i received the ncrs shipping report for my 62
02-19-2014, 04:54 PM
#41
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St. Jude Donor '07
There are no sources, Bill.
That's why various clubs.... Camaro, Chevelle, Corvette, etc. have begun data bases to accumulate the names of dealerships associated with Zone/Dealer numbers.
Nobody is holding out on you.
The info is not available.
It would be great to find lists of EVERY dealer in EVERY zone, during different years, but it ain't gonna happen.
Here's another curve ball..........
In the beginning, things were alphabetized. Hypothetically, Aardvark Chevrolet would be Dealer #1 in whatever zone......
Lets pick Zone 15.
Aardvark Chevrolet was Zone 15 Dealer 1 hypothetically.
After a few years, Aardvark Chevrolet was sold to Joe Zulu, and it became Zulu Chevrolet. It was STILL Zone 15, Dealer 1.......
Chuck
That's why various clubs.... Camaro, Chevelle, Corvette, etc. have begun data bases to accumulate the names of dealerships associated with Zone/Dealer numbers.
Nobody is holding out on you.
The info is not available.It would be great to find lists of EVERY dealer in EVERY zone, during different years, but it ain't gonna happen.
Here's another curve ball..........
In the beginning, things were alphabetized. Hypothetically, Aardvark Chevrolet would be Dealer #1 in whatever zone......
Lets pick Zone 15.
Aardvark Chevrolet was Zone 15 Dealer 1 hypothetically.
After a few years, Aardvark Chevrolet was sold to Joe Zulu, and it became Zulu Chevrolet. It was STILL Zone 15, Dealer 1.......
Chuck
Bill
02-19-2014, 05:15 PM
#42
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St. Jude Donor '07
i tried various google searches: variations of 'zone 20 dealer 523 in 1962' and looked in various other GM model websites (there is no correlation between Olds/Pontiac/Buick/Chevrolet; they all have their own systems...)
i still don't understand why, if the number 523 is correct, 521 & 522 are there
Bill
02-19-2014, 05:34 PM
#43
Team Owner
On one like this, I tried something that might be worth the effort!
Find out what year dealerships 521 and 522 were established. Then do a year search on that year and the next year!
Basically some of these dealerships have a history or comment on their website if it was a long time dealership. But there aren't that many that didn't change hands and thus names. Your car is a 1962, so don't know!
In business since "_____" . Also the internet is so clogged up with advertising, it is hard to get past all of those sites to find good stuff! My internet search said there were like a million hit when I keyed in things like "Chevrolet Zone Code 523 Dealership, or Chevrolet Zone 20 or Chevrolet 20-523, or a number of other searches I tried!
It also seemed like everyone Chevelle, Camaro, Corvette etc. are linking into the same website. But with going thru the NCRS, they cross it to your VIN and you get the certificate!
What I said about the multiple dealership is usually more of a small town thing. There are and where dealerships that sold multiple GM makes all off of the same lot. I searched some of those also!
Basically some of these dealerships have a history or comment on their website if it was a long time dealership. But there aren't that many that didn't change hands and thus names. Your car is a 1962, so don't know!
In business since "_____" . Also the internet is so clogged up with advertising, it is hard to get past all of those sites to find good stuff! My internet search said there were like a million hit when I keyed in things like "Chevrolet Zone Code 523 Dealership, or Chevrolet Zone 20 or Chevrolet 20-523, or a number of other searches I tried!
It also seemed like everyone Chevelle, Camaro, Corvette etc. are linking into the same website. But with going thru the NCRS, they cross it to your VIN and you get the certificate!
What I said about the multiple dealership is usually more of a small town thing. There are and where dealerships that sold multiple GM makes all off of the same lot. I searched some of those also!
02-19-2014, 05:41 PM
#44
Team Owner
That's because your car really came from Zone 51 in Roswell, NM.
It started life as a weather balloon.
It started life as a weather balloon.
02-19-2014, 06:36 PM
#45
Team Owner
I might be bad at Zoology, but was an excellent student of geography!
, and Roswell, NM was in a different dealership Zone!!!! And the Government is still sticking to the story of the weather balloon!!!!! Uh!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 02-19-2014 at 08:41 PM.
02-19-2014, 08:24 PM
#46
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There is no single source for the NCRS information - the VIN and production date and dealer/zone #'s come from original microfiche records of an internal Chevrolet Shipping Report, and the dealer name gets culled from separate/partial old listings from several zones and other historical records that overlap and were issued at different times from different locations.
