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Johnz, once again you are amazing! Thanks for the pictures. 66vette2, it shifted fine before the clutch problem. At least it shifted okay.
I took the cover off and I don't see anything that looks worn. Probably not looking in the right spot. I'll look at it more closely when I get a chance. Need to put the arms in to see what is happening and look at the 1-2 when it is turned to see why it isn't messing with the notches.
Okay, took cover off as seen above. Then got the shifter arms in it and cleaned it up really good like Johnz's picture. (Well, there's gasket material still on it.) Now, it works with nice hard stops. Snaps into all positions like it should. How is that possible? Can't fix anything if it works correctly. I guess that I should put it back together and see if it still works. I'll get the stuff back together later today or tomorrow if I can and report how it went. Thanks again for you guys help!!
Okay, I think that our friend gravity was at work. Even though it worked out of the car, there was a nagging question as to why it didn't in the car. So, I took the shifters out and one of them has the end worn. Even though it looks like it was machined from the wearing instead of a break, I would imagine that it should look squared off like the other one. Does this mean that I have wait on parts once again to get a new one? I would imagine so.
Allrighty then. Got two new forks and gasket set ordered.
Do you think that an exorcism on this car is in order? If it could blow green pea soup on me, I'm sure that it would. It seems that it is possessed and wants to have another thing pop up as soon as I get the last thing fixed. It's almost like it never ends. One thing leads to another. Then another non-related thing. I do have to admit though, that everything that I've fixed sure does look nice and pretty.
Unfortunately, this is an all to familiar pattern with cars that are 40 to 50 years old. Replace one worn part and suddenly those other parts the new part connect to don't work properly or look even shabbier next to it. Called mission creep. Wait until you tackle rebuilding the suspension - that ultimately led to my downfall - a full body off rebuild.
And the suspension, from doing modern cars, seems so innocuous and easy. Just replace that rubber bushing..and that tie rod end... Now go get an alignment. Done.
Or does something more sinister lurk just beyond view? ....... Glad to see that you have survived Dan! I can see how this can make it seem that there is no light, just dark tunnel ahead.
I know what you mean though. I don't want to rebuild the transmission. Probably want a 5 or 6 speed sometime.... and a LS3 and new chassis, and ..........Oh the humanity!!!!
Scott I thought it was wax on, wax off... At least that sounds easier.
This car was restored to like new in 1981. Funny, that didn't sound like it was that long ago, but it is! Now, since it has sat in Texas, (no rust) it seems to have dry rot in anything rubber and plastic is brittle. Electrical wires are stiff and there is always an electrical issue draining something or making this or that not work. I have a Painless wiring harness and that will be the next project, but it would be nice if it could be on the road for a few days before diving back in to Pandora's box. Maybe I should name it that. Pandora. Sounds fitting.
Allrighty then. Got two new forks and gasket set ordered.
Do you think that an exorcism on this car is in order? If it could blow green pea soup on me, I'm sure that it would. It seems that it is possessed and wants to have another thing pop up as soon as I get the last thing fixed. It's almost like it never ends. One thing leads to another. Then another non-related thing. I do have to admit though, that everything that I've fixed sure does look nice and pretty.
Since we're in a similar position (I have my late Dad's '65), I look at it this way - it's my Dad's way of playing yet one more practical joke on me...like when I realized he put the rear shock bolts on backwards before putting the body back on.
To go in. The wiring is so old and brittle that it constantly has some kind of issue. Once I get it running, hopefully this week, I still have to disconnect to battery every time that it is turned off. This issue is in the dash wiring right now.
Of course, it has also had an ignition problem caused by wiring, and another one where the rear brake lights would intermittently go dark. Shake the wires under the dash and sometimes they would come back on. Other times, not.
I know that Lectric Limited has exact ones but they are over $1K and won't let me add much later. If I were to upgrade to an LS setup and save the original engine and transmission, I would think that the Painless would be better suited to it. I imagine that it will be much more involved to go Painless (anything but painless) but I did get a brand new one on craigslist for $125 still in the box.
