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Thanks Bill again... Crazy few work days (and weeks) for me, so responses could be delayed.. .but thanks for your inputs for sure
I am traveling on biz this week. When I get back home on the weekend, I will take some pics of the 62 that I had just got. The issue is (and will look more closely and also post some pics) is that the entire nose is stress crack and multiple lousy repairs city. As I recall, the cowl area is no better off than the fenders and the hood surround. I may have to replace the cowl.
Some others (not seeing the car... Stinger fiberglass for example) also recommenced staying away from the cowl.. and that is their justification for not molding it in their one piece noses. My 1st thoughts were that if it is molded in, and I do not need it, I could cut it off at some juncture point. If I did need it, then it is there. But if the quality in that area is horrible, then that certainly changes the dynamic a bit.
Once home I will take some detailed pics and maybe gauge the input from you and other as to 'keep cowl' or 'yeah... that cowl area is also ready to to go'.
Thanks much !
Jim
the BIG problem with replacing the cowl section is that you have to cut all the way across in front of the windshield and then splice it back together. not fun...
i bought an aci front clip [64] a couple of years ago to replace an earlier warped ,crap one piece..i was impressed by the quality and friendly service....cpi front end was high quality and immediately cleared up many fit problems with the one i ditched...hood fit was a1 from the get-go
You wont see any of the hand laid fiberglass on the front end when you open the hood unless you stuff your head under the fenders. If you take a few hours to skim coat, sand, and then black out the underside, it will look fine. Same goes for the fender skirts, but you will apply undercoating there, so not a big deal.
i have an Eckler one piece on my 62, back from when they made their own stuff... took a lot of work to make it look right, but the price is right is you have the time and the skills.
Bill
My $.02 - no. When I bought my '64 it came with an Eckler's one piece. My firewall area was cracked so I made a jig and hand laid the fiberglass to conform to factory. Not a huge effort, but enough time ona weekend. When the body shop hung the nose, they had to cut all of my effort off to make it fit. I would definitely go with a jig fit front end and not a one piece.
Hi TDISHON: Thanks much for those pics of your J&D 62 nose install. I see that you did your splice before the hood opening turns 90 degrees to go across the car. My 62 already has a nose job and the splice was about 1/2 into the turn. J&D took some pics of their molds for me (cannot believe in this day and age a firm would have no pics of their products... go figure) and my concern is that they stop their nose (at least looking at the pic of the mold) at the same place my splice is now.. about 1/2 way into that 90 degree turn.
I actually for this reason put my nose order on hold and told them to finish and ship everything else (hood, inner fenders, front baffle) while I rethink their nose. They had originally sent me a pic of a nose that the splice area wrapped fully around that 90 degree point and continued about 3 inched into the center. Then the splice went straight back to the windshield from there. That seem like it would work for me, so I ordered the nose (and the other parts). The next day on closer examination of the pic, it was a 58 - 61 nose. So I asked for a pic of the 62 nose. They did not have any. So I asked them to take a pic of the 62 mold. They did. That showed me the spice point on that 62 mold did not go as far as the 58 - 61 nose did... and I think I need that extra. So called them to verify what I was seeing from the mold pic, and as a result put the nose part of the order on hold until I rethink a little what to do now.
In the meantime, to buy me some time and give my wife something fun to drive, I decided to 'spritz up' the current junk nose to a 'presentable state'. I can make it look pretty presentable, although it will still be a 61 nose on a 62 car... but hey.. the casual observer will still think it looks great. And the wife does not know a 61 from a 62, from my 59, from my 67. Ignorance is bliss... So what does she care
Thanks again for all the help you you have provided to date.
IF the cowl area is solid I recommend the splice to be from the corner of the hood opening to the top of the door opening as shown in the picture; no good reason to mess with the area around the windshield.
I've done it both ways and prefer the 'from the corner' method.
This is my concern why a nose that wraps around the hood deck the full 90 degrees is needed. View of the already spliced nose. The drivers side has cracks wrapping around the cowl. They end pretty much as per the pic. It does seem repairable for sure, but a full nose and I am thinking I do not need to deal with cracks later telegraphing through.
Again, for the moment, I put the J&D nose on hold as it only come about 45 degrees around that corner into the cowl area
Thoughts ?
Note... traveling in a few min. Check back in late Sunday.
"IF" you are going make a short term/time repair I suggest you at least attempt to make permanent repairs of the various cracks by grinding/'V'ing them out and make full thickness repairs by filling with resin/epoxy and fiberglass mat. most of the stuff I see looks like simply body filler, which has absolutely no structural value. another thing I don't see is any kind of backing/reinforcing on those joints. probably wouldn't be as necessary if bubba had V'd the joints properly and used something other than bonding adhesive/body filler....
you might be able to fix all that 'stuff' so that you don't have to go-around-the-corner.
the eckler frontend on mine did go around the corner and now I have a slight crack where I made the joint. I wouldn't do it again...
Hi Bill: Yes.. Even on the short term repairs I plan to do quality work. Will glass the back sides for strength, V out the top side, and was thinking to either 2 part epoxy (I have gallons of the stuff hanging around used on the space shuttle as my 'ex' g-friend worked for a resin company that produced for NASA) or to glass over the top side one layer. My concern with the glass on the top side is now the are high spots. Maybe I am over thinking it and it will not be too high.
BTW.. short term is relative.. as I have a 64 Cad Eldo Convert as my next project... so 'short term' might be 2 years+. So I will do work that should last.
