502 install in 66 427 car
09-05-2013, 02:27 PM
#1
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502 install in 66 427 car
New to this forum stuff, looking for info on whether stock BB hood will fit with my 502,If anyone has had issues with air cleaner , holley carb, etc.. Also, which ceramic headers are best for my application with side pipes..Iwill be pulling engine this winter and fitting, but for now food for thought.. Thx
09-05-2013, 06:58 PM
#2
I think it will depend on the intake you use. If you use something like the stock L72 intake ( '069 IIRC ) and air cleaner, it should fit. If you use a taller intake, it probably won't fit.
This is a fairly common swap, so I'm sure one of the folks that have done this will chime in.
This is a fairly common swap, so I'm sure one of the folks that have done this will chime in.
09-05-2013, 08:33 PM
#3
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The 396, 402, 427, 454, 502 blocks all have the same (standard) deck height. Thus, whatever will fit/clear with a 427 will also fit/clear with a 502.
The TALL deck BB blocks are the 366 truck, 427 truck and the 572 blocks. With any of those, you will have clearance issues.
The TALL deck BB blocks are the 366 truck, 427 truck and the 572 blocks. With any of those, you will have clearance issues.
09-05-2013, 09:09 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
New to this forum stuff, looking for info on whether stock BB hood will fit with my 502,If anyone has had issues with air cleaner , holley carb, etc.. Also, which ceramic headers are best for my application with side pipes..Iwill be pulling engine this winter and fitting, but for now food for thought.. Thx
you MUST go with a flywheel specific for the 454-502 gen vi mill, it's a balance thing and only may use those, ram makes a light one for the mill if you are interested and i would highly recommend it.
the earlier crates did not have a boss for the clutch pivot ball, scoggy dickens has them as a bolt on bracket.
don't know if you have a fuel pump boss or not, may have to go electric.
intake shipped will work, edelbrock performer rpm is much better but needs some more creative clearance mods. with the hood.....cut off choke tower.
the flywheel needed is 168 tooth. some have tried to balance the older 12 inch version but it is difficult to do to the new specs. due to the one piece rear main seal......thats' about all i can think of for now
if you are going from sb to bb, need to change the core support
mcjacks makes the best ceramic headers for the side exhaust...good luck.....
09-05-2013, 11:30 PM
#6
502 fit
My '66 has a 496 installed and I used the stock 3885069 aluminum intake with AFR rec. port heads and a Holley 850. The hood fits fine with the stock breather. I also used a set of Hooker Super Comp ceramic undercar headers with a custom exhaust hooked to the sidepipes. It's a real work of art and sounds great. Good luck, it sounds like you should have a barnburner. TJS
09-05-2013, 11:38 PM
#7
502 fit
P.S. With the headers uncorked, I can feel the hp increase (20-30). my setup definitely degrades the power because of the restrictive exhaust system and dual plane intake but with 550+hp on tap, who cares!
02-25-2014, 07:13 AM
#8
Headers
My '66 has a 496 installed and I used the stock 3885069 aluminum intake with AFR rec. port heads and a Holley 850. The hood fits fine with the stock breather. I also used a set of Hooker Super Comp ceramic undercar headers with a custom exhaust hooked to the sidepipes. It's a real work of art and sounds great. Good luck, it sounds like you should have a barnburner. TJS
I am Tobias from Germany. I also own a '66 with side pipes. I installed a 496 a couple of weeks ago as well. My plan is to get a custom exhaust built which fits under the original fiber glass exhaust covers.
I still have some questions with my project, hopefully you can help me: Are you using those headers: 2225-1HKR from Summit? Could you send or post some pictures from the underside and the engine compartment, especially from the steering box? Are you using a mechanical fuel pump? If yes, which one?
Thanks,
Tobias
02-25-2014, 01:56 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
We installed a 502 in our 67 in 1999 so there could have been some changes to the current crate engine offering since then. But below is the information I have sent to folks who have asked for what they could encounter:
Engine Components:
• Fuel Pump: The Mark V block we used did not have a provision for a mechanical fuel pump. You can mount an electric unit near the gas tank such as one from Holly. Here is a link for the Holly "Red" pump: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-12-801-1/ Many folks like the pump from Carter and here is a link to the unit sold through Summit Racing: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRT-P4602RV/ Both have internal pressure regulators. Since it's been some time since we installed ours there may be other options and I would suggest speaking with the Tech Dept. at Summit Racing to see what they recommend. We mounted the pump on the inside of the passenger side frame rail in the rear of the car. In that location it is close to the fuel tank, well protected and requires only a short fuel line to the pump. I mounted the fuel filter in the engine compartment.
