fastfreddie63

Did I get your attention. Sorry I posted earlier but only got one reply.

On my 63 L76 I replaced my 10 year old (7,678 mile) Champion RY18YC with some new AC R45's; torqued to 25 ft. lbs. and snug. Took pictures of my old plugs for any feedback. Looks like they all have a golden brown/amber color; but a little rich looking. #8 appears to have been a tad loose as is had some resdue on the side. What do you think? Listed pictures of cylinder order (right to left): 1&3, 5&7, 2&4, 6&8, and finally the side of #8. It runs like a champ. Didn't check the timing last night but ever since I replaced the points with a breakerless module (8 years ago) it's ran very smooth since.
Thoughts on the plug conditions?

Bluestripe67

I'm no mechanic, FWIW I don't think they look very good. I see a rich condition, and plenty of oil contamination across the board. My gut guess is you don't drive the car much and when you do, you don't get on it. I think a cylinder pressure test is in order. You may have a oil burning problem. What else/history can you tell us about the engine? Dennis

Westlotorn

It looks like you are burning oil and using octane booster. The orange color showing I suspect caused by octane boost. If you are going to read plugs it is a good idea to take a 50 mile drive including some highway miles before changing them to get a good honest read.

fastfreddie63

As far as I know the engine is stock. Engine was rebuilt in 1980 by Booth-Arons here in the Detroit area. Engine was 'blueprinted and balanced' to stock specs. I assume the Duntov cam was used (car sounds normal). 1980-1987 car had about 6,500 put on it. 1988-2004 car basically sat with occasionaly starting and short drives (under 10 miles). I tried not to ever let it sit for too long between running it. Ocassionally, it was driven up to about 25 miles. Frame was very weak.

In 2004, car had a body off frame/chassis restoration. New Champion plugs, +wires, +cap were installed by the restorer and appeared to be gapped correctly at 35 thou. Since then I have put the mileage on; about 700-800 per year. I use octane boost most of the time on a refill of 93 octane (usually 10% ethanol gas) and occasionally add lead substitute for the valvetrain. I have replaced the fuel pump once since 2004. When I got the car back in fall of 2004 from it's resto. I replaced the carburetor with the correct 3461s and adjusted it to factory spec. per the service manual. In 2005 I replaced the distributor with the correct one (after it was tested and shimmed) At the same time I replaced the points with an electronic conversion. I also replaced the coil with a new stock coil. I reset the timing to spec. at the correct hot engine idle of 750 rpm.

Engine runs very well; especially since I upgraded the points. I think I have driven the car - as intended. I drive in a normal condition for me; like I drive my other vehicles and occassionally get a lead foot. I do 'get on it' from time to time and have taken it up to around 4500 rpms. I have squeaked the tires between shifts to 2nd and 3rd a few times but I generally do not drive it that hard. On highway I like to drive between 70 and 80 and am not afraid to downshift and GO! For the last three years I have run Brad Penn 10w30 syn.blend motor oil. Prior to that it was whatever was available for a 10w30. Oil and filter are changed annually. Car does not burn much oil (no smoke or anything unusual) I can go a whole year and only be down 1/2 qt. or so. I had a leak at the rear main and pan which have been fixed so no leaks currently.

MikeM

If even an old engine is mechanically sound and in proper tune, using E 10 gasoline, the plugs should be CLEAN even after number of miles you are reporting.

You have a problem there. Not sure what it is by the pictures. I would quit using the octane booster for sure.

Westlotorn

The plug gaskets appear to be leaking on some also.
With the cast iron heads the factory does say 26-30 ft pounds on initial new install or without a torque wrench to use 1/2 to 5/8 of a turn after going in finger tight.
Aluminum heads use slightly lighter torque and the tapered seat plugs on later heads have a separate spec also. Plugs are simple I have never used a torque wrench on one and knock on wood have had no issues YET. I like the 1/2 to 5/8 turn after finger tight it is simple and fast. On cast iron heads a loose plug will leak and can work on your threads, tight plugs are just a little harder to pull out when you replace them.

Do you get blue smoke out the exhaust on start up?

This is an L79, 4,500 RPM is just warming it up. Call back when you have seen 6,000 on the 2-3 shift.

