TCracingCA

This is your Terry probably selling his injection unit and car to get the 1966. One of these days, we should get together on the phone and put his timeline together. in 1969, he moved in with his good friend Dave King probably from his divorce on 1221 Sycamore; Anaheim 92805 (Dave Kings place) and that was there phone number in the ad. He was still with Corvettes of So California. The 2nd Annual Corvette drags was postponed twice due to weather and didn't run in January, but clear out in April. He wasn't very active with the club during this time, but did the drags and rode out with Dave King to some events. Then in 1970 he was nominated to the Equipment Chairman and hooked up other members with stuff and helped sell his stuff and others stuff as a club function. I would guess he got the 1966 after this March 1971 advertisement. Also Dave King got married, so I think Terry got moved out shortly or just before that! Also Dave King built a trailer special to take his car to the 1970 Vancouver meet prior to getting married, so I think Terry went with him. PS Dave King was the former Club Equipment Chairman and it looks like he passed that to Terry after getting married. Maybe them going to Daytona, was what lead them to building a trailer for the next big road trip!

March 1971


Also I need to get you a few more tidbits also! But this was the most interesting thing that I had found in my working on histories!

Also thank you very much for those items, but always check with me before sending something because I probably already have most things!:chee rs: Our family had a Vintage Formula Ford that had competed in just about every Regional/National race at Riverside back in that era and when we sold the family racing toy, we kept the stuff like that. I have to pull those out, so we may have to find a another happy home for someone deserving of the history you sent me. Rex the gestures are always appreciated, receiving the package made me laugh and smile. You were right on the mark, but I am the hardest car enthusiast to gift to! Hey don't worry! I won't let you caught up, I will break you of feeling as if you have to match enthusiast sharing to enthusiast sharing. It has been fun to find stuff for your car! And because you aren't beating me up constantly and are a patient guy and a sincerely nice guy -- it hasn't been a problem forwarding stuff as I just did (enthusiast to enthusiast)!

Enjoy the recent find above!

Also I had asked about the Orange wire above. I have some good lengths of original in the garage, but not enough to do a small block with. Therefore I see someone was reproducing the solid core Orange L-88 truck origin wire and I am thinking about taking off the MSD core 8.5 mm and go back to solid core, so I was wondering about the quality if those were repro? Nothing more authentic period correct, than running Police radio interfering Solid Core plug wiring!

Dr L-88

Also I need to get you a few more tidbits also! But this was the most interesting thing that I had found in my working on histories!

Also thank you very much for those items, but always check with me before sending something because I probably already have most things!:chee rs: Our family had a Vintage Formula Ford that had competed in just about every Regional/National race at Riverside back in that era and when we sold the family racing toy, we kept the stuff like that. I have to pull those out, so we may have to find a another happy home for someone deserving of the history you sent me. Rex the gestures are always appreciated, receiving the package made me laugh and smile. You were right on the mark, but I am the hardest car enthusiast to gift to! Hey don't worry! I won't let you caught up, I will break you of feeling as if you have to match enthusiast sharing to enthusiast sharing. It has been fun to find stuff for your car! And because you aren't beating me up constantly and are a patient guy and a sincerely nice guy -- it hasn't been a problem forwarding stuff as I just did (enthusiast to enthusiast)!

Enjoy the recent find above!

Also I had asked about the Orange wire above. I have some good lengths of original in the garage, but not enough to do a small block with. Therefore I see someone was reproducing the solid core Orange L-88 truck origin wire and I am thinking about taking off the MSD core 8.5 mm and go back to solid core, so I was wondering about the quality if those were repro? Nothing more authentic period correct, than running Police radio interfering Solid Core plug wiring! [/QUOTE]


THANKS Derek !!!!!!!! Once again you've surprised me beyond my wildest expectations. This is a great piece of history for my car, and I appreciate you sharing this more than my words can express. I had hoped my "care package" would be a nice surprise for you, but obviously you are one of those guys who is difficult....................no, impossible to gift to........................well, I tried, so use them for trading material for something you can use.