• Clutch Mechanics: The Mark V block we used didn't have the forward location needed for the clutch cross-shaft but Scroggins-Dickey makes a plate for that. Here is the link to the Scroggins-Dickey part: http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...art&catid=1006 I used a hydraulic setup using McLeod components but it's much more involved than sticking with the mechanical linkage.
• Headers & Exhaust: On the aluminum head engines you need to look for headers which have flanges machined to clear the unique head bolt setup as well as match the "D" shape exhaust port. I got ours from Sanderson. They actually went out and bought a 502 engine in order to make the flanges fit right and ours were the first set they made. The model number is BB5. These clear everything nicely. They are also well made with a machine flange that doesn't even need to use an exhaust gasket. They just use a special sealant. Here is the link to Sanderson's home page: http://www.sandersonheaders.com/ With side exhaust you will have to fabricate the connection from the header collector to the side pipes. It's not all that difficult to do but does take some fitting and welding. After finishing ours I had them ceramic coated. There has been a lot of discussion of different side exhaust mufflers (e.g.. Spiral Turbo & Stainless Works) but I haven't tried either. I've heard some pros and cons regarding fit and performance on the Hookers as well but can't speak from experience on those. They may have come out with a new model since I last checked. I believe GM now recommends a 2-1/4" primary header tube but the Sanderson's are 1-7/8" which is the size they recommend. Here is a link to their tech advise on this subject: http://www.sandersonheaders.com/letsgettech3.htm and http://www.sandersonheaders.com/letsgettech3a.htm From their perspective bigger isn't always better. Another option for the headers and side pipes is Stainless Works who makes them in stainless or aluminized steel. Here is a link to their site and the page for side exhaust: http://www.stainlessworks.net/Corvet...0Sidepipes.htm A friend of mine who installed a 502 in his 67 bought these and they did have to do some work to make the header collector to side pipe connection. They also had to do some grinding to clear the head bolts on that engine. It didn't work out as a simple "bolt-on" but it's possible that those have issues have been addressed by now.
• Clutch & Flywheel: The crate engine comes with an automatic transmission flexplate so you will also need the externally balanced flywheel (168 tooth gear) and a stock big block bellhousing will work. We used the Centerforce Dual Friction clutch and pressure plate setup. The engine uses the mini high-torque starter which works great.
• Distributor: The crate engine comes with an HEI dist. which doesn't have a mechanical tach drive. I went with an MSD billet dist. but you also need to use a "mellonized" dist. gear since the roller cam will eat up a regular gear. I had to retro-fit the stock HEI gear but MSD or JEGS should now have the right type gear.
• Accessory Brackets: You'll need mounts and pulleys for the alternator, power steering and water pump. March is one good brand but these days there are several others available such as Billet Specialties.
• Motor Mounts: I like to use mounts from Energy Suspension as they are polyurethane and stronger than stock mounts.
• Cooling System: On the cooling side of things Be Cool, DeWitts and others make an aluminum radiator which will fit into the small block radiator support as well as ones for the big block support. They also have them with a dual fan and shroud setup which also comes with the sensing unit to turn the fans on and off and the relays. Normal big block hoses will work or you can use braided lines like I did.
Clearance Issues:
• Valve Cover: You have to watch for clearance between the driver's side valve cover and the power brake booster if you have stock power brakes. I had a custom one made for ours but have since found a dual diaphragm unit from Master Brakes that I would use now. Here is a link for Master Brakes http://www.mpbrakes.com/bs1007d.htm This one is a dual diaphragm so it should have the right boost characteristics. They also can provide the right bracket to mount right up. Another option (which we used on our 63) is an electric/hydraulic brake unit from ABS Power Brakes. Page 57 of their catalog shows that system: http://www.abspowerbrake.com/maincat...ameset006.html It's not an inexpensive unit but provides plenty of clearance and works great.
