donbayers

Any help on an education would be great.

Details

1963 Muncie M-20 transmission.

Had a local shop redo. Problem, noise in first gear. Tranny coming back out for tear down.

Question is about Torque Lock Sliders. (keep in mind I know nothing)

While in the mechanics shop I overheard the guys talking about how this tranny guy adds in the "torque lock sliders" to his rebuilds and that they don't really like them.

I ask if it makes the tranny harder to shift....they say yes. I say I don't want my tranny to be harder to shift as I want it to be as user friendly for the wife as possible. They say the original tranny never had these torque locks in there.

I talk to the tranny guy this AM and bring up the subject. He tells me it is a modern improvement to the unit and that is should not make any difference in the shifting.

I don't know who to believe and want some other expert opinions!

Should I tell the tranny guy to get those things out of there or should I just keep mouth shut????

Help

62bubbletop

Hello Don, Give Don Downey in Boardman, Oh 44512 (Youngstown area) a call @ 330-758-3850, he's well versed on Muncies........Chuck

SS409

I have a T-10 behind a 409 that would pop out of gear whenever I downshifted. My transmission guy recommended installing the torque lock sliders to prevent this from happening. The trans was a little hard to shift at first but after a couple of thousand miles its just right. This was with regular 90 wt oil, no syn.

donbayers

OK, I called Don in OH. He said that the jury was still out in his mind. He did say that it should not overly affect the shifting but that they would wear in just a bit.

He said a lot of people don't like them

SS409

IMHO Pennzoil syncromesh is a good manual transmission oil. If you have a hard shift problem you can add one of the many transmission additives available. These will help loosen things up.

donbayers

Update;

Tranny was taken out of the car and over to tranny shop guy. He already has it back together.

Question, Royal Purple Syn was put in it the first time and now I'm questioning that.

I see interesting reviews on this Pennziol Synchromesh oil and am wondering if this is what i should go with????

These original Muncie's used this kind of oil right?? Not ATF???

Please help

62bubbletop

Don, 75w90 or 80w90 gear oil is standard lube for manual trans & diff. Most oil companys (Valvoline Pennzoil etc.) offer this petro. based product as well as in a synthetic form (same weights)...... ATF= automatic trans fluid isn't the ticket..........Fill through the side plug hole until oil is level with bottom of fill hole, reinstall fill plug...........Can't really say that one is any better (petro based or syn) than the other as I've always used petro. based.

Powershift

I don't have any experience with Royal Purple or any synthetic oil for the manual trans. I have always used 80W-90 gear oil for both the transmission and the rear axle....specifically GM # 1052271 Rear Axle Lubricant (this part number may have been recently superceded, but the GM Parts guys will have the current/latest info).


Penzoil or Valvoline or one of the other major brands of 80W-90 GL-4/GL-5 petroleum gear oil should work just as well. This is what the transmission was designed to use, and what thousands of us have successfully used for decades.

In the past, I have tried various racing gear oils or other "trick" gear oils, only to experience hard shifting and disappointment.


For what its worth........

Larry

donbayers

Thanks

Here is the link for the Pennzoil product.

Think I am going to try that out for run in and then switch to quality 80-90 oil

http://www.pennzoil.com/wp-content/u...rans-Fluid.pdf

GCD1962

I would stick with the old tried and true GL-4, or GL-5M rated oils for the older transmissions. The above Pennzoil is formulated for the more modern day trans. When I bought a new Muncie from Autogear it specifically said NOT to use synthetics, but to use GL-4 or GL5M

donbayers

OK, Help an uneducated person out here. Are you saying that the Pennzoil product is a synthetic???

the first go around they put Royal Purple in it and I told them not to put that back in

This is a very confusing subject with no consensus it seems

Plasticman

GCD1962 is correct. I have used a synthetic (Amsoil) in a Muncie once .......... hard shifting until I changed the fluid back to a GL4.

The Pennzoil Synchromesh is not designed for the older Muncie / T-10 type trans.

Use the fluid it was designed to use. Newer manual transmissions are designed to use thinner fluids (the above Pennzoil or ATF) that have less parasitic drag, but are not what you want to use in a Muncie.

Plasticman

MikeM

It doesn't have to be confusing. Just use what the GM book and most others here tell you to use and you'll be okay.

Dan Hampton

Synthetic gear lube is not normally suggested for older T-10s, Muncie and Ford Top Loaders. The trouble is this: you need a certain amount of friction on the clutch cone of the gear being synchronized. Synthetic oil provides too much lubricity and you may experience grinding when shifting if you employ it. That is why top tranny builders like David Kee don't suggest it.

Re: torq-lok sliders, they are a good idea. You will not have the usual problems with gear popping in the future if you employ them. The decisions rest, primarily, on how aggressive you are going to be with your shifting.

donbayers

OK,

I went up to the auto store and checked out the difference, at least consistency wise.

The Pennzoil product is noticeably thinner than the standard 80w-90 oil when you shake the bottle.

I'm going with the Lucas product as that should be a quality product and there should be no way I'm doing anything wrong.

Thanks for all the posts on the subject.

Will report back on how the tranny works

Plasticman

Ah, the power of advertizing.........

TDS for the Lucas lube (says GL5, not GL4): http://www.lucasoil.com/images/media...90-GearOil.pdf

For your reading enjoyment:

http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf

Plasticman

donbayers

Good Lord what are you trying to do to me

So I read the document and it basically says I will ruin my tranny if I use a Oil that is also GL5 rated. What is the catch.... You can't find GL4 only oil

Here is an interesting discussion

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/arch.../t-369575.html

wmf62

you need to avoid lubes with sulfur in them as the sulfur will deteriorate 'yellow' (brass, copper) parts (mostly synchronizers rings and bushings).

check the specs or contact the manufacture.
Bill

Dan Hampton

Mike has stated the obvious and the solution to your problem.

plaidside

I have rebuilt many T-10's and Muncie’s over the years and have never seen any deterioration of the brass synchronizers when using 80-90 GL-5.
I have personally installed at least a dozen first and second Torque Lock Sliders in Muncie and T-10’s in the last few years with no issues with shifting.
I did two of my own T-10’s in my Vettes and am very pleased with the shifting.
I do use the Lucas 80-90 gear oil.
Joe