Regarding the orange wires, yes, they are original AC Delco 550 Packard plug wires with stainless steel core. I bought a few sets years ago when they were still available and these duplicate the look of Terry's race engine from back in the day. I'm trying recreate the car as accurately as I can.

Thanks again for all your help.....................from the start of this thread.

TCracingCA

The ad selling doesn't have your 1964! I think I typed that all too fast, but because the injection units are listed at the top, if I was selling something and the equipment chairman, naturally I would type my stuff first at the top! I am getting rusty not keeping Terry's timeline memorized. But I have it in pieces, for review! I think he divorced in 1968 in Orange. I forgot already who kept the car etc.. So if I seem a little scrambled, look past it, because I am not going to reread this mega thread! It would take too much time and it would be quicker to get a timeline together for the other things I will get to you!

And yes, it is hard to gift to me! Yes! But I got a lot of enjoyment out of what you sent! It sincerely made my day! I will post up a shot of my Formula Ford plaque collection and you will fall off of your computer chair!

jimgessner

I look forward to meeting you Derek. I am especially interested in RIVERSIDE material.......and also want to visit Dennis McCosh and view his SIC-SIC records. Would you be up to meeting?

TCracingCA

Even though I have met just about every one in the hobby in casual conversations or in a group conversation , or approached a car and ended up in discussions or had guys walk up to our cars, or we walked up to other peoples cars over the years, I have met you and guys like Kevin M. and Wingate, and alot of others. I also used to be alot skinnier, but that changed after 2010. I even though I had met you Rex, but it turned out to be your former car Owner of the C3 that I had talked to at Carlisles!

I will go social again, when I have my car builds, projects etc. done. I keep having setbacks the biggest was the 2010 with the near death (about less than a minute from leaving this life is what Doctors etc. said)motorcycle accident where I now have 70 pieces of metal holding me together now. But the latest is I was getting noise notices and complaints of working on cars, unless I time projects perfect and close up everything and limit running anything that is a heavy duty noise maker like a grinder, or saw etc. I had to prove to the City that all 4 of my personal collector cars where personally owned and that I wasn't running a shop for hire! Therefore I am working on my Brother's 1973 Base Car Porsche RSR build where we have the car taken down to a shell. We cut out battery boxes, running brake ducting thru the front by modification of the gas tank cutting off the sides, full 935 suspension, 11" rims back/9" fronts etc. 100k budget project chasing down authentic ducktail from Poland, authentic flares out of Germany etc.. out of his security garage!

Once done, we will get one of my cars over and finish tearing into that further and/or just complete the reassembly. I have the 1963/4 car sitting on blocks suspended in the air. I have about 80% of the J-56 Discs back on it, I am playing with the interior and need to reupholster my seats, I am redoing my console area, I refitted the C3 style L-88 hood I had and got rid of the C2 hood with the tall L-88 hood scoop attached. I call the L-88 hood the C3 style and the Stinger hood is the C2 1967. I almost put the Stinger one back on, had it hood pinned on, but then the L-88 is just so much more aggressive.

Some lady ran into the back end of my car on the 5 freeway and so I have some minor body work to do. I wasn't happy with State Farm and the lack of doing anything to assist with the accident to help go after the other driver or their insurance. The lady claims that she never touched me, but exchanged not her insurance but the Vehicle Owners information of the SUV she borrowed. Thus I changed insurance Companies to USAA and they were the one that were the friendliest, because when I cancelled with State Farm, they had registered the Accident even though I was hit from behind on a freeway in rush hour traffic, and the other carriers were looking at that raising my rates even though the matter is unsettled and the other insurance refused to pay on the claim! Therefore to Court I go. So I just put the 1968 my driver Corvette in storage for now!

And more, my Bosses decide to relocate the company 25 miles further from my place and now I am commuting at least 2 hours daily more than I ever had to commute which has taken two hours daily away minimum from my personal time from what was my average day.

So I do this Corvette forum to stay attached to the hobby and to decompress or unwind or as something to do on a lunch break.

