a finished manifold in exchange for your stocker and a reasonable amount of $$$. I hope GM compensated him in some way when they made his design standard on production cars. They DID work with him on bigger projects, but that mostly died with GM's racing ban.
I think he was the first person to drop a 327/360 hp FI engine into a new 1962 Chevy Nova. Zero to sixty was 5.2 seconds, faster than a '62 'Vette with the same engine, which took 5.5 seconds AIR. He later offered a rather expensive but very complete kit for this swap, including extra-wide steel wheels, HD brakes, etc. I'd be interested to see a content and price comparison with the similar Chevy Parts Dept. offering, if they weren't identical. And of course later on there was Bad Bascomb, a part-fiberglass Nova SS hardtop with FI and C2 IRS, and Bad Bascomb II, which I remember faintly as a second-gen ('68 or later) fiberglass sort-of funny car.
His SBC and 409 tuning achievements were less well known, but his services were highly valued by pro and amateur racers.
I find it amazing how he was able to keep so many project ***** in the air and deliver on time until the double whammy of the fire and GM's withdrawal from racing. If not for those developments, Bill Thomas might have made Carroll Shelby look like an also-ran. He and Zora could have engineered Chevy domination of racing from Le Mans to NASCAR to SCCA.
Was GM correct in pulling the plug on factory-backed performance? They certainly left a void for Ford to fill the following year!
Jim Hall's Chaparrals were a bright light for Chevy fans in those dark Blue Oval-dominated days. And when Roger Penske and Mark Donohue got working on a Trans Am Camaro, maybe their comparatively "underdog" image really struck the politically-correct "independent racer" note GM could live with.
But the late Bill Thomas remains a proven engineering genius, team motivator, good businessman and a VERY deserving big-time might-have-been whose accomplishments all Corvette people should know!
Regarding Bill Thomas Sr., it is easy to mix him up with (Pasadena-based?) auto performance book author "California Bill". AIR they were two different people, but correct me if I'm wrong.
In the absence of an official Bill Thomas biography, I first noticed publicity by about 1961 of his Corvair performance improvements, most notably his four-carb mod. AIR he would ship you a finished manifold in exchange for your stocker and a reasonable amount of $$$. I hope GM compensated him in some way when they made his design standard on production cars. They DID work with him on bigger projects, but that mostly died with GM's racing ban.
I think he was the first person to drop a 327/360 hp FI engine into a new 1962 Chevy Nova. Zero to sixty was 5.2 seconds, faster than a '62 'Vette with the same engine, which took 5.5 seconds AIR. He later offered a rather expensive but very complete kit for this swap, including extra-wide steel wheels, HD brakes, etc. I'd be interested to see a content and price comparison with the similar Chevy Parts Dept. offering, if they weren't identical. And of course later on there was Bad Bascomb, a part-fiberglass Nova SS hardtop with FI and C2 IRS, and Bad Bascomb II, which I remember faintly as a second-gen ('68 or later) fiberglass sort-of funny car.
His SBC and 409 tuning achievements were less well known, but his services were highly valued by pro and amateur racers.
I find it amazing how he was able to keep so many project ***** in the air and deliver on time until the double whammy of the fire and GM's withdrawal from racing. If not for those developments, Bill Thomas might have made Carroll Shelby look like an also-ran. He and Zora could have engineered Chevy domination of racing from Le Mans to NASCAR to SCCA.
Was GM correct in pulling the plug on factory-backed performance? They certainly left a void for Ford to fill the following year!
Jim Hall's Chaparrals were a bright light for Chevy fans in those dark Blue Oval-dominated days. And when Roger Penske and Mark Donohue got working on a Trans Am Camaro, maybe their comparatively "underdog" image really struck the politically-correct "independent racer" note GM could live with.
But the late Bill Thomas remains a proven engineering genius, team motivator, good businessman and a VERY deserving big-time might-have-been whose accomplishments all Corvette people should know!
