New York VIN title question...
05-02-2009, 07:49 PM
#1
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New York VIN title question...
I have a 1965 C2 I bought last year from a dealer in MO (I live in the Seattle area). When I got the title in the mail I quickly noticed the VIN did not seem to be original. The VIN on the title and sticker issued from NY DMV on drivers door sill is NY34943. It seems obvious that the car was reissued a new VIN. The title doesn't say anything about being a salvage title so why would NY issue a new VIN? Is there any way I can track down the original VIN and get that reissued on my title? Any information would e greatly appreciate. Thanks ...travis
05-02-2009, 09:36 PM
#2
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State-issued VINs are usually the result of the car having been stolen at some point and later recovered with the VIN plate missing; that doesn't generate a salvage title.
You'll have to work it out between the NY and WA DMV bureaucrats, but a derivative of the car's VIN is stamped on the top of the driver's side rear frame rail just above the rear shock upper mounting bracket (unless the frame has been changed). If the engine or transmission are original, each of them also has the VIN derivative stamped on them.
You'll have to work it out between the NY and WA DMV bureaucrats, but a derivative of the car's VIN is stamped on the top of the driver's side rear frame rail just above the rear shock upper mounting bracket (unless the frame has been changed). If the engine or transmission are original, each of them also has the VIN derivative stamped on them.
05-02-2009, 10:07 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
Under the glove box there is a small steel frame bar running horizontally. On the bar are two metal tags. They are rivited or welded flat to the frame bar.
One is the trim tag and the other is the VIN tag. The trim tag will tell you with some decoding what the orginal color of the car exterior and interior are. On your car the VIN tag may or may not be there. We assume it is not there, thus the reason for an assigned number.
The other location John Z has pointed out is the "secret" location. I understand you need a mirror to find it. Rust can make it a problem finding it.
Once you find this number, you may actually find you have a car with an original engine, which would make it more valuable.
The partial VIN is stamped on the engine pad on the passenger front side of the engine block just above the water pump. Having these two numbers match would indicate an orginal engine.
The term "matching numbers" refers to this condition. However, today the term "matching numbers" is thrown around very loosely and may only mean the numbers match and the engine is not orginal but has simply been restamped to mach the VIN number.
Good luck with your investigation.
One is the trim tag and the other is the VIN tag. The trim tag will tell you with some decoding what the orginal color of the car exterior and interior are. On your car the VIN tag may or may not be there. We assume it is not there, thus the reason for an assigned number.
The other location John Z has pointed out is the "secret" location. I understand you need a mirror to find it. Rust can make it a problem finding it.
Once you find this number, you may actually find you have a car with an original engine, which would make it more valuable.
The partial VIN is stamped on the engine pad on the passenger front side of the engine block just above the water pump. Having these two numbers match would indicate an orginal engine.
The term "matching numbers" refers to this condition. However, today the term "matching numbers" is thrown around very loosely and may only mean the numbers match and the engine is not orginal but has simply been restamped to mach the VIN number.
Good luck with your investigation.
05-02-2009, 10:15 PM
#4
Pro
Is there a vin tag under the glove compartment? Does it match your title? Even reserialed cars have to have a tag for identification.
If the vin on the frame and the engine match, that is PROBABLY, the original vin. Once you have that, you should find sombody who has a friend in law enforcement that can run a nationwide search for that vin. A common practice was to attach a good, meaning not reported as stolen, i.e. totalled, or abandoned, vin to a stolen car. A friend picked up an abandoned 427/400 69 for dirt many years ago. The story was that the owner got in trouble, fled to Florida, and sold his documentation to someone with a stolen 69. He parted the car out. Back in the day it didn't take much to total a vette. With current prices, even a totaled corvette would be worth fixing. Let's hope yours wasn't. Regardless, somebody may already be running around with your vin on their corvette. They may not even be aware of this, as most people do not check any further than the vin tag. At that point, things could get really interesting, for both of you. I don't know what you would do at that point, but at least you would not get blindsided. Then you could seek legal advice, before openning that can of worms. I hope this is not the case, but it is better to be prepared. Rich
If the vin on the frame and the engine match, that is PROBABLY, the original vin. Once you have that, you should find sombody who has a friend in law enforcement that can run a nationwide search for that vin. A common practice was to attach a good, meaning not reported as stolen, i.e. totalled, or abandoned, vin to a stolen car. A friend picked up an abandoned 427/400 69 for dirt many years ago. The story was that the owner got in trouble, fled to Florida, and sold his documentation to someone with a stolen 69. He parted the car out. Back in the day it didn't take much to total a vette. With current prices, even a totaled corvette would be worth fixing. Let's hope yours wasn't. Regardless, somebody may already be running around with your vin on their corvette. They may not even be aware of this, as most people do not check any further than the vin tag. At that point, things could get really interesting, for both of you. I don't know what you would do at that point, but at least you would not get blindsided. Then you could seek legal advice, before openning that can of worms. I hope this is not the case, but it is better to be prepared. Rich
Last edited by landshark 454; 05-02-2009 at 10:30 PM.