• Hood: Hood clearance can also be an issue since the mid-rise intake manifold is a little taller than an original intake manifold. A dropped base air cleaner and a big block hood will usually work. The triangular unit on ours was one that I had to make up. You can see what it looks like on the first page of our web site. I started with a unit from Billet Specialties which was still too tall so I had a quarter inch milled from the bottom flange and re-worked the stock 435HP air filter screen and foam filter to fit which lowered it just enough to clear the hood Stinger.
• Ground: You have to watch for clearance under your oil pan on these engines. While the stock 502 big block oil pan will clear the steering components it is a little deep especially if your car is lowered much from stock height. The way I lowered our car I only had 2 & 1/2" of clearance and that certainly wasn't the first thing I wanted to hit over a speed bump! GM Performance makes a 4 quart (5 with filter) pan that will give you more clearance. The oil pan is available from GM Performance Parts and the kit is #12495360. It comes with the pan, four main cap bolts, the oil pump screen, the oil level tube, dipstick and the pan gasket. I spoke with Moroso when I needed one and they didn't have one at the time but they now make a six quart pan with side kickouts to work with the one piece rear seal but I don't know their dimensions or how much clearance you gain with them. Jegs has them and I think that would also work. You might want to ask Moroso about the ones they have. Just be sure to get the one for the Mark V or VI engine as it has a one piece rear seal which is different than the Mark IV block.
Before I end up writing a small book (I might have passed that point already!) I'd better stop but hope the info above gives you some food for thought and helps with your installation. Just let me know if there is anything else where I might be of help and best of luck with your project.
Rich
Engine Components:
• Fuel Pump: The Mark V block we used did not have a provision for a mechanical fuel pump. You can mount an electric unit near the gas tank such as one from Holly. Here is a link for the Holly "Red" pump: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-12-801-1/ Many folks like the pump from Carter and here is a link to the unit sold through Summit Racing: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRT-P4602RV/ Both have internal pressure regulators. Since it's been some time since we installed ours there may be other options and I would suggest speaking with the Tech Dept. at Summit Racing to see what they recommend. We mounted the pump on the inside of the passenger side frame rail in the rear of the car. In that location it is close to the fuel tank, well protected and requires only a short fuel line to the pump. I mounted the fuel filter in the engine compartment.
• Clutch Mechanics: The Mark V block we used didn't have the forward location needed for the clutch cross-shaft but Scroggins-Dickey makes a plate for that. Here is the link to the Scroggins-Dickey part: http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...art&catid=1006 I used a hydraulic setup using McLeod components but it's much more involved than sticking with the mechanical linkage.
• Headers & Exhaust: On the aluminum head engines you need to look for headers which have flanges machined to clear the unique head bolt setup as well as match the "D" shape exhaust port. I got ours from Sanderson. They actually went out and bought a 502 engine in order to make the flanges fit right and ours were the first set they made. The model number is BB5. These clear everything nicely. They are also well made with a machine flange that doesn't even need to use an exhaust gasket. They just use a special sealant. Here is the link to Sanderson's home page: http://www.sandersonheaders.com/ With side exhaust you will have to fabricate the connection from the header collector to the side pipes. It's not all that difficult to do but does take some fitting and welding. After finishing ours I had them ceramic coated. There has been a lot of discussion of different side exhaust mufflers (e.g.. Spiral Turbo & Stainless Works) but I haven't tried either. I've heard some pros and cons regarding fit and performance on the Hookers as well but can't speak from experience on those. They may have come out with a new model since I last checked. I believe GM now recommends a 2-1/4" primary header tube but the Sanderson's are 1-7/8" which is the size they recommend. Here is a link to their tech advise on this subject: http://www.sandersonheaders.com/letsgettech3.htm and http://www.sandersonheaders.com/letsgettech3a.htm From their perspective bigger isn't always better. Another option for the headers and side pipes is Stainless Works who makes them in stainless or aluminized steel. Here is a link to their site and the page for side exhaust: http://www.stainlessworks.net/Corvet...0Sidepipes.htm A friend of mine who installed a 502 in his 67 bought these and they did have to do some work to make the header collector to side pipe connection. They also had to do some grinding to clear the head bolts on that engine. It didn't work out as a simple "bolt-on" but it's possible that those have issues have been addressed by now.