That's why sometimes the dealer name is a "mystery", as over a period of time, the same dealer number could belong to different dealers (or to the same dealer physical location, but under different ownership).
That's why sometimes the dealer name is a "mystery", as over a period of time, the same dealer number could belong to different dealers (or to the same dealer physical location, but under different ownership).
02-19-2014, 10:03 PM
#47
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Welcome to the world of tracing your car's history.
Read JohnZ's post.........
There is NO secret source for this info.
NICB has the delivery records, but they are likely very similar if not the same as the NCRS records from Chevrolet. To get the NICB records, you need to be a police officer, officer of the court, etc. and request them WITH a case number/court number. If you're a police officer just trying to help a buddy out, you might lose your job.
Chuck
02-20-2014, 03:56 AM
#48
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"Dealership Zone 20 Code 527. It was in my personal notes!!!!!! That I keep for my personal stuff on my own car, and for my own neighbor, etc... and not with my general Chevrolet stuff or Corvette stuff! "
I thought he was looking for dealer code 523 not 527????
I thought he was looking for dealer code 523 not 527????
02-20-2014, 04:04 AM
#49
Team Owner
OOPs!
It's late and I am tired, I did accidently get off on the wrong number 527 and got carried away! Maybe I should erase before he wakes up. I think I will!!!! Darn it. Thanks for the save! I had better keep looking! Good save, I owe you! Thanks!
Hey Bill and everyone I was watching some Olympics and went to the back room to get notes and from leaving my livingroom with 523 in my head, and after digging, I walked out with notes thinking 527 and not 523, and so I thought I had it! Thus Bill I will keep looking to see what I can find!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 02-20-2014 at 04:24 AM.
02-20-2014, 06:56 PM
#50
Team Owner
As some of you know, I in the course of walking to the back of my house!
Forgot 523 and transposed 527 in it's place. I had posted up a whole bunch on 527!!!! But then a member came on and said, what are you doing- wrong number! And I was able to take it all down before Bill woke up, I think!!!
Well, I am feeling bad, so I checked further and I am thinking that that 523 given could possibly be wrong, because nothing is showing up on it. In searching and I know proper Los Angeles based dealerships, but not so much San Diego back in the day, or IE area back in the day and most of the dealerships in searching everything-- Corvettes, Impalas, Trucks, Novas, Camaros, Chevelles, Monte Carlos threads or cars for sale with paperwork am not coming up with this number, but are coming up multiple times for all of the other dealerships that I know or have notes on. But then there are just a few that haven't shown up in my general searching-- like Baher in San Fernando and Baher in Manhattan Beach, even though I have the Baher code for the Beach! But not one hit on 523!!!!!!
By accident I came up on the 527 that has been linked to Taylor and to Sorenson Chevrolets (Ed Taylor Chevrolet and Bob Sorenson Chevrolet). That coincidence keeps bothering me!!!!! Thus the S & T maybe???????? I wonder if the fish is so bad that someone guessed at a 3 and it is actually a 7. Sorenson was on a different street in the same town of Whittier and Taylor was a few miles away. But they have been crossed up by accident on the internet! And have been accidently linked to the same 527 number!!!!! Even though Sorenson is 047 or whatever I had written down and an older dealership! Thus Bill, just maybe!!! But I don't know how to get ahold of that microfish!!!!
My mistake in research might just be a good thing!!!!!! But then just watch, the 523 will pop up magically and make me look stupid!!!!! I would write NCRS and ask them for a recheck on the number and could it be 527.
What I don't like about NCRS, well that would be an entire thread!! So I will stop!!! OK what I don't like about this NCRS shipping report thing is that the certificate is great and all, but I would rather have a photocopy of the report that they found it on!!!! So I will pick on them about one thing only here and not start a thread!!!!
Well, I am feeling bad, so I checked further and I am thinking that that 523 given could possibly be wrong, because nothing is showing up on it. In searching and I know proper Los Angeles based dealerships, but not so much San Diego back in the day, or IE area back in the day and most of the dealerships in searching everything-- Corvettes, Impalas, Trucks, Novas, Camaros, Chevelles, Monte Carlos threads or cars for sale with paperwork am not coming up with this number, but are coming up multiple times for all of the other dealerships that I know or have notes on. But then there are just a few that haven't shown up in my general searching-- like Baher in San Fernando and Baher in Manhattan Beach, even though I have the Baher code for the Beach! But not one hit on 523!!!!!!