MikeM

leif.anderson93

By the looks of those plugs it's hard to believe that the car is running "very well", as you say. Those plugs are pretty well fouled with oil and a "fat" fuel mixture. After doing a compression check (and all checks out) I would definitely check your valve guides. You say you're only down 1/2 quart when you check the level...it doesn't take much oil to foul the plugs like yours are. I, also, agree...ditch the fuel additives.

fastfreddie63

No blue smoke on start up nor any smoke anytime that I am aware of. To clarify it's a 1963 327/340 L76 motor. Maybe I've hit 5k on the rpm but not higher. No thanks on 6k; I like my engine in one piece. I'll shoot a close up of a couple of plugs after 50 miles or so, I got 35 on them now. I'll see if I can get a hold of a compression tester and report back. Yes, It runs real well - seriously. Maybe I don't know what running well really means. I only replaced these plugs thinking ten years was long enough and knew I had champion and was anxious to try the ACr45's. So far so good.

Got it...no more additives. Gives me more beer money anyway.

MikeM

The best thing to do with that car is leave the hood shut and quit worrying about it if it "runs well".

63split63

Put in a new set of plugs first !
Bill

Westlotorn

No blue smoke on start up indicates your valve guides are working well, 1/2 quart a year sounds pretty good but at 700 miles a year maybe not so good.
At 700 miles per year I am guessing many short trips which are hard on a carbureted engine. It takes 4-5 miles just to warm up to operating temp and get your choke open. Take time to roll it at highway speed often and enjoy it more. At 700 miles per year you may be dealing with old fuel issues on top of the oil use. Run it get some fresh gas and it may be just fine.
Ask Donny Brass if these engines can run above 4,500 and stay reliable. He is my poster child for enjoying the 327 C2 with stock components. I think they are very reliable stock up to 6,000, maybe not beyond that. Just my 2 cents.

MikeM

It just dawned on me who these guys are. Haven't heard their names in years.

Did they build your engine to stock OEM spec or is that a Ricky Racer engine built for "stock" competition?

http://www.streetlegaltv.com/forum/a...1&d=1251905690

Frankie the Fink

I used to pull plugs that looked like that out of cars my Dad traded in back in the '60s and the owner was perfectly happy with the car's performance and never knew the difference. If I weren't ready to solve the oil/mixture issue I might run a hotter plug...

Sooner or later the "rent comes due" though....

fastfreddie63

I am not sure what exactly is done as I don't have that receipt unfortunately and the records are long gone - I checked into this. My assumption is it was done to stock OEM spec.; which the idle seems a characteristic of. Wish I had the detailed receipt; although back then it probably didn't say much other than 'B&B rebuild'.

{quit worrying about it if it "runs well"} I'm really NOT worrying about it just thought I'd share as they seemed surprisingly fouled when I pulled them. I'm not planning on any rebuild anytime soon as a quality paint job is next. I'm not sure if the ACr45 is colder than the Champion RY18YC? I read somewhere that the heat range AC equivalent is a 46; hotter thant he 45's I just put in. In the meantime I plan on doing a compression test and leak test this spring to isolate. It's probably the rings after years on inadequate use. I'll keep you posted.

66since71

I see lead fouled spark plugs every week from aircraft engines. You would not believe how bad a plug can look and still perform as intended. While you have an accumulation of carbon on the perimeter of the plugs, the electrodes look very good. I'd make sure you've got the idle mixture right, especially the way you drive it.
Oil on that #8 plug might be from a leaking valve cover gasket. It's unlikely it's blowing out the threads.

Harry

fastfreddie63

I seem to remember having trouble determining the proper adjustment for the idle mixture screw when I installed the correct 3461s carb. It's supposed to be set to give peak vacuum at hot idle speed. I didn't use a vacuum gage when I set it. What should be peak?

66since71

I don't recall the number, just tune (at idle speed, with the choke full open) for a peak. Alternately you can lean it until the idle speed rolls off, and then go back a quarter or half turn rich.
Harry

Westlotorn

Depending on engine condition and cam type idle vacuum can be normal at 12 inches or 21 inches. If yours is the stock 340 HP I would expect 17-18 inches at idle just tune to the best reading.

fastfreddie63

I seem to recall now based on your procedure that this is exactly how I did it. I will have to re-check it to see if it's still optimal for hot idle speed.