• Clutch & Flywheel: The crate engine comes with an automatic transmission flexplate so you will also need the externally balanced flywheel (168 tooth gear) and a stock big block bellhousing will work. We used the Centerforce Dual Friction clutch and pressure plate setup. The engine uses the mini high-torque starter which works great.
• Distributor: The crate engine comes with an HEI dist. which doesn't have a mechanical tach drive. I went with an MSD billet dist. but you also need to use a "mellonized" dist. gear since the roller cam will eat up a regular gear. I had to retro-fit the stock HEI gear but MSD or JEGS should now have the right type gear.
• Accessory Brackets: You'll need mounts and pulleys for the alternator, power steering and water pump. March is one good brand but these days there are several others available such as Billet Specialties.
• Motor Mounts: I like to use mounts from Energy Suspension as they are polyurethane and stronger than stock mounts.
• Cooling System: On the cooling side of things Be Cool, DeWitts and others make an aluminum radiator which will fit into the small block radiator support as well as ones for the big block support. They also have them with a dual fan and shroud setup which also comes with the sensing unit to turn the fans on and off and the relays. Normal big block hoses will work or you can use braided lines like I did.
Clearance Issues:
• Valve Cover: You have to watch for clearance between the driver's side valve cover and the power brake booster if you have stock power brakes. I had a custom one made for ours but have since found a dual diaphragm unit from Master Brakes that I would use now. Here is a link for Master Brakes http://www.mpbrakes.com/bs1007d.htm This one is a dual diaphragm so it should have the right boost characteristics. They also can provide the right bracket to mount right up. Another option (which we used on our 63) is an electric/hydraulic brake unit from ABS Power Brakes. Page 57 of their catalog shows that system: http://www.abspowerbrake.com/maincat...ameset006.html It's not an inexpensive unit but provides plenty of clearance and works great.
• Hood: Hood clearance can also be an issue since the mid-rise intake manifold is a little taller than an original intake manifold. A dropped base air cleaner and a big block hood will usually work. The triangular unit on ours was one that I had to make up. You can see what it looks like on the first page of our web site. I started with a unit from Billet Specialties which was still too tall so I had a quarter inch milled from the bottom flange and re-worked the stock 435HP air filter screen and foam filter to fit which lowered it just enough to clear the hood Stinger.
• Ground: You have to watch for clearance under your oil pan on these engines. While the stock 502 big block oil pan will clear the steering components it is a little deep especially if your car is lowered much from stock height. The way I lowered our car I only had 2 & 1/2" of clearance and that certainly wasn't the first thing I wanted to hit over a speed bump! GM Performance makes a 4 quart (5 with filter) pan that will give you more clearance. The oil pan is available from GM Performance Parts and the kit is #12495360. It comes with the pan, four main cap bolts, the oil pump screen, the oil level tube, dipstick and the pan gasket. I spoke with Moroso when I needed one and they didn't have one at the time but they now make a six quart pan with side kickouts to work with the one piece rear seal but I don't know their dimensions or how much clearance you gain with them. Jegs has them and I think that would also work. You might want to ask Moroso about the ones they have. Just be sure to get the one for the Mark V or VI engine as it has a one piece rear seal which is different than the Mark IV block.
Before I end up writing a small book (I might have passed that point already!) I'd better stop but hope the info above gives you some food for thought and helps with your installation. Just let me know if there is anything else where I might be of help and best of luck with your project.
Rich
02-26-2014, 11:24 AM
#11
[QUOTE=richscorvettes;1586259682]We installed a 502 in our 67 in 1999 so there could have been some changes to the current crate engine offering since then. But below is the information I have sent to folks who have asked for what they could encounter:
Rich
Thank you for the detailed information. I've got the engine installed already and drove about 600 mls till now. Many issues are worked out already. Luckily there is no snow currently in Germany, so I can do some testing and adjusting.
What I don't understand is that it doesn't rev more than 5200 rpm. The rpm range of the installed cam is from 2500 - 6000 (Competition cam CCA11-433-8). I thaught it might be the ignition. I changed the original transistor ignition against an MSD inginition. The result is that torque appears stronger and it runs smoother. So this seemed to be a correct change.
