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FAST self-tuning EZ-EFI

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Old 10-05-2010, 08:00 PM
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Larry N. Johnson
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Default FAST self-tuning EZ-EFI

This looks promising; anyone try it yet?
Web info here.

While you could spend a lifetime learning how to tune a carburetor, getting a car running reasonably well with one can be as simple as picking the right carb and bolting it on. Not so with fuel injection – switching a classic musclecar from carburetion to EFI is at task best left to the experts and their laptops. Or at least it was, before FAST introduced their new EZ EFI system. Now, practically anyone can experience the benefits of better gas mileage and drivability that come with fuel injection, without all the headaches. Thanks to the FAST EZ EFI’s self-tuning technology, converting a carbureted car to fuel injection, and more importantly getting it to run like you want it to, has never been easier.

EFI to Carb and Back Again

Our test mule, the “Riced Rat Rod”, is a Nissan 240SX that’s been an experimental subject on many different fronts, though it has always been powered by a carbureted 400ci small block Chevy since we started messing with it. The 240SX is a light, Tremec TKO-600-equipped vehicle that makes 425 HP to the rear wheels. Since it sees a lot of driving on the street, we figured the EZ EFI could help make this moderately-cammed Chevy a little more livable in daily driving. It seems a bit ironic that we took a factory fuel injected car to a carburetor, and then back to fuel injection, but it makes perfect sense in this case.

Along with the EZ EFI we installed a complete ignition system from Mallory. Though the EZ EFI doesn’t require an aftermarket ignition – even a stock-style distributor will work – we took the opportunity to upgrade in this area as well. We opted for the EZ EFI Master Kit that includes a fuel pump, filter, lines, fittings, wiring harness, regulator, and fuel pressure gauge. Again, you don’t need the master kit to use the EZ EFI (though it makes the installation much easier than sourcing the individual parts) but you do need a return-style high pressure fuel system – the low pressure carbureted counterpart won’t cut it.


Here's our carbureted 400ci small block Chevy before the EZ EFI swap.

The first part is getting the new FAST throttle body installed. It utilizes all the same mounting points as a 4150-style 4-barrel carburetor, so even the throttle return spring is a direct fit. All of the electrical connections are labeled, and the majority of them plug directly into the throttle body. The wide-band O2 sensor that allows the EZ EFI system to tune itself goes in the header collector, but since we already had the FAST Budget Wide Band system installed (which uses the same kind of sensor) we only had to plug the EFI connector in. The other external sensor is for coolant temperature, which we installed in the intake manifold next to the water neck and opposite of our Auto Meter water temperature sensor.


The FAST throttle body bolts on just like a carburetor, though the wiring harness for the injectors, throttle position sensor, and intake air temperature sensor has to be plugged in as well. External connections for power, coolant temperature, the wideband O2 sensor, and RPM signal complete the wiring for the EZ EFI system.

The wiring is extremely simple. Heavy-gauge black and red wires for power and ground must be routed directly to the battery to avoid any electrical noise problems. As we said before, the Master Kit includes a plug-and-play fuel pump relay harness that snaps into place and only requires a power wire connected to the fuel pump. The RPM input is one of the most important sensors and hooks directly to your ignition box output, or there is a signal converter for HEI-equipped vehicles included with the kit. All that is left is the serial cable plug for the display, the display power connection, and a wire to a 12 volt switched source that will turn the ECU on. There are also ground circuit provisions for A/C-equipped cars to raise your idle speed when the compressor is running, and an electric fan control with an adjustable activation temperature controlled by the ECU.
I am thinking that this EFI might work good on a BB, if it would fit under the hood of a 65 396 car.

Any ideas on this system?
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Old 10-05-2010, 09:05 PM
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AZDoug
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It is very bolt on, but somewhat of an electric carburettor.

i would investigate a direct port FI system that has the injectors on each manifold runner spraying right into the intake port of the head.

The brain for the system you are referencing may, or may not, be suitable for true timed sequential EFI that has a manifold as I described above.

In theory, self learning EFI should be fairly simple to make, but I am not a computer programmer,and probably don't understand the difficulties, which is probably why a real simple system doesn't exist yet, that will set fuel pulses completely off AFRs and adjust timing as needed to avoid detonation or surge, yet optimize part throttle fuel economy based on sensor feedback.

Doug
Old 10-05-2010, 09:58 PM
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Larry N. Johnson
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Doug,

Thanks for the comments. This one is simple and the test results look very good. In addition, a major GM Crate engine supplier supplies it installed. Jegs and Summit sell the system as well.

It looks like a carb for the "vintage look", but uses online Air/Fuel ratio to deliver (not over-deliver) fuel. Very tempting system. I would bet mpg would be better than a Holley carb as well.

