spiller9

Hey all,

My dad recently purchased a 1964 convertible (ex colorado car) which has had an on-the-chassis restoration about 10 years ago. Its a matching numbers convertible with the 365 hp option 327 (L76) and muncie 4 speed. It is claimed that the car was resprayed in the original "riverside red" during the restoration. The interior is all black with factory leather option.

A couple of questions regarding the trim tag. The tag is original, however the paint code is blank. There simply is no code next to the "PAINT" designation on the tag. I have heard that aproximately 1 in 24 cars were pulled from the assembly line for promotional reasons and didnt receive a paint code because of this? Can anyone confirm the reasons for there not being a paint code on the tag?

Also, the code next to the interior is 898AB. Now its my understanding that 898 represents leather option, but the code for black interior is just A (as far as I know). In fact there is no color combination on the interior designated for AB (again, AFAIK). So what does 898AB represent?

Apologies if these questions have been answered on here previously. We are just curious about these two "issues" because the vin and engine numbers match up and the car came with the original service records and a legitimate reproduction of the title.

thanks in advance.

Black_Magic

Click on below Trim Tag for decoding

George

spiller9

thanks for that link george. ill need to get the build date to make it work but hopefully that will get to the bottom of the interior code. still curious about the blank paint code though.

JohnZ

"898AB" simply describes a St. Louis-bodied '64 convertible with a black leather interior; the "AB" suffix was applied to all of those cars, with no coding for included or excluded body-affecting options. Lack of a "Paint" code generally indicated a special color or primer, although it could also be simply a plant error in producing the trim tag.

spiller9

Thanks JohnZ! What are you referring to with "no coding for included or excluded body-affecting options". Stuff like side-pipes and alloy wheels for example?

JohnZ

Nope. The ECL codes suffixed to the trim number on '64 St. Louis-bodied cars with non-black interiors will show the presence/absence of only four options - power windows, Powerglide, A/C, or radio.

spiller9

thanks again!

soppeng

You're not alone with the blank paint code. My 65 coupe also has a blank paint code. Here's an excerpt from an email sent to me by Al Grenning (the NCRS guru on trim tags) a few years ago concerning my trim tag, a few years before he published his NCRS book on trim tags.

"It has been discovered that there were often aberrations involving tag preparation. These included over-stamps, strike mis-location and incorrect info. I have no doubt that there may have been a circumstance where by a tag would lack a paint code. It would be very interesting to compare the trim tag of your car to the original POP. You should try a backward search to locate that item. With it we would know if you have an aberration or special production vehicle. (COPO or Shop Order)"

I don't have the paper work for my car that would offer verification of it being a COPO or just a screw up at the factory. Mines a driver, so it hasn't really been a big concern. If on the other hand, you want to go the NCRS route and have the car judged, you'll have to have some way to prove it was originally in primer, a special paint, or just an error on the trim plate if you want to obtain full points for the paint.

There's a book by Michael Antonick called the Corvette Black Book that provides the number of cars with special paint for each year, but he has indicated to me that he has no way of positively confirming the published numbers. You can also find a comment concerning special paint associated with a blank paint code in the M.F. Dobbins book Vette Vues Fact Book of the 1963-1967 Stingray, page 307.

Without original paperwork, you will probably encounter skeptics that the trim tag is original. Al Grenning's NCRS publication on trim tags offers fine details that can distinguish original trim tags if that is a concern.

My recommendation is to just drive and enjoy the car.

spiller9

Since we are in Australia, I dont think we will be entering any NCRS events, but the car gets enough looks as it is - there aren't many C2s in Aus (well certainly not as many as in the states anyway!). But the car is indeed a driver, that's why we bought it, to enjoy, and in my opinion, you can't enjoy a car by simply looking at it.

Thanks for your information soppneg. I have a question; what do the abbreviations COPO and POP refer to? Excuse my noobness on the matter. FWIW, we do have the original owner protection policy for the vehicle and an official reproduction of the original title so there is no doubt in our minds that the trim tag is original.