Now there are three things left, which might cause it not to rev higher. Fuel pump (I have a mechanical pump, the block is from 2007), carb (Holley street avenger 770 cfm) and exhausts (McJack headers with side pipes, but on each side two cherry bombs in a row). Those cherry bombs were installed in order to get it a bit more quiet for the German street laws. Maybe they are the cause. Any idea?
Here is what I built in in addition: Centerforce dual friction clutch, radiator from DeWitt.
Tobias
Rich
Thank you for the detailed information. I've got the engine installed already and drove about 600 mls till now. Many issues are worked out already. Luckily there is no snow currently in Germany, so I can do some testing and adjusting.
What I don't understand is that it doesn't rev more than 5200 rpm. The rpm range of the installed cam is from 2500 - 6000 (Competition cam CCA11-433-8). I thaught it might be the ignition. I changed the original transistor ignition against an MSD inginition. The result is that torque appears stronger and it runs smoother. So this seemed to be a correct change.
Now there are three things left, which might cause it not to rev higher. Fuel pump (I have a mechanical pump, the block is from 2007), carb (Holley street avenger 770 cfm) and exhausts (McJack headers with side pipes, but on each side two cherry bombs in a row). Those cherry bombs were installed in order to get it a bit more quiet for the German street laws. Maybe they are the cause. Any idea?
Here is what I built in in addition: Centerforce dual friction clutch, radiator from DeWitt.
Tobias
02-26-2014, 12:29 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Tobias,
I hadn't realized that you had already installed the engine. From your picture it looks like a well done installation.
The 502 isn't a very high revving engine. I believe the stock crate engine develops it's highest horsepower and torque up to 5,000 rpm before dropping off. I'm not sure how the cam you used would affect that aspect but don't believe that would have a negative impact.
The other aspects you mentioned all could have an influence. I know the exhaust system can have a very significant impact on power output and the carb you have used seems a bit small for that engine. Our engine came with an 850 Holley carb which I used. It's difficult to point to anything more specific long-distance but think I would try changing the exhaust to see how that works. It would be interesting to see what a dyno run would reveal with your existing exhaust system and after changing to a freer flowing system.
Rich
I hadn't realized that you had already installed the engine. From your picture it looks like a well done installation.
The 502 isn't a very high revving engine. I believe the stock crate engine develops it's highest horsepower and torque up to 5,000 rpm before dropping off. I'm not sure how the cam you used would affect that aspect but don't believe that would have a negative impact.
The other aspects you mentioned all could have an influence. I know the exhaust system can have a very significant impact on power output and the carb you have used seems a bit small for that engine. Our engine came with an 850 Holley carb which I used. It's difficult to point to anything more specific long-distance but think I would try changing the exhaust to see how that works. It would be interesting to see what a dyno run would reveal with your existing exhaust system and after changing to a freer flowing system.
Rich
02-26-2014, 11:47 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
performance issue
I would just like to add this to the conversation:
I run a newer ZL1 block stroked to 496 cu. in. w/ a Carter mech. fuel pump; Holley 770 avenger; MSD Dist.; Centerforce dual friction clutch and handmade side exhaust headers w/ 2.75 internal dia. at the sidepipe.
However, I am running a comp cams solid roller camshaft and some very good head work to go with it.
With this combination I can easily pull to 6500 rpms and beyond.
Head work can play a big roll in your performance issues. I am not sure of what you have done there.
Other issues: could be carb and dist. associated - curve needs to be adjusted; jet changes, accelerator pump, cams; vacuum advance pod (canister) - ported vs direct manifold vacuum.
You may be right about your cherry bombs - they may be too restrictive.
Hope this helps a bit.
65-StingRay
I run a newer ZL1 block stroked to 496 cu. in. w/ a Carter mech. fuel pump; Holley 770 avenger; MSD Dist.; Centerforce dual friction clutch and handmade side exhaust headers w/ 2.75 internal dia. at the sidepipe.
However, I am running a comp cams solid roller camshaft and some very good head work to go with it.
With this combination I can easily pull to 6500 rpms and beyond.
Head work can play a big roll in your performance issues. I am not sure of what you have done there.