Also, Options helpful from all.... These are the pics that J&D Fiberglass sent that caused me to put the nose pat of the order on hold.
As I wrote, I think I need a nose that wraps fully the 90 degrees around into the cowl area (see pics of my car joint area from old nose swap, and cracks near hood deck in the cowl area just after the 90 degree bend).
The pic sent to be me 1st from J&D (1st pic) seemed great.. they wrap the full 90 degrees and then about 3" (my eyeball estimate). But when I asked that it looked like a 58 - 61 nose, and could I have a pic of the 62 nose, they had no pics. I dis ask, and they send, as a alternative, a pic of their 62 mold. That to me clearly shows it barely even completes the 90 degree bend. They must assume one splices at the 45 degree point into the bend.
So based on this, I am thinking the J&D nose may not work.
BTW... J&D has been great in communications, email and phone. 'Frank Garcia' there has been great to work with. It really is unfort, and he ack, that they have no pics of their noses as it would answer a lot of question that instead have to be done via phone call. Back to the Ecklers thread here.. Ecklers uses Stinger Fiberglass in FL. The Ecklers staff had no pics and no idea how far around the turn the Stinger nose ends. Neither I, nor Ecklers could get any response from Stinger after many attempts and many weeks (phone calls and emails). So I had to give up on them and move on to J&D Fiberglass.
So.. based on what people are seeing of the pics of my cowl area, and the pics of J&D mold, would you recommend not going with the J&D nose ? The alternative is to go back to Ecklers and try again to get some info / pics out of them to see how far around the 90 degree point they go.
Also, Corvette Image has one piece hand laid noses that include the cowl section (they sell through Corvette Central, and others too I presume). But of course now one is into the full cowl replacement (or cut off the cowl after the 90 bend at some point where needed is another option). It is somewhat more in price (about $400 more).. but their shipping is crazy, crazy high. J&D can ship from west coast to east coast for $190, but Corvette Image is over $500 (west coast to east coast). I just do not get their shipping costs. I asked them many times 'are you sure... does not make any sense you are almost 3 times the ship costs. But they stayed on that shipping cost quote. Also, as this is a non-match numbers, end state 'just a nice driver' car, I am not considering the press molded options (huge price diff). I know that some on the forum are ardently against using anything but the PM piece bonded noses, but both Hand Laid and PM have their place. For this car, HL is very suitable. I also feel they are stronger than a lot of bonded pieces.
Thanks - Jim
Original pic from J&D that shows a full wrap around the 90 degree point plus about 2+" (it looks like)
Pic of their 62 mold. Looks like it barely makes the 90 degree turn
the first picture is like my eckler's front end is/was....
if you are not going to use a backing strip at your splice points (and they can be ugly to see from the underside, I suggest you make a w-i-d-e Vee from almost a feather edge on the top side and do your work from the top; you bring the glass up to the surround surface level and finish it just like the rest of the top side.
now, a suggestion, something I learned the hard way (and too late...)... place the hood on its hinges and engage the latches and fit the one piece front end up to the correct fit with the hood before starting to attach it permanently. I had to modify my hinges because I set the front a bit too low in the front......
i bought an aci front clip [64] a couple of years ago to replace an earlier warped ,crap one piece..i was impressed by the quality and friendly service....cpi front end was high quality and immediately cleared up many fit problems with the one i ditched...hood fit was a1 from the get-go
john b
BTW... thanks for the info on ACI... as best I can tell from their website, they do not do the 58 - 62 noses. But thanks much for the input and responding to the thread. Jim
OK.. a little more intel... persistence.... finally got through to Stinger Fiberglass (Eckler's current provider) a few moments ago, spoke with the lead man, Artie, and he states that their nose does the full 90 wrap, and about 2 inches beyond the 90 degree turn.
This reinforces what Bill recalls about his Ecklers nose.
So this places Ecklers nose (really a Stinger nose) back into consideration. I will also verify with J&D fiberglass one more time, can they look close at the 62 mold, and in fact verify the mold does not fully wrap the 90 degrees (or if it does, just barely is what the pics show) and their design is intended to sliced at the 45 degree point into the turn, and their nose really has no usable material after that 50 or 60 degree turn point.
Jim
BTW.. hope this all adding to the knowledge base on the forum
"IF" you are going make a short term/time repair I suggest you at least attempt to make permanent repairs of the various cracks by grinding/'V'ing them out and make full thickness repairs by filling with resin/epoxy and fiberglass mat. most of the stuff I see looks like simply body filler, which has absolutely no structural value. another thing I don't see is any kind of backing/reinforcing on those joints. probably wouldn't be as necessary if bubba had V'd the joints properly and used something other than bonding adhesive/body filler....
you might be able to fix all that 'stuff' so that you don't have to go-around-the-corner.
the eckler frontend on mine did go around the corner and now I have a slight crack where I made the joint. I wouldn't do it again...
Bill
Hi Bill: What would you not do again.. go around the corner for the splice point, or use a Ecklers (now mfg by Stinger) nose ? Or not do a splice at all and do a full nose due to cracks at the splice joint ?
Also.. as you can see from my 62 pics, it has cracks at the splice point as well, but I am attributing that to highly inferior workmanship. It has no bonding strip on the underside of the spice joint. I think this means for sure some cracking in the future. But if the majority of these splices crack over time, even with bonding strips (unsightly as they may be) on the underside, then that calls into question the whole 'splice' vs 'do the whole cowl as well' debate. Seems you and most strongly urge to stay away from the cowl approach and I am heeding that advice.
05-24-2016, 10:31 AM