But as far as information, when this thread started, I was going to put everything I had up. All of the names and what clubs they were in, all of the events on the schedule from year to year (at least for my interest area of C2/C3 cars from 1963 into the era of when I bought my car in the early period and as many results as I could find. Instead of guys sharing history, instead I had guys adding phony histories to their intended profit makers from this information we had discussed. I would say Rex is an enthusiast. His car isn't being offered for sell, unlike other guys wanting to get these records. Thus I have a conflict of interest helping. I also would have shared everything I had with an enthusiast, but then found I created competition for records and such, where no one ever took an interest before. I still owe the Cobra guy that was very generous some effort and sharing. I kind of dropped the ball on just giving him more data than what I posted. He was an awesome guy, but our Crowd didn't seem to appreciative of what he actually gave us and shared. Kind of embarrassing! I even set up one clown and posted up a similar car in pictures and sure enough that claimed enthusiast jumped at the bait and added a bunch of wrong information on his car! I was surprised pleasantly with the Kevin D. guy who had tried to buy my parts for his car, so I was thinking phony phony phony, but darn it was so cool to see in this thread that he had the real honest race car that did belong to Rollie. I still aint selling any of my authentic Thumper Flares or spoiler to anyone. I had JD Corvette want to replicate my period made L-88 hood, because it is the truest one he had ever seen and he wanted to mold my Thumpers, but I turned down that and never will, because why would I want more Thumper body mods out there on more cars.

The good thing about this thread is that we got to talk about Socal stuff, so I have shared tidbits of just about something about everything (shops, meets, dealerships, cars, owner's, racing parts, the hot rod scene in general etc.).

It has been interesting! But the only guys currently that I feel I should share with other than Rex, is the Cobra guy and I have to look up his name again in his emails, because I should have out of respect remembered his name, because he is a cool guy. And Brian wih the awesome shared pictures of his Dad and in color. Wow, Wow, Wow bringing it all to life. And other contributors! I have some sharing with Matt and maybe we can improve on that! I have stuff that I would love to give to him. Actually I won't mind putting his Owner's history together, so he has it and can relax! Place smile post here. He is an enthusiast and is trying to find every thing about his former Owner and even in sources that sometimes don't net good results in the quest. But I know how that goes. You can chase down stuff, to come up with nothing or sparse finds that aren't helpful, after vast amounts of effort or expense.

PS the current Owner of the Dennis McCosh car has all of the Dennis McCosh and other owners history in the way of trophies, plaques and has a very nice running history list of the competition history. Heres a picture of his stuff! It will take me some time to pull it and post!

Dr L-88

Got my original Cone Brothers license frame restored. Sorry for the poor quality of the photo. It does look much better than the photo displays. Still on the trail of the original engine.

TCracingCA

Rex! Where is the before and after side by side?

I like them when they are done right and look that good. If the car was a little ratty like my stuff, then the frame has to stay ratty! How did they do with the back side manufacturer castings on the back. That is what I fear on going for a restoration! Purdy purdy purdy! On a purdy purdy purdy and bad A$$ car! Thanks for your continued sharing!

I almost started a thread on what guys have lost over the years, that belonged to their cars. I think I will start that now!

Dr L-88

Here ya go Derek...........................

The "before" one had just a little too much patina for me.

jimgessner

One of Terry's friends and leader of Corvettes of So Cal, NANCY LEONHART and husband GARY owned a red / black 67 Air conditioned 427/390 that came from CONE Chevrolet.

Dr L-88

Yes Jim, I've seen their names in some of the literature I have. I wish there could be a huge reunion for all these racers from back in the day, especially the "little guys and gals".................the ones who did this as a hobby for the love of it.

Today got off to a rough start for me...........................I went to the hospital at 6:30 AM to have a kidney stone removed. Got back home about noon, still kinda loopy from the anesthetic......................but I had enough of my senses to find a huge surprise in the mailbox. Dianne Hildebrand was very generous in sending me her short sleeve sweatshirt with the WSCC logo on it. Naturally I was very excited to get another link back to Terry and Dianne's car. Thank you Dianne, I REALLY appreciate this.

