Aoto crossed the '61 today.
04-16-2011, 03:21 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Aoto crossed the '61 today.
Didn't do too bad even amongst all the C6 and C5 cars there.
The best cars were running 38-39 seconds, I made three runs with a best time of 43.x seconds, which is about in the middle of what most of the later Corvettes were running.
I found the car handled remarkable well. I was afraid it was going to snap oversteer, but under throttle it did nice four wheel drifts, with a tendency towards oversteer. Under decel/neutral, it tended to go into a predictable but definite oversteer, easily corrected by throttle application.
I am going to disconnect the rear sway bar, that should make the car more neutral.
The car cornered fairly flat, no significant body roll.
As far as my setup, I was running M/T Street radials at 35-36 PSIG, 28X10X15 on the rear, 28X8X15 in front.
Front suspension and sway bar is stock, I do have the heavy duty 1959 type springs up front.
The rear has 5 1/2 leaf springs in back with South Side machine lift bars, factory sway bar (relocated), and the radius rods removed, and adjustable Koni shocks in back.
A local Corvette internet forum rented the skid pad at Firebird Int'l raceway for the day, so this was the perfect opportunity to see what the car did.
Overall, I was pleased. I could have run more, but I didn't want to thrash the car too much, being 50 years old. I could have possibly gotten another second or two off my time, but it would have had to be from technique, as the car had reached its limits of adhesion, as I could hear all four tires screaming, most of the time.
The big 427 SB with it massive low end torque, made throttle steer,and straight run acceleration, a snap.
Doug
The best cars were running 38-39 seconds, I made three runs with a best time of 43.x seconds, which is about in the middle of what most of the later Corvettes were running.
I found the car handled remarkable well. I was afraid it was going to snap oversteer, but under throttle it did nice four wheel drifts, with a tendency towards oversteer. Under decel/neutral, it tended to go into a predictable but definite oversteer, easily corrected by throttle application.
I am going to disconnect the rear sway bar, that should make the car more neutral.
The car cornered fairly flat, no significant body roll.
As far as my setup, I was running M/T Street radials at 35-36 PSIG, 28X10X15 on the rear, 28X8X15 in front.
Front suspension and sway bar is stock, I do have the heavy duty 1959 type springs up front.
The rear has 5 1/2 leaf springs in back with South Side machine lift bars, factory sway bar (relocated), and the radius rods removed, and adjustable Koni shocks in back.
A local Corvette internet forum rented the skid pad at Firebird Int'l raceway for the day, so this was the perfect opportunity to see what the car did.
Overall, I was pleased. I could have run more, but I didn't want to thrash the car too much, being 50 years old. I could have possibly gotten another second or two off my time, but it would have had to be from technique, as the car had reached its limits of adhesion, as I could hear all four tires screaming, most of the time.
The big 427 SB with it massive low end torque, made throttle steer,and straight run acceleration, a snap.
Doug
Last edited by AZDoug; 04-16-2011 at 03:24 PM.
04-16-2011, 05:34 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
What about all that talk about C1s handling and driving like a buckboard wagon? Guess with a little effort they can run with the best of them. Maybe all those old Corvette ads about great handling were not so far off the page as some would have us think?
04-16-2011, 05:58 PM
#4
Race Director
Thread Starter
I suspect my much lower weight, helped make up for the newer cars superior cornering ability. I didn't hear too many of the newer cars doing drifts, or at least their tires weren't making any noise if they were. I was at the limit, they weren't.
And of course modern tires vs the original type narrow bias ply tires. The higher air pressure made the tires a little less sticky to the asphalt, also. I probably could have run less air pressure due to my taller sidewalls compared to the rubber band tires on the new cars.
I was somewhat conservative by going wide thru the slalom parts so that I didn't take out any cones. I probably looked like I was out of control, half the time, but I wasn't
It was a bunch of fun, but that the car what was made for.
Doug
Doug
And of course modern tires vs the original type narrow bias ply tires. The higher air pressure made the tires a little less sticky to the asphalt, also. I probably could have run less air pressure due to my taller sidewalls compared to the rubber band tires on the new cars.