05-02-2009, 10:35 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
[ Then you could seek legal advice, before openning that can of worms. I hope this is not the case, but it is better to be prepared. Rich[/QUOTE]
My brother had bought a 1964 Corvette with a "questionable" title. I had a friend in law enforcement and he strongly suggested he sell the car. If it is stolen the last one with the "hot potato" loses the car and their money.. Be VERY careful you might find out some thing you might not want to know..
My brother had bought a 1964 Corvette with a "questionable" title. I had a friend in law enforcement and he strongly suggested he sell the car. If it is stolen the last one with the "hot potato" loses the car and their money.. Be VERY careful you might find out some thing you might not want to know..
05-03-2009, 12:16 AM
#6
Racer
I'll help guide you through the process of finding the frame VIN derivative stamp if it is still readable. It is a bit of a process but I can tell you how to find it and how to photograph it if you will email me at billygould@comcast.net. I can email a photo of my frame stamping. Bill Gould AutoAncestry
05-03-2009, 02:22 AM
#7
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OK, now the story is going to get a little more interesting. I’m retrorodding my Vette with an SRIII frame that I just ordered last week. I couldn’t afford to pay for the frame outright so (you probably guessed it) I sold my frame and running gear a few weeks ago on eBay to a guy in San Francisco. I had the frame sand blasted then painted with POR15 before I sold it. So even if I still had the frame, I doubt I would find any readable VIN.
I do however have a friend who is a WA State Patrol Officer. I’ll check with him to see if he can help me track down some information on the car. I’ll also make a call to the NY DMV next week and see what they can tell me. It’s not that big of a deal because I’m retrorodding the Vette, it would just have been nice to have had the original VIN for the car. Thanks for the comments, very helpful. I’ll update if I find any information ...travis
I do however have a friend who is a WA State Patrol Officer. I’ll check with him to see if he can help me track down some information on the car. I’ll also make a call to the NY DMV next week and see what they can tell me. It’s not that big of a deal because I’m retrorodding the Vette, it would just have been nice to have had the original VIN for the car. Thanks for the comments, very helpful. I’ll update if I find any information ...travis
05-03-2009, 07:28 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
If your building a rod out of it and replacing the frame and engine why care what Vin it has as long as it is legal and gets you plates and legally transferrerd to your name?
Good luck with the project. Many of us have used an SRIII frame and other in progress (Check out Herb - FirstGear's 63 Progress Report thread).
Good luck with the project. Many of us have used an SRIII frame and other in progress (Check out Herb - FirstGear's 63 Progress Report thread).
05-03-2009, 08:28 AM
#9
Race Director
You really have to think this thing through before you start digging for info. I can't speak for any other city but here in New York City you can't just have a VIN run as a favor for a friend any more. It can an will come back to the Police Officer who runs it. If something turns out to be bad you could end up loosing the car. On top of that you want to avoid having to deal with NY DMV with anything other than plates and a registration or a driver's licence (ask me how I know
). It may be best to leave well enough alone especially since you're building a hot rod.
05-04-2009, 12:05 AM
#10
Pro
You really have to think this thing through before you start digging for info. I can't speak for any other city but here in New York City you can't just have a VIN run as a favor for a friend any more. It can an will come back to the Police Officer who runs it. If something turns out to be bad you could end up loosing the car. On top of that you want to avoid having to deal with NY DMV with anything other than plates and a registration or a driver's licence (ask me how I know
). It may be best to leave well enough alone especially since you're building a hot rod.
