70mph@2200rpm

OK, thanks for all the help in my earlier thread today regarding trouble shooting the starter problem. It's the starter.
I took the ignition switch out and decided to hot wire the car using wire jumpers at the ignition switch socket.
There are 5 pins on the switch:
BAT
IGN
BOL
ACC
GRD...no wire connected at the socket for this pin

I jumped the BAT to BOL, then jumped the BAT to the IGN...starter engaged without any problems but the car would not start (the cold motor always starts in a split second). Just prior to trying this, I accidentally touched the hot BAT wire to the parking brake handle, which caused a spark. I checked the hot wire with my light tester and it was still hot. Anyway, after more failed attempts to start the car, I added a jumper from BAT to the ACC and the radio came on, which made me realize that I wasn't getting juice to it with just the jumper to BOL.
So at that, I decided to run a wire from the POS side of the battery directly to the + side of the ignition coil. Now when I jumped the BAT to the IGN the car started up immediately and ran fine. After a couple of minutes I decided to turn the engine off. As I reached over to pull the wire off of the coil, I noticed smoke rising from the ballast resistor.
So what do I do at this point?
By the way, I took the ignition switch apart, which is very simple, with only a copper plate and 3 springs. It looked perfectly OK, no cracks or broken/loose pieces. I cleaned it up and reinstalled it but it still had the same problem: starter engages in ON position.

magicv8

jumping BATtery to SOLenoid should engage the starter and start the engine, since the starter solenoid has a 12volt supply wire that goes to the ignition coil.

that should keep the coil supplied through the ballast resistor and allow the engine to keep running after you release the key from start position or take the jumper off the SOLenoid line

The SOLenoid connector should only power the starter solenoid

That will supply 12volts to the ignition coil all the time - as the starter solenoid should - bypassing the IGNition line from the key switch through the ballast resistor

I suspect the IGNition (pink) wire to the ballast resistor is shorted to ground. Disconnect the pink wire to the ballast resistor from the key switch and put an ohm meter on the wire to see if it is grounded (zero ohms).

70mph@2200rpm

magicy8..

In case you are not aware of the previous 24 hrs. history of this problem, please have a look:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...not-start.html

70mph@2200rpm

magicv8...
please respond in this thread only, as i feel like I'm hijacking Mike's thread.

Thanks for the schematic. I have one in the book, yours iis easier to read, but only half of the drawing comes up...(65coupe with air and auto).
Also, i have the DocRebuilds OSOEZ diagrams.
Yes, I see that pink wire...I will investigate it as you recommended...

70mph@2200rpm

magicv8...
"The starter should engage when BAT is jumped to SOL"

No, it does not. Only when jumped to IGN. This situation only occured after the sound barrier/ carpet project was completed. But none of the ignition wires, except for the neutral safety switch wire, runs along the floor, so I guess there is nothing that the installer did that could have caused this problem.
As I stated in my first thread last night, the first symptom was that there was nothing happening when the key was first turned to START. Only after trying it a dozen times did it finally engage the starter, but then that turned out to be engaging the starter in the ON position.
And that's how it all started last night.

Geek's 65

Think you found your problem. The neutral safety switch. Not having an automatic I am not certain but doesn't that keep you from starting the car if it's not in Neutral or Park? Magic8 is right that if you put the 12V to SOL it should engage the starter UNLESS the safety switch is stopping it by cutting it out. Check that bad boy out and I'll bet you get your starter back.

70mph@2200rpm

Yes, it seems like that could be it, but there's another syptom that negates that possibility. The starter wants to engage in the key ON position. I removed the switch thinking that I could jump start the motor right from the switch socket, but I still get the starter engaging when my wire jumpes from BAT to IGN. So it's not the ignition switch, nor the N.S. switch that's causing this syptom, as far as I understand it. But I don't have the answer.

magicv8

If you have been "working" on the starter wiring, it is possible the wires on the starter solenoid are reversed - or - fried in the harness between the key switch and the starter.

disconnect the plug connection of the purple wire approximately above the distributor as it goes from the RH bulkhead plug to the starter. If you have an automatic, this is where the neutral safety switch is introduced, and there are two plugs. In that case disconnect both plugs, or the plug on the purple wire to the starter. Connecting a battery jumper to the end of the purple wire connector that goes to the starter should engage the starter and (if the pink 12volt wire from the "i" solenoid terminal to the coil is still intact) start the engine until the solenoid jumper is released. If that works, the starter side of the harness is intact and wired correctly - and the problem is elsewhere.

JohnZ

The ONLY way the starter will engage is if there's 12 volts to the purple wire that goes to the "S" terminal on the solenoid (from the "SOL" terminal on the back of the ignition switch). The only way the "S" terminal can get power with the key in the ON position is either an ignition switch internal contact failure or some contact in the harness between the pink ignition wire to the bottom of the ballast resistor and the purple wire to the solenoid.

Put your test light probe on the "SOL" terminal in the ignition switch connector and turn the key to "ON" - if you have power, the switch is defective.

magicv8

or - the wiring harness is fried between the key switch and the starter solenoid

BTW - if your browser has trouble diplaying the wiring diagram on my website, you can use the right mouse button pulldown menu "save picture as" to put a copy on your computer and then open it with a photo editor. It can also be customized using a photo editor.

70mph@2200rpm

I bench tested the ignition switch yesterday as you just described, and the SOL only lit up the test light when I turned the key to the START position. So I assume that the ignition switch is OK.

What cofuses me is the initial syptom of the key to START position doing absolutely nothing, for the first half dozen times, then followed by the starter engaging in the key ON position.

Geek's 65

How about if the solenoid is hooked up backwards. If the Black with pink stripe was hooked to the solenoid on the S term and the purple was hooked to the R terminal, then when you tried to start the car and the key was in the ON position the solenoid would be trying to get power through the ballast resistor which would be acting as a current limiter being grounded through the coil. When you jump it direct you may be making a better connection between power and the IGN wire than the switch does. Long shot but electrically feasible. How does the neutral safety switch wire in ?

G

70mph@2200rpm

That's what 's so confounding; the only work to the car was the carpet replacement. How could the wires get "hooked up backwards" if they weren't being worked on? I dunno.

magicv8

That's one of the reasons why I suspect the harness is fried.

The other is the smoke at the ballast resistor when you jumped a 12volt line to it. The car is old enough to smoke, but it's not good for it.

70mph@2200rpm

I'm heading over there now to resume the trouble shooting. I won't be back to the computer for at least 3 hours, or so...thanks to everyone.

70mph@2200rpm

With the steady help of magicv8, I was able to finally get the motor running. Apparently, when the transmission guy repalced the powerglide 6 months ago with the 700R4, he made some modifications to the wiring, probably because we no longer had a N.S. switch. The carpet installer must have interferred with the wires from the tranny, which is what started the problem. That just added to the confusion as to what went wrong and how to make the correct fix..
The ignition system is now on the road to recovery. I will have to get my backup lights working again, and an "extra" wire hooked up to the ballast resistor was removed, as suggested by magicv8, which turned out to power the radio.
All in all it was a 2 day slug fest that finally turned out OK. Thanks to Geek's 65 and JohnZ for their input, and esp. to Dave for his magic.