I was somewhat conservative by going wide thru the slalom parts so that I didn't take out any cones. I probably looked like I was out of control, half the time, but I wasn't
It was a bunch of fun, but that the car what was made for.
Doug
Doug
04-16-2011, 06:00 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Didn't do too bad even amongst all the C6 and C5 cars there.
The best cars were running 38-39 seconds, I made three runs with a best time of 43.x seconds, which is about in the middle of what most of the later Corvettes were running.
I found the car handled remarkable well. I was afraid it was going to snap oversteer, but under throttle it did nice four wheel drifts, with a tendency towards oversteer. Under decel/neutral, it tended to go into a predictable but definite oversteer, easily corrected by throttle application.
I am going to disconnect the rear sway bar, that should make the car more neutral.
The car cornered fairly flat, no significant body roll.
As far as my setup, I was running M/T Street radials at 35-36 PSIG, 28X10X15 on the rear, 28X8X15 in front.
Front suspension and sway bar is stock, I do have the heavy duty 1959 type springs up front.
The rear has 5 1/2 leaf springs in back with South Side machine lift bars, factory sway bar (relocated), and the radius rods removed, and adjustable Koni shocks in back.
A local Corvette internet forum rented the skid pad at Firebird Int'l raceway for the day, so this was the perfect opportunity to see what the car did.
Overall, I was pleased. I could have run more, but I didn't want to thrash the car too much, being 50 years old. I could have possibly gotten another second or two off my time, but it would have had to be from technique, as the car had reached its limits of adhesion, as I could hear all four tires screaming, most of the time.
The big 427 SB with it massive low end torque, made throttle steer,and straight run acceleration, a snap.
Doug
The best cars were running 38-39 seconds, I made three runs with a best time of 43.x seconds, which is about in the middle of what most of the later Corvettes were running.
I found the car handled remarkable well. I was afraid it was going to snap oversteer, but under throttle it did nice four wheel drifts, with a tendency towards oversteer. Under decel/neutral, it tended to go into a predictable but definite oversteer, easily corrected by throttle application.
I am going to disconnect the rear sway bar, that should make the car more neutral.
The car cornered fairly flat, no significant body roll.
As far as my setup, I was running M/T Street radials at 35-36 PSIG, 28X10X15 on the rear, 28X8X15 in front.
Front suspension and sway bar is stock, I do have the heavy duty 1959 type springs up front.
The rear has 5 1/2 leaf springs in back with South Side machine lift bars, factory sway bar (relocated), and the radius rods removed, and adjustable Koni shocks in back.
A local Corvette internet forum rented the skid pad at Firebird Int'l raceway for the day, so this was the perfect opportunity to see what the car did.
Overall, I was pleased. I could have run more, but I didn't want to thrash the car too much, being 50 years old. I could have possibly gotten another second or two off my time, but it would have had to be from technique, as the car had reached its limits of adhesion, as I could hear all four tires screaming, most of the time.
The big 427 SB with it massive low end torque, made throttle steer,and straight run acceleration, a snap.
Doug
Plus the car looks GREAT
04-16-2011, 06:34 PM
#8
Race Director
Thread Starter
One car on the course at a time, especially since they had a figure 8 crossover setup on part of it.
Maybe someone there took a pic, if so, they will probably post it on the local forum, if so, I will copy it and post it here.
Doug
04-16-2011, 06:58 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Well done Doug you are a real boy racer ! I bet some people didn't think your 61 would be matching some of the newer stuff. Not sure I would Auto cross my C1 hats off to you. Stewy
04-17-2011, 02:53 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
I autocross the '60 a couple of times a year; Vettes on the Rockies in Breckenridge and Corvette Weekend in Eureka Springs, Arkansas. Lots of fun. The TPI is a big advantage over the carburetted cars, and that forces me to run in the modified FI class at Breckenridge. I don't win anything there. Still fun, though.
Oh yeah, the wife does the autocross too. That's her in the picture, waiting in line at Eureka Springs.