Other issues: could be carb and dist. associated - curve needs to be adjusted; jet changes, accelerator pump, cams; vacuum advance pod (canister) - ported vs direct manifold vacuum.
You may be right about your cherry bombs - they may be too restrictive.
Hope this helps a bit.
65-StingRay
02-27-2014, 02:30 AM
#14
Thanks for the input. I am working on all the mentionend adjusting areas (trial and error). Based on the cam there is not much vacuum at idle anyway, so ported or manifold vaccum doesn't make a big difference. My setup is ported vacuum.
Attached is a picture of the current exhaust system. I know, it really looks awful. I have an oppointment with an exhaust bulider around easter time. Till now I thaught I could stay with the McJack headers, but now I think I am going to order Hooker Super Competition Headers (link). .
I don't know exactly which head work was done, but my engine builder sets up Chevy engines since around 20 years. He said he did a lot in order to optimize the flow.
Just one more question: which flow rate does the (mechanical) fuel pump need?
Tobias
Attached is a picture of the current exhaust system. I know, it really looks awful. I have an oppointment with an exhaust bulider around easter time. Till now I thaught I could stay with the McJack headers, but now I think I am going to order Hooker Super Competition Headers (link). .
I don't know exactly which head work was done, but my engine builder sets up Chevy engines since around 20 years. He said he did a lot in order to optimize the flow.
Just one more question: which flow rate does the (mechanical) fuel pump need?
Tobias
02-27-2014, 08:49 AM
#15
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Watkinsville, GA and Glen Cove, NY
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Tobias,
Just a warning about those Hooker headers you are contemplating. I tried those on my 69 and they would just not work. Virtually no ground clearance and the collectors were right up into the floorboards. Cutting off the collector flange might have made them work better but I ended up not using them for that reason. I think the 1 7/8 tube ones are better for clearance. I know all these cars are somewhat different but just a warning. I think Hedman makes a 2 inch primary that fits much better and I know people have used it to connect to a side exhaust under the stock C2 covers. Personally I think your mufflers are causing way more restriction than your headers. What size primaries on those headers? It seems as in your setup, if you go to a longer primary tubed header (Hooker), the bend to connect to the side exhaust would be more pronounced. That would seem to me to kill any benefit of the better header. As long as the primaries on your headers are at least 1 7/8th's I would focus on the back end of the system. My 2 cents.
Bill
Just a warning about those Hooker headers you are contemplating. I tried those on my 69 and they would just not work. Virtually no ground clearance and the collectors were right up into the floorboards. Cutting off the collector flange might have made them work better but I ended up not using them for that reason. I think the 1 7/8 tube ones are better for clearance. I know all these cars are somewhat different but just a warning. I think Hedman makes a 2 inch primary that fits much better and I know people have used it to connect to a side exhaust under the stock C2 covers. Personally I think your mufflers are causing way more restriction than your headers. What size primaries on those headers? It seems as in your setup, if you go to a longer primary tubed header (Hooker), the bend to connect to the side exhaust would be more pronounced. That would seem to me to kill any benefit of the better header. As long as the primaries on your headers are at least 1 7/8th's I would focus on the back end of the system. My 2 cents.
Bill
Last edited by 69ttop502; 02-27-2014 at 09:02 AM.
02-27-2014, 08:47 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Tobias
On average - a mech. fuel pump puts out about 7 PSI I believe. As far as flow rates are concerned I am not sure what exactly your asking?
Read this article: http:www.camaros.org/pdf/timing101pdf. It will help tremendously with some of your tuning issues.
After looking at the pics of your exhaust system, the headers you have look fairly restrictive.
Compare this pic of a Hedman side exhaust header (left) and one I had made for myself:
[IMG]
[/IMG]
They are stepped down from a 2" diameter pipe at the primary end to 2 1/8" dia. ten inches down the primary tube and into a 3" collector at the end.
If you look closely you can see the welds.
[IMG]
[/IMG]
Check out Stahl Headers at http:www.stahlheaders.com
They build really nice side exhaust headers. Mine are patterned similar to the Stahl headers by the fellow that built them.
65-StingRay
On average - a mech. fuel pump puts out about 7 PSI I believe. As far as flow rates are concerned I am not sure what exactly your asking?