TCracingCA

That she just wasn't looking to have someone do some laundry for her and fold it and ship it back?

PS I have actually started a folder for each person in this thread that has shared stuff to help enthusiast.

I have one for your Owner's Rex!
For Matt
For Bryan H.
And Cobra stuff!!!!! To help our Honored Visitor!

Example: We will start with like Matt

December 65 Club publication mention of election of Bob Lee as Events Chairman. Very tiny picture of Bob with all other active club members. (No Kathy yet)
6/26/66 Clockwatcher IV Cub SSC Pomona Valley Center Class BM R. Betchner 30th Place Car #36; Class BW K. Betchner 8th Place Car #35

1966 Third Annual Golden State Grand Prix- no Betchner or Lee in the invitation list of Competitors.

Nov 66 Club publication Shows Kathy Betchner as Editor and preparation. Ron re-elected 2nd term as Events Chairman. Kathy elected as Publicity Chairman. Also mentions an event called Curves or Bust Slalom (All Women's event), but they only mentioned the top three finishers and not Kathy.

January 15, 1967 Pomona Valley Event (Showing in March 67 Club literature:
16th Place Class B was Ron Betchner
9th Place Class BW was Kathy Betchner

March 67 Club literature mentions Kathy as the Publicity Chairman naturally and it mentions Ron helping to arrange the Annual Banquet. Shows Kathy's car at a Car Show with the Knock Offs (this is the picture I shared very early in the thread).
Also showing was a picture of Kathy sleeping in a Coupe.
Picture of Kathy's car on Rallye to the local Mountains (those pictures I had up very early in the thread).
WSCC Modesto-- No mention of them in the standings. (I find in the general WSCC, they give sparse standings in their literature covering only like the winners or Trophy winners only.

2/19/1967 Mestizo OC Fairgrounds
20th Place R. Betchner
10th Place K. Betchner

2/261967 Slalom of the Pacific XII
37th Place R. Betchner
11th Place K. Betchner

Also shows 2nd Picture of Kathy's car at the Mountain Rallye


And as I find stuff, I will add it. Also I have events in between, but someone might have competed, but then they weren't mentioned in the literature that I have. Example was that Ron and Kathy attended the San Diego WSCC Convention but something happened to the car during the competiion. Matt has color pictures of that day with the American Rims (Torque Thrust style) and I have a few tiny black and whites of them on the staging, but then in Sept 69 Club literature- here new guy Bob and her write an article together mentioning this all and looking forward to the Concours and Rallye. Also as prominent Club members, they mentioned the selection of the 1970 Convention in Vancouver!

Then in 1969- they were not mentioned in the Officers Listing for the Club any longer.

I know they switched to Big Bucks at a certain time and I know they were still with Big Bucks club till at least 1975.

So this is an example of some of what I was working on for those that participated in our Thread. Therefore I will just one day have to get the copies made for sharing which is what I seem to never have time to do.

For you Rex, still sparse stuff on Terry! But for Diane, a lot of records. Like with the Kathy Betchner/Lee-- it could be a bigger project than I might want to tackle because they competed so long and in so many events. Brian your Dad was prominent in the records also. Do you guys have his accomplishments if you are still looking in? I haven't started anything on him yet, I just have a folder at this point.

sub006

One of the standout Corvettes So Cal members that sticks in my mind is Les Racjesy(sp?), pronounced "racy"! He was the first I heard of to drop one of the BRAND NEW 350s into his '64 coupe.

mattnSD

Well, I will start by apologizing for being very absent. Work and family have taken all my time. I will mention, however, I got a very cool phone call from Kathy about 3 weeks ago. She called to tell me that John Bixler, a life-long friend and active Clippinger club member dropped off 3 big boxes of old Corvette literature and that it was mine if I wanted it. Most of it included "Corvette News" magazines (just about the entire collection), many, many Clippinger Club newsletters, and NCRS Restorer and driveline magazines (going way back). There were also 50s and 60s Hot Rod magazines, etc. I havent even had much time to go through it all, but I certainly pulled the Clippinger Newsletters out and looked through them. Lots of neat history of that entire club! Found some awesome stuff on Kathy. When I get time, I will photograph some of it and post it up. For now, I will share some of the other things that pertain to Rex and Derek. These are from vintage WSCC newsletters....