DOUG HOOPER who drove for Mickey at RIVERSIDE in October 62 and won, then again at Daytona in February 63 was scheduled to co drive with BILL KRAUSE a Thompson Z0-6 car at LeMans in June 1963. DOUG, BILL, JUNIOR JOHNSON and others were all fired by Thompson after the last race on February 17, 1963. GM 14th floor management came down hard at Daytona and said ''no corporate racing''
BILL KRAUSE told me last March he went with Thompson and Chevrolet after his COBRA drive at Riverside in October. Shelby wanted him bad as a driver but had no money and history other than a driver. THOMPSON met with Bunkie Knudsen and CHEVROLET promised him LeMans and a future.
As he said, they lied......and DOUG said, ''never quite your day job''
This racing history period needs more research.
Last edited by jimgessner; 02-02-2015 at 12:03 PM.
02-02-2015, 12:32 PM
#96
Team Owner
Mickey Thompson Socal kid out of El Monte
Just to the northwest of Whittier Blvd. Him and Thomas crossed path starting at Lions Drag Strip where Thompson was the Manager after starting to work there as a teenager.After the record attempts he skyrocketed in fame and kept close relations with the factory execs! Mickey hired top guys and they crossed paths with the Z-06s, but never worked on anything together. They had some competitor banter.
When the GM enforcement of the ban came down, that influenced Dealerships, some like Don Steves followed suit with the mandate, but basically Bill Thomas had already opened his own shop 1960 and then one of his employers back in the 50's, was now his customer in the 1960's! He was a favorite of Vince Piggens early on in the early 1960's and did some projects and worked with one of the GM prototypes, but I don't have notes here at work with me. He continued taking in customers and supported privateers in a number of racing formats. He also was a business man and did deals with the Dealerships.
Mickey went to Indy and top level Drag Raing and even had aspirations for Formula One there for awhile! Thompson opened his shop in 1959! Thompson was a very high profile/out spoken type of guy, whereas Bill Thomas let his cars, do the talking!
When the GM enforcement of the ban came down, that influenced Dealerships, some like Don Steves followed suit with the mandate, but basically Bill Thomas had already opened his own shop 1960 and then one of his employers back in the 50's, was now his customer in the 1960's! He was a favorite of Vince Piggens early on in the early 1960's and did some projects and worked with one of the GM prototypes, but I don't have notes here at work with me. He continued taking in customers and supported privateers in a number of racing formats. He also was a business man and did deals with the Dealerships.
Mickey went to Indy and top level Drag Raing and even had aspirations for Formula One there for awhile! Thompson opened his shop in 1959! Thompson was a very high profile/out spoken type of guy, whereas Bill Thomas let his cars, do the talking!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 02-02-2015 at 02:54 PM.
02-02-2015, 12:33 PM
#97
Safety Car
Just enjoyed re-reading this thread. As a customer of the original Bill Thomas shop in Anaheim, I take exception to the description "burned to the ground".
The Julianna Street building was/is cinder block, which withstood the fire. While many valuable cars, parts, tools and tooling were lost in the 1965 fire (the roof probably fell in), the building was cleaned up, restored, and Bill was again busy with engine building, dyno tuning, drag and road-race prep, etc. for several more years. So it would be more correct IMO to say the CONTENTS were destroyed, burned beyond usefulness.
I've seen sketches online of his proposed second-generation larger, roomier, more comfortable and more gracefully-styled "street" Cheetah, which was to have had comforts like opening windows, A/C (and a big-block option!). I seem to recall the beginnings of a prototype being lost in the fire.
But that program and the interest and investment necessary to make it happen must have died anyway due to the lack of publicity and interest 100 race-winning production first-gen Cheetahs could have generated. And Chevy no doubt would not have looked kindly on that kind of competition for the existing dual-purpose Corvette.
The Anaheim building still stands today. The garage doors have been replaced by walls, so it's probably used for office space.
The Julianna Street building was/is cinder block, which withstood the fire. While many valuable cars, parts, tools and tooling were lost in the 1965 fire (the roof probably fell in), the building was cleaned up, restored, and Bill was again busy with engine building, dyno tuning, drag and road-race prep, etc. for several more years. So it would be more correct IMO to say the CONTENTS were destroyed, burned beyond usefulness.
