ry57pont

how can the knockoffs come loose when the safety pin is used? I was looking to buy a set of the bolt on ones, but would prefer the "real" style. thanks - Ryan

jtranger

This has been discussed many times here. The "safety pins" are aluminum and will shear off if the wheels are installed improperly. If you follow the instructions and use a "****** Thumper" hammer to beat the bejesus out of them, they will stay on fine.

Frankie the Fink

Easy...if the safety pin is not installed, loose, or, not put in according to instructions, or the wheel isn't tightened up properly it can be disastrous. Just, literally, yesterday a friend drove his '66 big block from the dealer to my house and along the way the right front center cap came off, and lo and behold, there was NO pin in the knock off and I could run the spinner through two full turns before it snugged up...VERY dangerous and my pal dodged a bullet...he had been at 55mph on the Florida turnpike on the way over (see red arrow). If it were me I'd get the "knock-off/bolt-on" repros...I hear they don't come with spinner center pieces but somebody on here made some up themselves that worked.

65GGvert

All the bolt on's (except 67) that I've seen come with screw on spinners and center caps just like the knockoffs.

wmf62

i was here and saw it too... VERY scary...
Bill

stingrayl76

How does the spinner come off with the pins installed? The wheel exerts enoough force on the spinner which causes the spinner threads to cut through the "aluminum" pin. It may slow the wheel loss where you can get the car stopped before it happens that's all. Keep driving and the wheel is coming off.
The pins may add a bit of extra safety, although probably a false sense of added safety. In their knockoff installation instructions, Western Wheel covers their liability buy stating "pins are not designed or intended to prevent an improperly installed knock off spinner from loosening and a knockoff wheel coming off the car!" Check out the fine print in the instructions below.

wmf62

not sure of the cause of what Frank and i saw, BUT i would try roll-pins rather than aluminum pins; the interference fit of the properly sized roll-pin should keep from shearing the pin and/or keep the pin from falling out.
Bill

stingrayl76

Frank, Bill and Friend,
Since that wheel came loose, installing a pin is not addressing the issue of the spinner loosening. Something caused it to loosen. Suggest to you friend that he should pull that front wheel off and inspect it very closely for any damage. Is he using the long lug nuts to fasten the adapter to the hub? If not the wheel can be improperly indexed on the adapter and spinner loosening is almost guaranteed. Also make sure he is using a lead hammer that is at least 5 pounds. Oh, and if it were my car, I would check the other 3 wheels. Glad that thing didn't come off!
Dave

Karfever

As some of you may know, a week ago I bought a 65 Coupe with repro-knock offs. I drove the car 110 miles home, took it out again Saturday and felt a slight vibration coming home. I didn't think much about it until I went out to clean the car on Sunday. When I went to wipe off the right front wheel, the spinner spun! It wasn't even tight at all and could of easily fell off resulting in a catastrophic failure, three wheels instead of four.
I did alot of research and found out what caused my issue and know know how to correctly install these wheels. My problem was the result of improper installation, the wheel was incorrectly 'clocked' on the bolt on hub. There are longer lug nuts which when used will prevent the wheel for being incorrectly installed, I know have these and am checking all wheels. Also in my case the aluminum pin was sheared off.

These wheels are nice to look at but require knowledge to insure they are installed as designed, not by some 'bubba' who knows not what he does.

wmf62

you are right, and at this point we don't know what happened. supposed to have been installed on car by an highly experienced corvette shop that does all the work for the high-end corvette dealer the car was being purchased from; we may never know the cause...

i still think the pins are a worthwhile 'safety' device on a properly installed wheel, i just am leery of 'aluminum' pins....
Bill

dahogan

Buy the new KO bolt ons, 99% cant tell the difference anyways and you can drive w/o any worries. bwtfdik

MikeM

I would call that guy and tell him to check ALL his wheels for proper installation. If they're put on wrong, just tightening up the spinner won't fix it.

wmf62

Mike
this whole transaction has been a comedy of errors... they would probably ban me from the forum if i told who and what... all i can say is that i would NEVER recommend this dealer to anyone, EVER...
Bill

0Virginia Vettes

Have to agree 100% with this thread. Buy the Direct Bolt style wheels and motor without any worries. Call us for prices- we are the lowest price distributor
Virginia Vettes
1-757-229-0011

dahogan

I replaced the "reaL" ones this spring w/ TT's and putting on VV's bolt ons this coming spring. I think they have the best product at the best price per my research.

MikeM

You will still have those that even FORGET to tighten the five lug nuts. That's not as rare as you might think!



PS. Are you taking the KO's in trade for the bolt ons?

DansYellow66

Well - I was going to ask if anyone had actually seen an aluminum pin sheared in two lengthwise but your post appears to answer that. I am a fan of the hardeneded roll pins and I use them. If a knockoff can shear one of those things I'll be very suspicious of the report. Of course if one doesn't put the pin in or put the center cap on properly - that's a problem from the start.

provette67

You must be starting a wheel collection are you going to build an addition to the garage or like Pops store them under your bed

K2

I believe the true reason the knock offs were phased out rather rapidly is that GM discovered their engineering error and hoped to divest themselves of liability as quickly as possible. I also believe that convention is hard to break and that is why to this day all instructions show tightening to the rear right hand thread on drivers side left hand thread on passenger side again tighten to the rear. As long as the wheel is secured with enough preload on the center nut to not allow even the slightest amount of movement, and the components are undamaged, it really doesn't matter which directon the threads are buuuuut if they are not mounted correctly or with enough preload than epicyclic action will soon loosen the spinner and spin it right off of the spindle. You see one piece knock off wheels like are on our Corvettes evolved from the conventional wire wheel which always tightens to the rear and loosens to the front with right hand thread on the drivers side and left hand thread on the passenger side. You don't hear of may wire wheels coming off unless of course they are incorrectly installed. Well there is one huge difference between a wire wheel center and nut and a solid wheel center and nut. The wire wheel center nut is concave and engages over the spigot of the wheel which helps to keep the spokes tight and the wheel more rigid. The solid wheel in contrast uses a convex cone center nut which engages in a concave recess in the wheel center. If any slack is present in the wire wheel nut to wheel interface, the smaller circumferential interface of the wheel contacts the nut at a contact point of larger circumference causing the nut to be driven at a slower rate than the wheel and it actually self tightens. (picture a smaller gear driving a larger gear) On the Corvette wheel, when any slack develops you have a larger circumferential point of intersection on the wheel driving a smaller circumferential contact point on the nut causing the nut to be driven at a faster rate than the wheel itself. (Think of a larger gear driving a smaller gear) In very short order the nut is driven off of the spindle and in the worst case the wheel falls off. It is simply amazing to me that no one will take the time to understand the physics of what is going on. Even the wheel manufacturers are totally in the dark!! Where are the engineers?? Colin Chapman of Lotus fame, probably one of the best automotive engineers of all time understood this and utilized the concept in his wheel designs some of which used the concave nut like the wire wheels and some used the convex design. They tightened in opposite direction. I will propose a test, if anyone is game and will donate a junk knock off wheel nut and hub, I will construct a test device to simulate actual conditions under load and video it in action so all can see what actually happens. So if you have a wheel, nut, and adapter to donate for the cause, send me a message. I can return it after the test is finished if you like.

62Jeff

I was thinking it was due to Ralph Nader.