I guess we need a pioneer.
Old 10-05-2010, 10:52 PM
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i thought about playing with one but about the only benefits i think would be the elimination fuel perc and easier cold starting since i dont run a choke
i suppose my bb would get somewhat better mileage, but i really don't care
it only took a few test runs (drives) to dial in my holly street hp dp 750
those are the only benefits i can think of since it is not a direct port system as azdoug points out.....it relies on the plenum for a combination of fuel AND air just like a carb
the direct port system relies on the plenum ONLY for air unlike a carb
of course, there are those who put an occasional extra injector in the air stream too!!...hehe......

Last edited by midyearvette; 10-05-2010 at 10:55 PM.
Old 10-06-2010, 12:08 AM
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Larry N. Johnson
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Default Mass Flo EFI System

Frank,
I hear you and Doug on the "direct port" concept.

There is one called Mass Flo EFI that is more complex.

Chevrolet Big Block EFI System for the 427, 454, 502 and Other Chevrolet Big Block Engines



System includes:
•Four barrel single plane Edelbrock Victor Jr intake manifold.


•Our own custom 1000 CFM 4 bbl throttle body. It features all aluminum and stainless steel construction, sealed ball bearings on the throttle shafts, and progressive linkage. Comes complete with idle control motor and throttle position sensor. This is absolutely the finest 4 bbl throttle body on the market!


•Jumbo fuel rails and mounts. Rails have 9/16" diameter bores providing excellent flow and dampening characteristics.


•Our custom compact high flow patented mass air meter. The air meter is concealed within the air cleaner of your choice to maintain the vintage look! Systems are also available with our patented Pro-M mass air meters for draw through or blow through application.


•Complete production quality wiring harness. This stand alone high quality harness allows easy installation of our EFI system into any vehicle without connecting to your existing harness. For ease of installation each harness connector is individually labeled.


•Production mass air sequential electronic fuel injection computer.


•Eight high quality fuel injectors, sized to your application. The injectors are sized to allow ample room for large increases in horsepower. These fuel injectors are held to much closer tolerance than typical production injectors.


•All needed sensors. Most of the sensors are mounted right on the injection system for a simple install. No crank sensor to complicate the process!


•High performance billet aluminum distributor complete with ignition module, rotor and cap. Our entire ignition system is contained within the distributor and ECM. Just install the distributor and plug it into the harness. No spark boxes needed. However, after market capacitive discharge ignition systems, boost retard systems, nitrous control systems, rev limiters and shift lights can all easily be added.


•High performance coil featuring faster rise time and increased spark duration for increased performance. This coil comes with heat sink and mounting bracket.


•Throttle body base gasket, throttle cable bracket, assorted hardware and fittings and detailed instructions for a simple turn key installation.
All of these components are absolutely the best quality available. Unlike the competition, we will never sell you something that is "good enough" just because it costs less to produce.


These systems measure the mass air flow, rather than calculate the flow.

More money, but maybe worth it?

In either case an electric fuel pump is required for the higher pressure needed.
Old 10-06-2010, 12:15 AM
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Larry N. Johnson
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Here is what Mass Flo EFI says:
Why Our System?
. . . Here's why!

Don't settle for empty promises, GET REAL RESULTS! The other companies make it sound as if it's a benefit to have the ability to "tune" their systems. It's NOT a benefit... IT'S A HASSLE! The reality is, programmable speed density EFI systems are not much more efficient than a 4 bbl carburetor. You're punching keys on a computer, rather than turning screws and changing jets and springs in a carburetor. The end result is an expensive system, that cost almost as much money to get tuned properly as the initial cost of the system. And where is the advantage? They require constant laptop fiddling to keep running properly. You could have gotten that with a carburetor! They are a little more efficient than a carburetor, but not enough to justify the cost. The only thing worse than a programmable speed density system, (besides a carburetor), is a NON-programmable speed density system. Non-programmable speed density systems only work on bone stock or specific applications. Non-programmable (or non user-programmable) systems are factory calibrated to a specific engine, with a specific combination of parts. They have no provision to account for variances such as engine modifications (even minor ones!), vehicle specifics, or atmospheric conditions. The result is, they just do not work very well.

The latest thing being offered by the competition is the "self tuning" speed density EFI system. They claim that their system will tune itself while driving. This is very misleading. These systems DO need to be programmed by the installer, so don't be fooled by their careful use of words. They are far from "self tuning". These systems require you to tell the computer what air/fuel ratio you want under any certain set of circumstances. Keep in mind that the real benefit of a good EFI system is all the knowledge that you buy with it. Our computer comes with all the programing done for you. With our system, you get the benefit of thousands of man hours spent by the OEM fine tuning the processor. It is simply not practical for you, or a dyno shop, to even attempt to duplicate the expertise you get pre-programmed into our processor. Even if you spent months attempting to perfect your tune with one of the "self tuning" systems, it still would not nearly compare to what we give you with our system. Quite honestly, if you're thinking about buying one of the other EFI systems, just save your money and buy a carburetor. Their "self tuning" systems do not offer enough benefit to justify the cost.