Read this article: http:www.camaros.org/pdf/timing101pdf. It will help tremendously with some of your tuning issues.
After looking at the pics of your exhaust system, the headers you have look fairly restrictive.
Compare this pic of a Hedman side exhaust header (left) and one I had made for myself:
[IMG]
[/IMG]They are stepped down from a 2" diameter pipe at the primary end to 2 1/8" dia. ten inches down the primary tube and into a 3" collector at the end.
If you look closely you can see the welds.
[IMG]
[/IMG]Check out Stahl Headers at http:www.stahlheaders.com
They build really nice side exhaust headers. Mine are patterned similar to the Stahl headers by the fellow that built them.
65-StingRay
02-28-2014, 02:05 PM
#17
65-StingRay
Thank you again for your input. Your headers are exactly what I am looking for. Unfortuantely it seems that those headers do not to exist for sale. If you are willing to built a set me you can send an offer to me as a private mail (no joke).
Stahlheaders is out of business. They only do clean up sales. So I need to look for somebody in Germany to built those headers. Do you also have a picture of the exhausts from the underside, so that I can see how they are attached to the headers?
Tobias
Thank you again for your input. Your headers are exactly what I am looking for. Unfortuantely it seems that those headers do not to exist for sale. If you are willing to built a set me you can send an offer to me as a private mail (no joke).
Stahlheaders is out of business. They only do clean up sales. So I need to look for somebody in Germany to built those headers. Do you also have a picture of the exhausts from the underside, so that I can see how they are attached to the headers?
Tobias
03-01-2014, 04:11 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Tobias - hope these pics help.
Listen, on a side note - how I got my headers built locally.
I asked around everywhere I went that had anything to do with hot rodding. Had a garage sale one day and of course I was almost finished my build when a fellow at the sale was inquiring about what was in the garage. So I showed him my project and we got to talking and he steered me in the direction of a guy who makes headers for snowmobiles and motorcycles.
I got a hold of this fella' and he came buy - loved what I was doing and said he would be happy to make me a set.
I guess what I'm trying to tell you is - there is someone locally who can weld real well and he can make you a set. You've just got to find him.
Your first step would be to get an impression of your exhaust off of the heads so you can build the header flange first. Flange should be 3/8".
Other issues are how tall the exhaust ports on the heads and the shape of the exhaust chambers i.e. D-shaped, oval, etc.
All the more reason to find someone locally.
I had to have a few fitment changes as they came together. That meant a few more visits. In the end the $1500.00 it cost was well worth it.
I had them ceramic coated inside and out. The heat reduction inside the engine compartment is astounding. In 5 minutes you can wrap your hands around them with out burning.
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If you need more pics or info, let me know I will help if I can.
65-StingRay
Wayne
Listen, on a side note - how I got my headers built locally.
I asked around everywhere I went that had anything to do with hot rodding. Had a garage sale one day and of course I was almost finished my build when a fellow at the sale was inquiring about what was in the garage. So I showed him my project and we got to talking and he steered me in the direction of a guy who makes headers for snowmobiles and motorcycles.
I got a hold of this fella' and he came buy - loved what I was doing and said he would be happy to make me a set.
I guess what I'm trying to tell you is - there is someone locally who can weld real well and he can make you a set. You've just got to find him.
Your first step would be to get an impression of your exhaust off of the heads so you can build the header flange first. Flange should be 3/8".
Other issues are how tall the exhaust ports on the heads and the shape of the exhaust chambers i.e. D-shaped, oval, etc.
All the more reason to find someone locally.
I had to have a few fitment changes as they came together. That meant a few more visits. In the end the $1500.00 it cost was well worth it.
I had them ceramic coated inside and out. The heat reduction inside the engine compartment is astounding. In 5 minutes you can wrap your hands around them with out burning.
[IMG]
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG]If you need more pics or info, let me know I will help if I can.
65-StingRay
Wayne
03-01-2014, 04:51 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
Tobias,
Went out to the garage and took a couple more pics to show some more details of the exhaust.
Here you are:
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[IMG]
[/IMG]
[IMG]
[/IMG]
65StingRay
Wayne
Went out to the garage and took a couple more pics to show some more details of the exhaust.
