brookiez28

I'm looking at buying a 1965 Corvette in CA that does not have a VIN. The car was stolen in the early 1980s and the state of CA assigned an 11 digit "certificate of title" number. The current owners have had the car for 24 years. Does anyone know if the original VIN that is stamped on the car frame can be used on the new title? Or, why would the CA MVD not have used the original VIN and instead assign a certificate of title number when the VIN can be read off the frame?
Thanks.

5thvet

They are probably unaware and/or do not want to go to the trouble. Getting it off the frame is a little bit of work.

MikeM

It may also mean that the paper trail back to the manufacturer with the original VIN was broken for whatever reason and the state issued VIN starts a new link in a new chain.

Joel 67

It is no business of mine, but I would expect to buy at a substantial discount for a state issued VIN. To a lot of people, it is sort of like a non-original engine or a bogus or missing trim tag. It places a dark cloud above the car. For no good reason I might add, but that's just they way it is.

tommyn

Some states do a assigned vin number some do the original vin number. Illinois uses the original, Indiana uses the assigned. I find the debate of a salvage or theft recovery car is worth so much less when the history is known, when at times some cars are built from parts. Joel I think you saw the car on the NCRS board I am refering to? A car is only as good as it was built in my mind. Weather the factory built it or a guy in a garage built it. Have a professional inspect the car. If it's a good deal remember you drive the car NOT the vin # or title.

jcapps

If the original vin tag under the glove box is missing, they have no choice but to offer a new vin number in their own sequence.

Joel 67

Tommy,

Yes, I know the car you mention, and I agree that if known, the history of a car will discount it, even though most of these cars have been rebuilt to some degree or another over time.

Viking427

Each state had it's own internal procedures for processing recovered vehicles, but it usually involved removing the original VIN tag (unless the thief did that already) and affixing their own state "identification" tag. Some states used the same number as the original VIN on their reassigned tag, most didn't. These state reassigned tags were to allow a recovered vehicle to be titled and registered at DMV for road use again. The state tags are not affiliated with the cars original VIN tag and had various labels/names printed on them depending on the issuing state; "Dept. of Revenue", "Certificate of Title" etc. If it's a concern to you, the car can have it's rightful pedigree (repro of original VIN tag) returned with police assistance, but it helps a bit if the engine numbers match the frame number during their official inspection. Just search the archives with keyword "backeast" for more threads on the subject.

The National Automobile Theft Bureau (NATB) used to be the agency for many decades that tracked stolen & recovered vehicles until they were rolled into today's NICB agency. I assume they had (have ?) a way to note a VIN number in their database as stolen, recovered/processed and VIN cleared as ok to use again based on two facts; 1) Some issuing states used the car's original VIN on their own tag right from the beginning. 2) It is possible to restore a car with a repro OEM tag using the original VIN, and then title & register it for the road once again. If a previously stolen VIN was "flagged" forever in these databases, regardless if recovered or not, niether would be possible when someone tried titling/registering it for use again at any DMV.

philip964

The most valuable cars are generally the cars with no stories. I suspect a missing VIN, theft recovery, new VIN by state issue, would be a story.

I agree it is worth less, when this buyer goes to sell, he will get less so he should pay less now.

Qblue92

My car was stolen. It was used to run dope in the Southwest. Wheee! It wasn't ever scrapped for parts or wrecked. Just used without permission.
It has its vin plate right where it belongs and retains its identity. I wouldn't consider it worth less for that. A ton of these cars have been stolen.

C2Driver

Brian, if it was that sweet 60 of yours that was stolen, I give the thieves top marks for taste but low marks for intelligence. That thing would attract a lot of attention anywhere, including cops running it down for a second look!

- Pat

Jvmc

Personally it doesn't matter to me if the car has had a reassigned VIN # or not if it was what I was looking for.

However, here is a question to the forum. Would a '67 BB 427/435 be worth less if it had all of its doc's, was stolen at some point from the original owner, lets say in the mid '70's, recovered and properly identified by its owner, but the VIN was removed and reassigned a new VIN #? Not to me, but curious what others think.....

C2Driver

Jovi, given the choice of 2 identically priced '67 BB 427/435's, one with the VIN intact and one with a reassigned VIN, I would choose the former, simply because there's no hastle with judging or a possible resale. I would consider buying the latter at a lesser price. - Pat

Dick Whittington

State issued VIN tags are not a problem on the judging field. May raise a few eyebrows, but not a concern

Jvmc

Pat, I understand your position, but is the reassigned car really worth less, or is that what has been drilled into our heads by others? I guess it really comes down to what someone is willing to pay regardless of a reassigned VIN or not, but to me a VIN doesn't make the car....

philip964

A Corvette owner a year or so ago made a big deal of the thieft, hiding of the car in the desert and final recovery of his Corvette at a Russo and Steel auction, complete with photos etc. He made his "story" into exciting provenance for the car, and may have actually increased his final price.

Qblue92

Thanx. It was actually stolen in the early 80s when it was black. But still... its not a good car to try to fly under the radar!

C2Driver

You're right Brian, but it would have been flying through the radar in style! - Pat

62Jeff

Yeah, known these days as the Desert Rat, stolen right after it debuted at what was then the Corvette Expo here in Houston.

I remember when it debuted at Expo, and remember hearing about it being stolen right after, but didn't know it had been found until someone here on the forum pointed out the e-bay listing for the car sometime within the last year or so.

C2Driver

I agree Dick, but given the option described, which would you pick? I think that I know the answer. - Pat