By accident I came up on the 527 that has been linked to Taylor and to Sorenson Chevrolets (Ed Taylor Chevrolet and Bob Sorenson Chevrolet). That coincidence keeps bothering me!!!!! Thus the S & T maybe???????? I wonder if the fish is so bad that someone guessed at a 3 and it is actually a 7. Sorenson was on a different street in the same town of Whittier and Taylor was a few miles away. But they have been crossed up by accident on the internet! And have been accidently linked to the same 527 number!!!!! Even though Sorenson is 047 or whatever I had written down and an older dealership! Thus Bill, just maybe!!! But I don't know how to get ahold of that microfish!!!!
My mistake in research might just be a good thing!!!!!! But then just watch, the 523 will pop up magically and make me look stupid!!!!! I would write NCRS and ask them for a recheck on the number and could it be 527.
What I don't like about NCRS, well that would be an entire thread!! So I will stop!!! OK what I don't like about this NCRS shipping report thing is that the certificate is great and all, but I would rather have a photocopy of the report that they found it on!!!! So I will pick on them about one thing only here and not start a thread!!!!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 02-20-2014 at 07:03 PM.
02-21-2014, 05:14 AM
#52
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All things good come to those who wait.
People spend years tracing car ownership histories.
Chuck
HINT: If you bought a repro window sticker from Triple A, and told them the options you wanted printed on the sticker, AND told them that your car came from Zone X Dealer Y.......... they might be more inclined to check into it.
02-23-2014, 04:41 PM
#54
Team Owner
Ok, here is where I am at!
First I have been picking up interesting Dealership related stuff for the better part of 25 years, but never really had a need to or thought about researching Zone and Codes until I tried to do so in just this last year to help a few members like Rex (Dr. L-88).
Therefore I was not an expert, but I am now for Zone 20 known as Los Angeles but covering a broader area than just LA. Second there is no numerical sequence of assigning these. They also don't have any correlation to issuing a number in sequence either by year. Thus they are all over the place. Numbers that are similiar can be far and wide apart!!! They also reissued prior issued codes for Dealerships that had closed down, to another dealership that was not even close to the same location. But this was actually I found rare! Also some of the larger volume dealerships had multiple codes, because some I found had cars brought in an stored at addresses that aren't so well known and definitely not advertised. Mann Chevrolet is one of those with Zone/Code 20-321 and 20-307. Therefore for the general entire rest of the Country (from Seattle to Maine/Florida) I would bet this all rings true for everyone, similarly to what I found in general for Zone 20.
I also knew that the outlying areas of San Diego and as far as like San Bernardino and quite a ways up north were assigned Zone 20 and their are alot that did retain Zone 20, But San Diego and outlying areas are ending up with Zone 34. And up north, some of those have gotten the Oakland Zone of 06 on them in recent years.
Let me load this so I don't lose this typing! Then I will edit and it would be easier to tell everyone, what I didn't find!!!!!
I didn't find Zone/Code for this list:
Cone Anaheim- [/B](believed right at the beginning of the 60's) but very short term, if they were even in Anaheim under that name. I feel they bought out another Marques dealership location, but then had the plan already to move to Fullerton, and or there was a split up of the family and one of the brothers stayed in Anaheim for a slightly longer period than I beleive). I bet it was so quick, they didn't even contact GM about it all, until a little later!
Cone Fullerton- (1st Location off of Harbor, which I have a picture of and an address for and existed in the very beginning of the 1960's) I think because of space, they set up Zone and Code for Commonwealth and used that as the delivery for car shipments being something more than just a building with little lot space.
Ernie Porter- (up in Pasedena, I have a Post Card of it, just have to find it and get the address and verify the City-- Also I think the Zone/Code is 20-297)
Robert Hal- (was located up in Tujunga)
Courtesy- (but this one and there are many Courtesy Chevrolets (the most common dealership name) but this one was essential in what is Gardena now, but was formerly Los Angeles 90005 on 866 S. Western Ave. )
Win- (there is a Win up in northern California, but I might of turned up one down in Long Beach)
and Oscar Gregory Chevrolet- (which was in Paramount is what I have listed, I think it was a former Ownership to the now Current Georges Chevrolet on Lakewood)
I am going to load again!
It is funny but the Zone/Codes that I have where I haven't Identified them, are similar in number (count) as the number of Dealerships just above that I have questions on:
20-083 (nothing on this one, just Los Angeles)
20-297 (which I believe is Ernie Porter-- last in business 1967)
20-379 (Some clown in the Corvette world and a few others have a Zone 20 Kentucky dealership on an invoice, one of those fabricated ones and will not let it go, "that it is phony"!!!!!), but this number is with both Ostrom in Montebello in about 1973 and also with Paramount Chevrolet which was in Downey in 1970! Thus I did all of this research and came down to this one and stopped. Straw that breaks the Camels back thing, so I will go back and figure it out later!