mattnSD

Rex, you may have these, but if not....

mattnSD

Derek, here's a nice shot of Cloyde.

mattnSD

mattnSD

This picture is interesting as it depicts that Bob was president of both clubs. They were connected clearly.

jimgessner

LES RAJCZI. He lives in Mission Viejo. Still has the 64. I see him at certain events usually twice a year. He is good friends with ALLEN MORRIS who came on scene in 1977.

CHARLIE BACON in Running Springs owns JOHN BIXLER's old red / black 65 coupe. He bought it two or three years ago.

jimgessner

TOM MAZZOLA's 62 Corvette is in Rhode Island with a long time Corvette collector. STEVE and LAURIE ''TEX'' SCHWAB bought the car in 2003 at the 50th Anniversary at the MUSEUM in Bowling Green, and restored the carback to 1962-66 specs. It still has the original paint scheme from ''back in the day'' The car is a real BIG TANK. BIG BRAKE 687 car.

TCracingCA

Hey Matt, seeing what books club literature you have helps me know what info you have and you have passed me up. Thus I should be able to plug some holes for you still maybe.

In regards to the WSCC back then there were about 37 clubs, but the politics were super heavy between WSCC and the two organizations SCCSCC and NCSCC. Both SCCSCC and the Northern Cal guys had full competition schedules and usually had events planned well in advance to have WSCC plug in an event on a crucial weekend that caused a conflict. In actuality, the WSCC was poorly organized back then, always had to pull the money together for one of their events and then were stupid on there scheduling. Some of that went back to guys coming out of rival clubs and that continued to be a problem. Even with the Shelby guys and Cobra, they had some of the same thing happening with their organizations. Everyone vying for participants. Case in point, WSCC plugs in an event for the Fourth of July weekend one year knowing that the Annual Golden State Grand Prix at Santa Maria Airport between the North and South always was that weekend. That was the straw that broke the camels back between the groups and then it got worse for awhile. Therefore many of the Clubs like Clippingers and Socal Corvette would just do their own thing on their weekends and ignore or not attend the WSCC stuff because of the importance and competition standings of the club within the SCCSCC organization. Also the PreConventions were a creation within the WSCC to fund the big Annual Convention. When they decided to go a distance especially to Vancouver, they needed the funding for such an endeavor. The WSCC had Clubs that weren't the heavy Competition groups and more of the enthusiast crowd. But then also WSCC was known to revoke their voting privileges as a Club and threaten their membership standing as a Club in the WSCC was what was going on, so on occasion they used that to force a Club to attend. Therefore you will probably or have found sparse stuff on Betchner/Lee in the WSCC, except at the peak of their being Officers. I would bet that the disappearance of their names from the Clippinger Officers listing was due to the conflict with their particpation in the WSCC organization. The WSCC was basically two big events a year, and they tried to organize some other Rallyes and Concourse shows and such and then occasionally someone had the idea of tagging a Slalom events sponsored by one club or another under the WSCC parent organization. But the SCCSCC continued with full yearly schedules and a running series of races, but even SCCA was messing with them. Therefore the SCCSCC was getting it from both sides-- from the WSCC and the SCCA.

Thus you can see that I just don't chase this stuff just for my Owner, but because the history actually is interesting. I also like this stuff for the simple pure interest in when and how the cars were flared, when the headers got mounted, the tires used or preferred, the speed parts that came out and were used and who had what done to their cars. I have real good history on my one guy, and I snipped that Cloyde Angell picture off of the computer previously, but what you put up is fair better quality so thank you! I like seeing pictures of the guy, it brings it all to life!

My SCCA racing project is still my priority, but this weekend slalom stuff still gets my interest because it is about the enthusiast from back in the day and what the trends were and when things happened.