1
60
Oh yeah, the wife does the autocross too. That's her in the picture, waiting in line at Eureka Springs.
1
60
04-17-2011, 07:20 AM
#11
Team Owner
That's pretty incredible....I autocrossed my '66 Mustang Fastback a few times in the '80s and even after making all of the Shelby modifications to the chassis/suspension it was dogmeat against the other, modern cars. And, I was aggressive enough to break off an upper arm control bolt in one run so it wasn't like I was babying the car.
04-17-2011, 09:09 AM
#12
Race Director
Way to go!
It must have been something to see. Even in the 80's, people were amazed to see me autocrossing a 62 (though they didn't think anything of a "bathtub" Porsche, or a Bugeye Sprite being out there
). I can imagine that more than a few people were surprised to see a 61, running an autocross today!
I use to love to autocross my 62. I always ended up in a class with Porsche 914s and BMW 2002s.
I could hold my own, if it was a fast open course, but forget it on short tight ones.
I always found the steering wheel to be a problem. With the big stock wheel, there just isn't much room in those cars. With a small wheel, you have more room to "work", but you lose the leverage needed to steer the thing well. Especially if your using the factory fast steering adapter, which I was.
The shot below is from when I first started autocrossing it, around 1978. I was still running bias ply's and 6" wide rims on it. I later went to 7 inch wheels with radials, different shocks and some other mods. I was eventually able to eliminate some of the lean and plowing, but I could never really get it to a "neutral" state.
It must have been something to see. Even in the 80's, people were amazed to see me autocrossing a 62 (though they didn't think anything of a "bathtub" Porsche, or a Bugeye Sprite being out there
). I can imagine that more than a few people were surprised to see a 61, running an autocross today!I use to love to autocross my 62. I always ended up in a class with Porsche 914s and BMW 2002s.
I could hold my own, if it was a fast open course, but forget it on short tight ones. I always found the steering wheel to be a problem. With the big stock wheel, there just isn't much room in those cars. With a small wheel, you have more room to "work", but you lose the leverage needed to steer the thing well. Especially if your using the factory fast steering adapter, which I was.
The shot below is from when I first started autocrossing it, around 1978. I was still running bias ply's and 6" wide rims on it. I later went to 7 inch wheels with radials, different shocks and some other mods. I was eventually able to eliminate some of the lean and plowing, but I could never really get it to a "neutral" state.
Last edited by gbvette62; 04-17-2011 at 09:11 AM.
04-17-2011, 04:19 PM
#13
Race Director
Thread Starter
I saw the final best times posted, after everybody got used to the course sometime after I left, the best times were down in the low 30 second range with the average best times at about 36 seconds. I doubt i could have gotten under 40 seconds, even if I made 20 or 30 runs like some of the people did. My best was 43.3 after 3 runs.
If I wanted fast AutoX times, I would get a souped up Miata.
Doug
If I wanted fast AutoX times, I would get a souped up Miata.
Doug
04-17-2011, 04:53 PM
#14
Team Owner
Do you have stock carb(s)? I drove my '61 car pretty fast around the Sebring track and it was a handful.....I can't imagine how those floats banging around in those tight WCFB fuel bowls would hold up whipping the car back and forth between the cones!
04-17-2011, 05:25 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
That's pretty incredible....I autocrossed my '66 Mustang Fastback a few times in the '80s and even after making all of the Shelby modifications to the chassis/suspension it was dogmeat against the other, modern cars. And, I was aggressive enough to break off an upper arm control bolt in one run so it wasn't like I was babying the car.
04-17-2011, 05:58 PM
#16
Race Director
Thread Starter
Doug
04-17-2011, 06:24 PM
#17
Team Owner
I surprised the other contestants several times however when autocrossing against BM'ers, Mazdas, and a list of even more exotic cars it showed its age.
04-17-2011, 08:43 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
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Modern MacPherson struts and the use of camber plates are light years ahead of what was produced in the 60s. Remember, too, that auto crossing is not about power as much as it is about tires, suspension, and driving.