In more news however, we discovered today that the current red is not the original colour of this car. When stripping down the driver's door to fix a sticky window winder mechanism we discovered dark blue paint on the inside of the door skin. So it seems the original colour of the car was the navy blue (whatever the name may be). The only way this could not be the case is if that particular door came from a different car - only way to find out would be to strip down the passenger door and check that but removing those circlips on the windwo winders is fiddly! In any case, whoever did the colour change did a good job, there is no way you would know unless you did what we did.

62Jeff

Spiller, note the bold, underline text from JohnZ's post. Some cars were actually delivered to the delaers in Primer, with a blank paint code on the trim tag.

COPO - Central Office Production Order. the ability for well-connected people to place special orders involving options not listed on the order form. An example is a 69 Camaro with a 435 HP 427 in it.


POP - Protect-O-Plate, the metal plate that had the original owner's name embossed in it along with vehicle information. Used much like a credit card is used in an old imprinting machine, the POP was to have been imprinted on warranty work.

TheSaint

Is rhe ECL the same as the suffix?

JohnZ

The P-O-P was used from 1965-1972.

spiller9

do you mean to suggest that our car could have been delivered to the dealership in blue primer and changed to another colour by special order? A possibility I guess but if you saw what we saw today, the masking job definately looks more "aftermarket", for example, they masked around the winding mechanism for the front qaurter window and left a line of blue in this area. Its a bit hard to describe but I took a phone picture so I'll upload when I get a chance.

Just out of curiosity, if a dealership received an order for a special paint colour, who would they outsource this work to? A local body shop perhaps? a chevrolete contractor?

spiller9

And I guess a car delivered in primer wouldnt be completely fitted out with door cards are other bits and pieces that would have to be fitted after final paint?

62Jeff

I'm saying some cars were delivered to the dealer (fully assembled if I remember correctly) in a reddish-brown primer. I do not know how they were painted after that but trust that the buyer may have deferred to the dealer to paint it, or maybe they ordered it in primer because they wanted their own favorite painter to apply a custom color. Who knows.

gbvette62

A car ordered in primer, was delivered fully assembled. The only difference was that as it went down the assembly line, it did not get a color coat applied to it.

Who ultimately painted the car, would be up to the person who ordered it. I doubt that a dealer would order a primered car, with the intention of painting it a special color and then putting it in inventory. Dealers had the ability to order special colors through the COPO system, without incurring the cost of having to paint it. There was nothing to stop a customer (or dealer) from ordering a primered car and then have the dealer paint it, but it's more likely that the buyer had someplace else in mind to paint it.

I think in most cases, cars ordered in primer were done so by customers who wanted to paint it them self, or have it done by a shop of their choice. This could be done for many reasons. Someone who planned to build a custom or race car, may not have needed factory paint. Sometimes, vehicles were also ordered in primer by businesses, who had a particular color or paint scheme, they used for company vehicles.

Back in the mid 70's, there was a body shop in the Washington DC area that specialized in custom Corvettes. They ordered a number of 75-77 Corvettes in primer, to do custom paint jobs on.

JohnZ

Yes - only St. Louis-bodied cars with non-black interiors had trim ECL's.

mrg

CRS notwithstanding - learned something today. Blank paint code? .. Seems you could paint the car in any of the model year specific colors available in '64 and still be 'correct'.

About to commit a 'sin' - wish I had that trim tag on my car!.

JohnZ

Not quite. From a judging perspective, a car with a blank paint code must be presented either in primer, or with documentation showing that it was factory-painted another GM color not available on a Corvette.

spiller9

I was thinking the same thing! But more so from a "piece of mind" perspective of not ruining the matching numbers rater than a judging perspective.

JohnZ, from the judging point of view, how could one prove a blank paint code car was factory painted in another GM non-corvette colour? And what about the cars that (as stipulated above) received aftermarket paint jobs from new by independent paint shops? I guess they would have little integrity in the "survivor" class of vehicle.

all very interesting stuff! So how in-frequent are these "blank paint code" cars anyway? Id be interested to know a rough percentage if a known value exists.