In addition, many of the competitors EFI systems are "throttle body" systems. While these may offer some ease of installation, the benefits over a carburetor are minimal. Throttle body systems are not nearly as efficient as our Sequential Port Fuel Injection system. For more information on throttle body vs. port CFI, please see our Q&A page.

Our MASS AIR system does it all for you, and provides REAL PERFORMANCE BENEFITS over a carburetor or speed density system. It is by far the most user-friendly and most effective aftermarket fuel injection system on the market. Get improved power and torque as well as improved fuel economy, performance and reliability. Unlike programmable speed density systems, you will never need to tune this system. No laptop, no hand-held programmer, no tuning or tweeking, no dyno! This saves you the hassle and expense of tuning and trips to the dyno. When it comes time to make further engine mods, chances are you will not need to change a thing on our system. If you plan to make LARGE gains in horsepower, and you need to change your injector size, just return the computer, and we will recalibrate it for you, rather than retuning, reprogramming, and more trips to the dyno. Our system is even easier to use than a carburetor. You need to tune a carburetor. With our system, you just install it, and you're done!
Old 10-06-2010, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry N. Johnson
Frank,
I hear you and Doug on the "direct port" concept.

There is one called Mass Flo EFI that is more complex.



These systems measure the mass air flow, rather than calculate the flow.

More money, but maybe worth it?

In either case an electric fuel pump is required for the higher pressure needed.
That looks a lot like my custom built setup, of course mine is 5 years old, I guess it is a production item now, and the price is cheaper, and mine is SD....

The MAF is probably a better choice than SD, and now that someone has a MAF meter that will flow some real CFM, there is probably no need to go SD, unless all you are doing is WOT runs all the time, in which case, the SD typically does a better job.

When I built my system, there was no MAF meter available for a large inch small block with single plane manifold T body, and the typical GM TPI systems wouldn't support that kind of air flow.

If your MAF does all the calculating, all you need to tune is timing at various RPMs and MAPS.

Doug
Old 10-06-2010, 02:12 AM
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BTW, make sure the MAF system will fit under your hood.

My SB with Vic Jr and MSD T body does, but there is no MAF meter on top of the T body,and I had to work a lot to get a non restrictive air induction system that did fit under the stock hood on my '61.

Using a drop base air cleaner base, and mashing the top of the chrome cover cone a bit in a hydraulic press, I was able to fit a 3" tall air filter element under the hood with about 3/16" to spare.

Doug

Old 10-06-2010, 07:21 AM
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i've had my Accel system for several years and i'm still tuning.... i have put together a number of tunes that work, but i'm still not sure what the 'right' one is.....

yes, i know i need to put it on a chassis dyno but i haven't got around to it yet (and, finding someone that i have confidence in tuning my hybrid system is a BIG factor).

what i'm playing with now is trying to find the right balance between timing and AFR. more timing and more fuel works, but mpg goes to heck...
Bill
Old 10-06-2010, 08:27 AM
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I recently installed the Holley Dominator EFI system on my 555" motor. We tested it on the dyno back to back. I can tell you that tuning took about 10 minutes to get it to where I had spent years getting my Dominator carb to. And the carb did very well! I pulled it off the dyno, dropped it in the car and literally fired it up without even driving it around the block and took off on a 2500 mile road trip. The system self tuned fine and the response and driveability is great. Since then I've done a little manual tuning to dial in light throttle cruise for fuel mileage. So far it's over 16MPG and my car has no O/D...and still runs 9's@142+mph. Hopefully better when I get to the track soon in the cool weather.

The system I have is very similar to their regular Avenger setup that uses a normal 4150 sized throttle body instead of the Dominator size and comes with base tunes installed already too. They do have a throttle body type like you been looking at..but the multiports allow a lot of improvements.

JIM

Old 10-06-2010, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 427Hotrod
I recently installed the Holley Dominator EFI system on my 555" motor. We tested it on the dyno back to back. I can tell you that tuning took about 10 minutes to get it to where I had spent years getting my Dominator carb to. And the carb did very well! I pulled it off the dyno, dropped it in the car and literally fired it up without even driving it around the block and took off on a 2500 mile road trip. The system self tuned fine and the response and driveability is great. Since then I've done a little manual tuning to dial in light throttle cruise for fuel mileage. So far it's over 16MPG and my car has no O/D...and still runs 9's@142+mph. Hopefully better when I get to the track soon in the cool weather.

