n1kon

I know some folks have used C4/C5 suspension either with it grafted on the chassis or a completely new fabricated chassis. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with a highly modified "original" type set up. Basically what I am asking is for a comparison between a Street Shop/SRIII type chassis vs. An original mounted location chassis but has all of the goodies such as Bilstein shocks, tubular a-arms, modern springs, etc.

Assume both of the cars have the same wheel and tire setup. How would they compare?


Thanks

COPO

They don't

n1kon

Performance wise...would either on one have a performance advantage?

Oh yes, I quoted myself!

COPO

weight, camber gain, stiffer chassis using C4 suspension. C5/6 has more camber gain along with a lil better ride. the car in my avatar weighed in at 2714 with C4 suspension.

67-427ci

I cannot compare to an upgraded chassis and suspension, but I can attest to the difference a few upgrades can make to an original frame/suspension setup.

Several years ago I installed a TRW composite rear spring and Delco gas shocks, this summer I added the Jeep box power steering conversion (2 1/2 turns stop-to-stop). This winter I installed VB&P Box Tube Offset Upper A-Arms that allow up to 5 degrees positive caster.

These fairly simple changes have transformed my car in to a very nice driver that handles remarkably better than a stock setup.
Roy

John McGraw

My SRIII chassis with C5 front and C4 rear, is unlike any stock chassis Corvette I have ever driven. The car handles like a Go-cart and accelerates hard enough to peel your eyelids back! I would guess that a lot of it comes from the better geometry and lower unsprung weight of the late model suspension, but I am sure that a lot of it comes from the exceptionally rigid chassis.

I have yet to find the limits of cornering adhesion, as I always chicken out long before I run out of lateral traction, and the stock seats and seat belts really let you slide around inside the car a lot.
The only time I have ever lost traction in a turn, was when I intentionally hung the rear end out by applying lots of throttle in a turn. The car is extremely predictable, and is a blast to powerslide around curves. If it ever starts to come around too much, you can just back out of the throttle a little, and it will tuck the rear end right back in.

Regards, John McGraw

63Corvette

My 63 Z06 weighs 3050lbs, and is "competitive" in engine power and suspension with my vintage competitors like Cobras, E-Type Jags, Tigers, and Shelbys. I run Hoosiier Street TDs (biasply R compound tire) My fastest lap ever at Sears Point is a 1:58, but my average lap is around 2 min flat. My competition runs a little faster. The fastest guys are a 289 Cobra and a smallblock Corvette. Their fastest laps are around 1:52, and they average 1:54 to 1:56 laps. I also have an 04 Z06.
Street stock C5 Z06s can easily run that fast with street runflat tires. Prepared C6 Z06 Corvettes on R tires can run down in the high 1:30s range. Suspension and tires make all the difference.

Shurshot

I wish that I could believe that I could make my 66 frame and suspension do what the resto mods can do using the latest in technology and then be configured under a C2 body............ but I know better

I would love to have something weighing in like COPO's car does and handling how John McGraw speaks of his car. If I thought I could afford to build one without donating my car to the cause I would. Meanwhile I just say hats off to you who know how to drive and have accomplished the dream of a vintage style vette able to hang with the highest of performance 21st century cars.

However and for now there are improvements like Roy's or rear suspension setups like dragvette.com that are able to bring C2 handling a long ways from how they did when first introduced without breaking the bank.



Doug

CWerner

I've got the "old school Resto-Mod".

> Front suspension is VBP performance plus package (mono-spring, A-arms, etc)
> Rear....1982 C2 aluminum rearend with VBP Mono-spring.

The suspension handles great (hugs road, turns well), but I'm still not completely happy with the ride (a little rough & bouncy).

Things I would like to do is upgrade the steering to rack & pinion or to the Jeep box set-up. I'm also considering shock changes. I'm running Koni Classic adjustables on front and Delco gas on the back.

1coolC2

Ditto,
I was just blown away on how well my SRIII chassis car corners and rides. Like John, I have not pushed the car to the ragged edge yet but I can tell you it sticks like glue and is so managable in a drift by adding or taking power. It is not to say that you can't make HUGE gains by using the VBP suspension kits. My brother in law has the mack-daddy VBP kit on his 72 and the car handles GREAT. The ride is not nearly as nice as the resto mod C5/C4 set-up, but it is much more affordable.

The unsprung weight, better geometry, relocated hub locations and much better chassis design make the SRIII, Newman and Street shop chassis far superior to using the original rails. Now having said that, there are those guys who will still be able to drive around you with a prepared vintage rig....but that is sheer talent

R/
Jeff

Hitch

Jeff and John definitely have e-tickets to ride.. With that being said there is a LOT of money in both of those cars. On the street will it really make that big of a difference? I am not in a position to make that determination. However I'm sure that both of those cars have double what my car has $$$$ wise in it. I'd rather have two please.

I think that there are a few upgrades that can be done to these old midyears that have large benefits. Some of these I have done others I have not but are on the horizon eventually. If money were no object what John and Jeff have are what I would want though.

1. Composite rear spring
2. Coil overs in the front
3. Front shock tower spreader bar
4. Offset trailing arms for larger rear tires
5. 16" or 17" wheel and tires depending on YOUR preference
6. 5 OR 6 speed depending on your preference

I'm sure I've missed some other good ideas but what I have listed above is probably less than $10k in parts. The retro rods will cost at least $40k plus to create.. Maybe I'm off base...

I'm very happy with how my old car drives and rides. Could it be better..??? Sure. I guess it all depends on what you want.

Dave

silverslashstreak

The late model suspension and aftermarket frame are the way to go if money and time are no object, John and Jeff have built great cars that will out handle anything you can do with old technology.

Roy hit the nail on the head if you want to stay with the factory frame you can make it very stable and comfortable with a few inexpensive up grades. after over 35 years of improving my 63 this is my list of priorities.

1. The Jeep steering box 2.5 turns lock to lock
2. Upper control arms 4 to 5 degrees positive caster
3. Upper control arm tower spreader bar
4. TRW rear glass mono spring
5. High quality shocks
6. Rear sway bar
7. 17 inch wheels and tires, ride harder, hook up a little better

I will try to post a autocross video of the car. I think we ran 4th on the day out of over 100 vettes, mostly late models.

[IMG][/IMG]

Shurshot

Nice video SSS

I have made improvements but in my order of importance. Next on the list are offsets and a dual master cylinder. Unfortunately the offsets are going to require a new mono spring when the perfectly good one on now has only about 2000 miles on it.

I have not checked out the cost but dragvette.com has a nice six link that promises better parts longevity along with significant handling improvements......... and they come with the required half shaft safety hoops for cars running drag times fast enough to need them.

Check him out....... http://dragvette.com/

Doug

silverslashstreak

Doug I also like the drag vette 6 link, that mod has been around for years, some fellow did that about 10 years ago, but the price was in the 2000 dollar range and don't think it ever got off the ground. The only question I have is how does it reduce toe steer which I think is the biggest problem with the C2-3 chassis design.

Jeff

COPO

If some one was wanting to build a great handling C2. I would start with C5/6 suspension 5 spd tanker car. the weight of the tank moved in front of the rear wheels and a lower COG will change your mind of what a old car can do. Parts are available to do this with the tanker cover being made. Of couse dont use a glass tank...stainless is the way to go.

LouieM

Jeff,
How on earth do you get an upper control arm spreader bar into a C2? Do you have a pic?

Lou

jim lockwood

Garrett, what do you run for cold tire pressure in those Street TDs?

Thanks,
Jim