I've seen sketches online of his proposed second-generation larger, roomier, more comfortable and more gracefully-styled "street" Cheetah, which was to have had comforts like opening windows, A/C (and a big-block option!). I seem to recall the beginnings of a prototype being lost in the fire.
But that program and the interest and investment necessary to make it happen must have died anyway due to the lack of publicity and interest 100 race-winning production first-gen Cheetahs could have generated. And Chevy no doubt would not have looked kindly on that kind of competition for the existing dual-purpose Corvette.
The Anaheim building still stands today. The garage doors have been replaced by walls, so it's probably used for office space.
02-02-2015, 12:50 PM
#98
as i've been looking stuff up on the web about these in the last few days, i sort of wish there was a good book written about the history of the cheetah...
i am currently reading the book "go like hell", which is about ford's development of the gt40 and their pursuit to beat ferarri at lemans in the 60s. it is a very interesting story....
the interesting thing to contrast is someone above saying that GM/chevy was not throwing unlimited funds at Bill Thomas to develop the cheetah...and it was built to beat the shelby cobra.
you contrast that to Ford and what they did w/ the gt40, i believe i just came to the part where they figured they had spent close to $6 million developing the GT40 and prepping them for races.
very early in the book it was stated: ford had nothing that could compete w/ the chevy corvette at the time and Henry Ford II was not happy b/c at the time chevy had 60% of the market share of sales. and they basically attributed it to the fact that the corvette was successful at the track and as a race car....interesting stuff to read...
i am currently reading the book "go like hell", which is about ford's development of the gt40 and their pursuit to beat ferarri at lemans in the 60s. it is a very interesting story....
the interesting thing to contrast is someone above saying that GM/chevy was not throwing unlimited funds at Bill Thomas to develop the cheetah...and it was built to beat the shelby cobra.
you contrast that to Ford and what they did w/ the gt40, i believe i just came to the part where they figured they had spent close to $6 million developing the GT40 and prepping them for races.
very early in the book it was stated: ford had nothing that could compete w/ the chevy corvette at the time and Henry Ford II was not happy b/c at the time chevy had 60% of the market share of sales. and they basically attributed it to the fact that the corvette was successful at the track and as a race car....interesting stuff to read...
02-02-2015, 02:29 PM
#99
as i've been looking stuff up on the web about these in the last few days, i sort of wish there was a good book written about the history of the cheetah...
i am currently reading the book "go like hell", which is about ford's development of the gt40 and their pursuit to beat ferarri at lemans in the 60s. it is a very interesting story....
the interesting thing to contrast is someone above saying that GM/chevy was not throwing unlimited funds at Bill Thomas to develop the cheetah...and it was built to beat the shelby cobra.
you contrast that to Ford and what they did w/ the gt40, i believe i just came to the part where they figured they had spent close to $6 million developing the GT40 and prepping them for races.
very early in the book it was stated: ford had nothing that could compete w/ the chevy corvette at the time and Henry Ford II was not happy b/c at the time chevy had 60% of the market share of sales. and they basically attributed it to the fact that the corvette was successful at the track and as a race car....interesting stuff to read...
i am currently reading the book "go like hell", which is about ford's development of the gt40 and their pursuit to beat ferarri at lemans in the 60s. it is a very interesting story....
the interesting thing to contrast is someone above saying that GM/chevy was not throwing unlimited funds at Bill Thomas to develop the cheetah...and it was built to beat the shelby cobra.
you contrast that to Ford and what they did w/ the gt40, i believe i just came to the part where they figured they had spent close to $6 million developing the GT40 and prepping them for races.
very early in the book it was stated: ford had nothing that could compete w/ the chevy corvette at the time and Henry Ford II was not happy b/c at the time chevy had 60% of the market share of sales. and they basically attributed it to the fact that the corvette was successful at the track and as a race car....interesting stuff to read...
So that car IMO will always be an Anglo-American hybrid of British design talent/craftsmanship and American $$$.
02-02-2015, 02:32 PM
#100
I remember Nickey ads in hot rodding magazines giving their (Chicago?) address for midwest and eastern customers, and Bill Thomas Race Cars' address and 'phone number for Western delivery of the Nickey 427 Camaro.