20-511 (I have this code linked positively to a dealership, but not as early as 1963, which is a mystery to me, probably another phony invoice! )
20-523 (this thread and I have nothing!!!!!!), thus recommendation would be to search this list above of Dealerships because I can't see any others really missing. I went thru Zone 20 pretty thoroughly).
20-574 (nothing)
That's it guys! And just so guys don't try to solicit me, I will finally charge (let's make it a $1000 bill sounds good to me), that absolutely should stop anyone short of Donald Trump from bothering me. Also guys or topics that I choose to help, no rhyme or reason (sometimes I just feel like helping), and I am bored right at the moment awaiting the rain delay at Daytona, and thought I would share that I am now an expert on Zone 20!!!!! And in consideration of what I see, I am now ahead of NCRS and the Chevelle forum on Zones and codes for Zone 20!!!!
Thus as long as it is nothing that is totally weird, like some of the phony created paperwork stuff, I will help only exactly two forum members "FOR FREE" on a Zone 20 info question or concern!!! Thus ready set go! Just two!!!! (Disclaimer-- if I can, but I feel confident in what I now know!) But lastly, there could be numbers that just never got issued! Thus someone might come up on one of those, because the only thing that I haven't done and don't know if I will, is to check from 20-001 to 20-999 sequentially to see what numbers were and weren't used in Zone 20, but I have now way over a hundred Zone 20 Dealerships with thei codes and addresses!.
Everyone is that fair?
,
Therefore I was not an expert, but I am now for Zone 20 known as Los Angeles but covering a broader area than just LA. Second there is no numerical sequence of assigning these. They also don't have any correlation to issuing a number in sequence either by year. Thus they are all over the place. Numbers that are similiar can be far and wide apart!!! They also reissued prior issued codes for Dealerships that had closed down, to another dealership that was not even close to the same location. But this was actually I found rare! Also some of the larger volume dealerships had multiple codes, because some I found had cars brought in an stored at addresses that aren't so well known and definitely not advertised. Mann Chevrolet is one of those with Zone/Code 20-321 and 20-307. Therefore for the general entire rest of the Country (from Seattle to Maine/Florida) I would bet this all rings true for everyone, similarly to what I found in general for Zone 20.
I also knew that the outlying areas of San Diego and as far as like San Bernardino and quite a ways up north were assigned Zone 20 and their are alot that did retain Zone 20, But San Diego and outlying areas are ending up with Zone 34. And up north, some of those have gotten the Oakland Zone of 06 on them in recent years.
Let me load this so I don't lose this typing! Then I will edit and it would be easier to tell everyone, what I didn't find!!!!!
I didn't find Zone/Code for this list:
Cone Anaheim- [/B](believed right at the beginning of the 60's) but very short term, if they were even in Anaheim under that name. I feel they bought out another Marques dealership location, but then had the plan already to move to Fullerton, and or there was a split up of the family and one of the brothers stayed in Anaheim for a slightly longer period than I beleive). I bet it was so quick, they didn't even contact GM about it all, until a little later!
Cone Fullerton- (1st Location off of Harbor, which I have a picture of and an address for and existed in the very beginning of the 1960's) I think because of space, they set up Zone and Code for Commonwealth and used that as the delivery for car shipments being something more than just a building with little lot space.
Ernie Porter- (up in Pasedena, I have a Post Card of it, just have to find it and get the address and verify the City-- Also I think the Zone/Code is 20-297)
Robert Hal- (was located up in Tujunga)
Courtesy- (but this one and there are many Courtesy Chevrolets (the most common dealership name) but this one was essential in what is Gardena now, but was formerly Los Angeles 90005 on 866 S. Western Ave. )
Win- (there is a Win up in northern California, but I might of turned up one down in Long Beach)
and Oscar Gregory Chevrolet- (which was in Paramount is what I have listed, I think it was a former Ownership to the now Current Georges Chevrolet on Lakewood)
I am going to load again!
