You Must watch this bad gas
12-29-2012, 08:19 AM
#21
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12-29-2012, 08:36 AM
#22
Le Mans Master
Gladly.
1. If E-15 ever does become available nationwide (only 4 stations in the U.S. have it at this time), it will NOT be replacing E-10.
2. Station owners will have to put in separate tanks and pumps for E-15 at their cost (read, NO cost incentive for any of them to even sell it).
3. The one bimbo states that E-10 is made with 84 octane gas and that will cause detonation which will ruin your motor. She doesn't mention that the alcohol mixed with the base is 110 octane which raises it to 87 octane. There are too many inaccuracies in that article to count.
4. E-85 has been available for 7 years. How many stations do you see it at? There are only a couple in my state and those are the ones that thought it was going to catch on. It hasn't and neither will E-15.
That Fox news article has been discussed on many forums. The majority of comments mention the term "laughable" when the accuracy is talked about.
Jim
1. If E-15 ever does become available nationwide (only 4 stations in the U.S. have it at this time), it will NOT be replacing E-10.
2. Station owners will have to put in separate tanks and pumps for E-15 at their cost (read, NO cost incentive for any of them to even sell it).
3. The one bimbo states that E-10 is made with 84 octane gas and that will cause detonation which will ruin your motor. She doesn't mention that the alcohol mixed with the base is 110 octane which raises it to 87 octane. There are too many inaccuracies in that article to count.
4. E-85 has been available for 7 years. How many stations do you see it at? There are only a couple in my state and those are the ones that thought it was going to catch on. It hasn't and neither will E-15.
That Fox news article has been discussed on many forums. The majority of comments mention the term "laughable" when the accuracy is talked about.
Jim
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and make a prediction . . . . with the declining dependence upon imported oil in this country due to our increasing supplies of petroleum and natural gas products and increasing vehicle fuel mileage combined with the the costs of ethanol production, I'm thinking things are going to turn the other direction in a few more years and corn ethanol as a fuel is going to go the way of the dinosaurs.
My opinion, feel free to vary with yours . . . .
12-29-2012, 08:58 AM
#23
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Faux News . . . . . that explains a whole lot . . . . .
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and make a prediction . . . . with the declining dependence upon imported oil in this country due to our increasing supplies of petroleum and natural gas products and increasing vehicle fuel mileage combined with the the costs of ethanol production, I'm thinking things are going to turn the other direction in a few more years and corn ethanol as a fuel is going to go the way of the dinosaurs.
My opinion, feel free to vary with yours . . . .
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and make a prediction . . . . with the declining dependence upon imported oil in this country due to our increasing supplies of petroleum and natural gas products and increasing vehicle fuel mileage combined with the the costs of ethanol production, I'm thinking things are going to turn the other direction in a few more years and corn ethanol as a fuel is going to go the way of the dinosaurs.
My opinion, feel free to vary with yours . . . .
Do you really believe that dependence on foreign oil has anything at all to do with having E 10 gasoline forced on us?
12-29-2012, 09:13 AM
#24
Race Director
E-10 is nothing a little lead won't fix. Unleaded has done more damage to old motors than E-10. I would think.
12-29-2012, 09:46 AM
#26
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I have been saying this since I can remember corn use for fuel. The worst most damaging synergy use is the combination of a food product for use in energy. Work towards foreign energy independence. Work towards better mpg and motor technology. Support finding energy in your own back yard.The corn farmers will do just fine.Worst case that could happen is Willie Nelson will be doing farm aid concerts !!
12-29-2012, 09:58 AM
#28
Safety Car
When you listen to something like this, and hear inaccuracies, you have to question the entire segment. Did y'all catch the statement she made that E15 had 1/3 of the energy content that regular gasoline does? Pretty good trick, to dilute gasoline 15% with Ethanol which has 34% less energy, and end up with a fuel that has 66% less energy. Any reasonable person would calculate the energy loss to be only about 10%.
Regards, John McGraw
Regards, John McGraw
12-29-2012, 10:09 AM
#29
Race Director
I've read that in 2014 the incentive to offer E15 is that it is the LAW.
The LAW can be a powerful incentive.
I got this info from a bloomberg site that explains supply/demand for ships. said the us imports ethanol by ship due to the corn shortage.
The LAW can be a powerful incentive.
I got this info from a bloomberg site that explains supply/demand for ships. said the us imports ethanol by ship due to the corn shortage.
12-29-2012, 11:01 AM
#30
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I read this post with interest and I noticed no one had mentioned what the car companies thought of E15. I did a quick Google search and the first article that surfaced indicated the car companies are either less than thrilled with the prospect of it being used in their cars or, in Toyota's case, advising against it's use.
http://www.startribune.com/local/149444025.html?refer=y
That being said, as it was mentioned earlier .... how stupid can we be in America to turn our food into fuel?
http://www.startribune.com/local/149444025.html?refer=y
That being said, as it was mentioned earlier .... how stupid can we be in America to turn our food into fuel?
12-29-2012, 11:15 AM
#31
Team Owner
It has bugged me since the gas crisis of the '70s (contrived or not) that the politicians have not come up with anything close to a comprehensive energy strategy. We are finally 'backing into' some hybrid technology in a painfully slow fashion and I think the foot dragging is to allow "big oil" to get their corporate strategies lined up as the demand for their product lessens.