The system I have is very similar to their regular Avenger setup that uses a normal 4150 sized throttle body instead of the Dominator size and comes with base tunes installed already too. They do have a throttle body type like you been looking at..but the multiports allow a lot of improvements.

JIM

Jim:

I have been looking at the Dominator system for my 572 and would like to ask you a few questions.

1. Did you buy a complete system (computer, throttle body, intake manifold, injectors, etc) from Holley? Primarily interested in the intake manifold. Is your engine a standard or tall deck?

2. What is the flow rate on your throttle body? Did you go with the smaller throttle body for driveability reasons?

3. Are you running the Holley waste spark DIS ignition system?

4. Did you use one of the Holley supplied base tunes? Did you do much tweaking to the spark tables?

Charles
Old 10-06-2010, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry N. Johnson
I guess we need a pioneer.
There are already millions of them out there - that's really no different than the TBI system that was on most GM cars in the 80's.
Old 10-06-2010, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnZ
There are already millions of them out there - that's really no different than the TBI system that was on most GM cars in the 80's.
So, John, what's your take. TBI work as well as a Holley Carb?
The other system, the Mass Flo EFI, is also a copy of the newer cars port injection and does indeed work well.

It's the TBI that I question. Any other's comment?
Old 10-06-2010, 02:23 PM
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.....would seriously like to take a look at Jim's car. That's a great setup. One of the Saturday night regulars at Otto's (Stafford) has a kit car AC Cobra with the same system. Runs really well even though it's a relatively small motor with a nasty cam.


Yes, the multiports allow a lot of improvements. The biggest one is esentially zero variation in A/F ratio between cylinders, no matter what fuel you use. It is safe to use aviation gasoline with multiport EFI without worrying about some cylinders going lean.

Last edited by Avispa; 10-06-2010 at 02:25 PM.
Old 10-06-2010, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Avispa
.....would seriously like to take a look at Jim's car. That's a great setup. One of the Saturday night regulars at Otto's (Stafford) has a kit car AC Cobra with the same system. Runs really well even though it's a relatively small motor with a nasty cam.
hood clearance issues??
Old 10-06-2010, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by midyearvette
hood clearance issues??
If you mean the Massa Flo, yes good question.
I might call them today later or tomorrow.
Old 10-06-2010, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry N. Johnson
So, John, what's your take. TBI work as well as a Holley Carb?
The TBI will improve mixture/AF control vs. the carb, but it still has distribution issues due to the wet manifold and flow path inefficiencies, and it's not sequential. TPI puts exactly the same amount of fuel in each intake port, sequentially, and all the manifold has to deal with is air.

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Old 10-06-2010, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnZ
The TBI will improve mixture/AF control vs. the carb, but it still has distribution issues due to the wet manifold and flow path inefficiencies, and it's not sequential. TPI puts exactly the same amount of fuel in each intake port, sequentially, and all the manifold has to deal with is air.
JohnZ,
Thanks. I like your logic. Makes it clear why the port injection (TPI) is more efficient.

LNJ
Old 10-06-2010, 04:38 PM
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Default Mass Flo EFI Hood Clearance

Originally Posted by Larry N. Johnson
If you mean the Massa Flo, yes good question. (on hood clearance)
I might call them today later or tomorrow.
I just got off the phone w Mass Flo EFI. Here is what I learned:

1. A Holley Carb is typically 3 3/8" tall, measuring from intake to air cleaner.

2. A GM Quadrajet is typically 4 1/2" tall.

3. The Mass Flo EFI including the MAF sensor is only 2" tall.
(The extra height allows a taller air filter w Mass Flo EFI if desired.)

4. The manifold that Mass Flo EFI would use on a BB Chev is typically a Edebroch Torker.
Edelbrock's Torker II intake manifolds feature a single-plane, low-rise design that can give you top-end horsepower without affecting the mid-range. What Edelbrock did was increase the plenum volume and alter the short-side radius of the runners, to give the air/fuel charge a straight shot at the intake valves. That straight shot produces a potent power build from 2,500 to 6,500 rpm.
5. This manifold should present no height issues for our C1 and C2 hoods.
Old 10-06-2010, 06:29 PM
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I'm following this thread.....

Been interested in the MassFlo system for my 65 since I first saw it. I can't say I have an issue with my 850 Demon but it would be nice sometimes to have the function of a choke and better mileage is a plus. And if it ran even better well that would be a winner but I have been afraid to invest the money and time.....Hope someone gives it a shot and maybe can compare it reasonable well to the good old carb and say it was worth the investment.


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