Here you are:
[IMG]
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG][IMG]
[/IMG]65StingRay
Wayne
03-01-2014, 07:08 PM
#20
Racer
I went that route about 14 years ago, installing a 502 in my 69 which had a standard BB hood whereas the car was originally an L36.
It's been a long time, so i'll do my best to recall some points that may ??? be of some interest:
1. I remember being adamant about being able to close the hood and still retain the original GM base and chrome lid so I wound up with a Eldelbrock Torquer 2 intake (a great low profile single plane performance manifold) not sure if the hood clearance on a 69 is similar to a BB 66 hood, my guess is they're very close to one another?
2. Big engines require big carbs !!! ---- I wound up with a 850 that was reworked into a 950 (no choke horn) by one of the specialty carb shops, though I can't recall who at the moment??
3. I have noticed several comments pertaining to fuel pumps --- believe me they are exactly correct. You will need something more capable than a stock pump for sure or you will run out of gas at the end of the 1/4 mile !!! I used the holly blue race pump with a pressure regulator which was sufficient for the track. You might be able to get away with a mechanical race pump , but not sure? Your 3/8 fuel line will be fine up to 600 HP ---- beyond that you may need to move up to 1/2" line which can be done without removing the existent steel line. Serious HP demands fuel volume as well as pressure.
4. As you know there is no provision for clutch pivot ball (for the Corvette location). I remember purchasing fabricated a steel bracket that I believed attached to the bell housing somehow which worked very well; however I also remember making up some kind of gusset to add additional rigidity to the bracket. Additionally I recall having the pivot ball surface ground down slightly above the center line of the ball to be able to have sufficient clearance to get the Z bar onto the ball.
5. Needs to breath !! The headers I used passed through the openings in the frame and connected to a 3" mandrel bent system that I had custom made. The system also incorporated a balance tube and Borla mufflers.
That's about all I can recall right now, and bare in mind that I was drag racing so I wanted to optimize the 502's maximum potential with the stock hood. If you not intending to race than a quality performance mechanical fuel pump and a basic 850 Holley will work fine; however you will be hard pressed to find more capable intake that sits as low as a Torquer 2.
Good luck ----- GREAT ENGINE easy 10 second car right out of the crate !!
It's been a long time, so i'll do my best to recall some points that may ??? be of some interest:
1. I remember being adamant about being able to close the hood and still retain the original GM base and chrome lid so I wound up with a Eldelbrock Torquer 2 intake (a great low profile single plane performance manifold) not sure if the hood clearance on a 69 is similar to a BB 66 hood, my guess is they're very close to one another?
2. Big engines require big carbs !!! ---- I wound up with a 850 that was reworked into a 950 (no choke horn) by one of the specialty carb shops, though I can't recall who at the moment??
3. I have noticed several comments pertaining to fuel pumps --- believe me they are exactly correct. You will need something more capable than a stock pump for sure or you will run out of gas at the end of the 1/4 mile !!! I used the holly blue race pump with a pressure regulator which was sufficient for the track. You might be able to get away with a mechanical race pump , but not sure? Your 3/8 fuel line will be fine up to 600 HP ---- beyond that you may need to move up to 1/2" line which can be done without removing the existent steel line. Serious HP demands fuel volume as well as pressure.
4. As you know there is no provision for clutch pivot ball (for the Corvette location). I remember purchasing fabricated a steel bracket that I believed attached to the bell housing somehow which worked very well; however I also remember making up some kind of gusset to add additional rigidity to the bracket. Additionally I recall having the pivot ball surface ground down slightly above the center line of the ball to be able to have sufficient clearance to get the Z bar onto the ball.
5. Needs to breath !! The headers I used passed through the openings in the frame and connected to a 3" mandrel bent system that I had custom made. The system also incorporated a balance tube and Borla mufflers.
That's about all I can recall right now, and bare in mind that I was drag racing so I wanted to optimize the 502's maximum potential with the stock hood. If you not intending to race than a quality performance mechanical fuel pump and a basic 850 Holley will work fine; however you will be hard pressed to find more capable intake that sits as low as a Torquer 2.
Good luck ----- GREAT ENGINE easy 10 second car right out of the crate !!