12-29-2012, 11:35 AM
#32
Burning Brakes
When you listen to something like this, and hear inaccuracies, you have to question the entire segment. Did y'all catch the statement she made that E15 had 1/3 of the energy content that regular gasoline does? Pretty good trick, to dilute gasoline 15% with Ethanol which has 34% less energy, and end up with a fuel that has 66% less energy. Any reasonable person would calculate the energy loss to be only about 10%.*
* * * Regards, John McGraw
* * * Regards, John McGraw
In the old days that we simply had stale gas and you poured it out. Today, you have to replace parts too. The preventative cure is to drain everything now in the fall. Pain in the butt, but that is the only way.
12-29-2012, 11:45 AM
#33
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It has bugged me since the gas crisis of the '70s (contrived or not) that the politicians have not come up with anything close to a comprehensive energy strategy. We are finally 'backing into' some hybrid technology in a painfully slow fashion and I think the foot dragging is to allow "big oil" to get their corporate strategies lined up as the demand for their product lessens.
12-29-2012, 12:04 PM
#34
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12-29-2012, 12:41 PM
#35
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I think the EPA moved to e10 when MTBE started showing up in drinking water. MTBE, while not known to be harmless to humans, smells bad. It was in the gas to reduce emissions. So, I think e10 has little to do with dependence in foreign oil. The e85 I think is trying to make us look like Brazil which I believe has gone all e85 or all ethanol over the last decade to get rid of the dependence on foreign oil, which I also believe they have accomplished.*
When they dilute gas by 15% with alcohol at an octane rating of 130, they reduce the octane of the gas. When the alcohol separates out due to moisture absorption and temperature drop (which I realize to many here is urban myth - go talk to a marine or small engine mechanic north of the Mason Dixon line), what you end up with in your tank (and carb, and gas lines) is a soup of low octane gas, water, and solvent. Water corrodes parts not used to water, the solvent dissolves components not used to being saturated in solvent, and the gas that is left is not enough to fire a cylinder.
In the old days that we simply had stale gas and you poured it out. Today, you have to replace parts too. The preventative cure is to drain everything now in the fall. Pain in the butt, but that is the only way.
When they dilute gas by 15% with alcohol at an octane rating of 130, they reduce the octane of the gas. When the alcohol separates out due to moisture absorption and temperature drop (which I realize to many here is urban myth - go talk to a marine or small engine mechanic north of the Mason Dixon line), what you end up with in your tank (and carb, and gas lines) is a soup of low octane gas, water, and solvent. Water corrodes parts not used to water, the solvent dissolves components not used to being saturated in solvent, and the gas that is left is not enough to fire a cylinder.
In the old days that we simply had stale gas and you poured it out. Today, you have to replace parts too. The preventative cure is to drain everything now in the fall. Pain in the butt, but that is the only way.
I just lost a very nice little chainsaw. Took it in to see if it could be repaired. It can't. The service guy said it is very common now. The crap gas also separates out the two stroke oil leaving no top end lubrication.
12-29-2012, 12:52 PM
#36
Race Director
All I want to know is, is the part about all of the manufacturers voiding their engine warranties if 85 blended gas has been used fiction or non-fiction ? If true, I think that speaks volumes on it's own, bimbos or no bimbos. As for availability - they are constructing new gas stations out the wazoo around here - not much additional expense to add anonther tank and pump. Two-thirds of the public don't know what they are pumping into their cars.
12-29-2012, 01:17 PM
#37
Blaming E-10 for everyone's problems is getting old. I, along with everyone in the Pacific Northwest, have been using it since the 70's. I've run it in everything from my lawnmower to my LS-6 Chevelle, to my supercharged 502 boat, to my BB Corvette's and my dual quad 60. Never had a single problem related to fuel. I wish people would quit blaming it for problems with 40-50 year old parts that were designed to last 10 years.
Jim
Jim
12-29-2012, 02:29 PM
#38
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If you have that happen to you, it can/will damage your engine, make it stall or otherwise run poorly or not at all. Not only that but the excess water that has accumulated in that gasoline will corrode your fuel system.
In straight gasoline, it was easy to see if you had water in it. Just look in the bottom of the tank/can or whatever and you'd see a bubble of water, separated from the gasoline. Phase separated gasoline doesn't display this. But, if you put some separated gasoline in a clear container you can see three distinct layers of liquid. The top is straight gasoline minus the octane improver of ethanol. The second layer is a mixture of lots of water, alcohol and some gasoline and the bottom layer is mostly water. The whole container, except for the top layer will just look hazy. If you see that, throw it out.
If you store your fuel in sealed containers like I started doing several years ago, I don't think you'll have any problems.
It's the water that gets in the fuel that causes the problems, not the alcohol.
12-29-2012, 02:34 PM
#39
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When the refiners add the alky to the bulk gasoline, are they charging the retailer the same price they paid for the alky or are they tacking on a percentage? Or better yet, does big oil own a lot of these alky refining plants, thousands of acres of corn farms and actually making huge profits off the sale of E 10?