It is funny but the Zone/Codes that I have where I haven't Identified them, are similar in number (count) as the number of Dealerships just above that I have questions on:
20-083 (nothing on this one, just Los Angeles)
20-297 (which I believe is Ernie Porter-- last in business 1967)
20-379 (Some clown in the Corvette world and a few others have a Zone 20 Kentucky dealership on an invoice, one of those fabricated ones and will not let it go, "that it is phony"!!!!!), but this number is with both Ostrom in Montebello in about 1973 and also with Paramount Chevrolet which was in Downey in 1970! Thus I did all of this research and came down to this one and stopped. Straw that breaks the Camels back thing, so I will go back and figure it out later!
20-511 (I have this code linked positively to a dealership, but not as early as 1963, which is a mystery to me, probably another phony invoice! )
20-523 (this thread and I have nothing!!!!!!), thus recommendation would be to search this list above of Dealerships because I can't see any others really missing. I went thru Zone 20 pretty thoroughly).
20-574 (nothing)
That's it guys! And just so guys don't try to solicit me, I will finally charge (let's make it a $1000 bill sounds good to me), that absolutely should stop anyone short of Donald Trump from bothering me. Also guys or topics that I choose to help, no rhyme or reason (sometimes I just feel like helping), and I am bored right at the moment awaiting the rain delay at Daytona, and thought I would share that I am now an expert on Zone 20!!!!! And in consideration of what I see, I am now ahead of NCRS and the Chevelle forum on Zones and codes for Zone 20!!!!
Thus as long as it is nothing that is totally weird, like some of the phony created paperwork stuff, I will help only exactly two forum members "FOR FREE" on a Zone 20 info question or concern!!! Thus ready set go! Just two!!!! (Disclaimer-- if I can, but I feel confident in what I now know!) But lastly, there could be numbers that just never got issued! Thus someone might come up on one of those, because the only thing that I haven't done and don't know if I will, is to check from 20-001 to 20-999 sequentially to see what numbers were and weren't used in Zone 20, but I have now way over a hundred Zone 20 Dealerships with thei codes and addresses!.
Everyone is that fair?
,
Last edited by TCracingCA; 02-24-2014 at 01:12 PM.
02-27-2014, 07:31 AM
#57
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St. Jude Donor '07
Chuck
me too (and probably so the 1664 post viewers so far...).
the shipping report, with the exception of the production date (which is now also suspect in my mind given the 'fuzziness' of the other information...), is about worthless
IF they would provide a pic of the microfiche data along with the certificate, then there would be some support for their 'fuzziness'....
Bill
me too (and probably so the 1664 post viewers so far...).
the shipping report, with the exception of the production date (which is now also suspect in my mind given the 'fuzziness' of the other information...), is about worthless
IF they would provide a pic of the microfiche data along with the certificate, then there would be some support for their 'fuzziness'....
Bill
02-27-2014, 07:43 AM
#58
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Chuck
me too (and probably so the 1664 post viewers so far...).
the shipping report, with the exception of the production date (which is now also suspect in my mind given the 'fuzziness' of the other information...), is about worthless
IF they would provide a pic of the microfiche data along with the certificate, then there would be some support for their 'fuzziness'....
Bill
me too (and probably so the 1664 post viewers so far...).
the shipping report, with the exception of the production date (which is now also suspect in my mind given the 'fuzziness' of the other information...), is about worthless
IF they would provide a pic of the microfiche data along with the certificate, then there would be some support for their 'fuzziness'....
Bill
Chuck
02-27-2014, 08:04 AM
#59
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St. Jude Donor '07
welllll, considering i recently used the NCRS info to update my C1 registry info (i don't remember what it was originally before i put in 7/25 from the report).....
but the car 8 cars before mine (14477) has a date after mine (7/30) and the next/last one produced (14531) 46 cars later (8/1), i'd say the numbers don't jive....
are there other calculators other than the "C1" registry?
Bill
Last edited by wmf62; 02-27-2014 at 08:13 AM.
02-27-2014, 08:59 AM
#60
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Chuck
welllll, considering i recently used the NCRS info to update my C1 registry info (i don't remember what it was originally before i put in 7/25 from the report).....
but the car 8 cars before mine (14477) has a date after mine (7/30) and the next/last one produced (14531) 46 cars later (8/1), i'd say the numbers don't jive....
are there other calculators other than the "C1" registry?
Bill
welllll, considering i recently used the NCRS info to update my C1 registry info (i don't remember what it was originally before i put in 7/25 from the report).....
but the car 8 cars before mine (14477) has a date after mine (7/30) and the next/last one produced (14531) 46 cars later (8/1), i'd say the numbers don't jive....
are there other calculators other than the "C1" registry?
Bill
Also, you don't know where those other registry numbers came from.
Chuck