Hey Tossin, that's funny! For now, the adjustable pivot has solved the clutch problem or so it seems. Just waiting on Clutch forks to be able to put it back together and see if it works.
Well, got it all back together this weekend. Tranny slid right in and flush. Hooked everything back up……Oh no! Not again! It’s doing the same thing. Shifts fine with car off. Once engine is running, it won’t shift at all. Clutch not working. I adjusted the rod every way that I could from no play to almost to the floor. What is going on?
I put a new Mcleod adjustable pivot in. I measured everything first. The new Luk clutch is .080 less thick than the original one that was on there. So, since the flywheel was .961 and spec is .960, I added the .080 to the pivot ball which means that instead of 4.75, it is 4.67. Should be perfect. I was thinking that this time it will be fine since the tranny slide right in. What else could it be?
The previous weekend, I put the new forks in the tranny and two holes stripped out on the cover plate. Got some helicoils and that fixed that. Put the tranny back in and it leaked from the cover plate with the new gasket. Well had to pull the tranny and found some old gasket on the cover plate. I had scraped the tranny of gasket material but somehow didn’t notice the cover. Then, one of the 47 year old bolts broke off in the cover. Got that out and procured new bolts. Finally got that fixed and was fine. It sat until this weekend. It all went back together so nicely but it’s a no go once again. I so hope that I don’t have to pull it all out again. Any ideas on what it could be?
Can you feel the pressure from the fingers depressing when you actuate the clutch pedal, or does it (the pedal) just go easily down?
If you can't change gears with the engine running, it can only mean that the transmission input shaft is turning. So either the clutch is not disengaging, or the pilot bushing is binding on the input shaft.
You can definitely feel pressure on the clutch pedal. I think that the pilot bushing be very good this time as the transmission slid up into the pilot bushing very nicely. It makes me think that is has to still be the geometry with the fork. What else could it be? It is SO frustrating. I thought that this time it would be fine. It did make a little swishing sound when I pressed the clutch in. A wisp sound. Like a slow ceiling fan. Just did that a few times. Mostly, no sound, just no shift.
Swishing sound from only slight disengagement?
Do you get pressure the whole way?
Can you see up into the pressure plate while someone depress clutch?
Is your z-bar cracked?
Yes, only sound was when pedal was down. It only made a sound a couple of times. Mostly, no sound.
Yes there is pressure the whole way. I set it with about 1-1.25 inches of free play, but definitely pressure on the pedal. I set it from no play to very excessive play. When I remounted the pressure plate and bellhousing, I adjusted the rod to almost midway just to get the throwout bearing to not touch the fingers. Then, when stabbing the transmission, I moved it out towards the end some.
No I don't think that you can see into the pressure plate. If the inspection cover is off, you only see that engine side of the flywheel. I don't know how you would see into the pressure plate while someone depresses the clutch. I would think that it is all internal and hidden. If you know of a way, I'd certainly like to know. I guess if you took off the clutch fork boot, you might could but I don't know.
The Z bar seemed fine when I cleaned it up and sprayed it with black and then urethane clearcoat. I guess that I should watch it closely.
I have a new clutch fork, identical to the old one, a new pivot ball extended out .080 to compensate for the thinner pressure plate and new springs on the fork.
Thanks for you help as this is just baffling once again.
Have verified the throw out bearing is the same height as the old one that worked? I had a similar problem a long time ago. Used up all the adjustment on the threaded rod. Couldn't completely disengage. It turned out the to bearing included with the kit was incorrect length. (maybe not incorrect, but different from old)
I saw another post suggest this, but I am not clear on your response.
I have my clutch all back in for over a month with all smooth engagements and disengagements. If you have all the correct linkage (pedal bracket, pushrod, bell crank, fork rod, and fork and it's all tight), I'd move on. 67 had there own clutch pedal with the bracket welded on. Check it out-
L1966-1967 ALL:
3888279 Cross-Shaft - 155° Arm Separation, 4-3/4” and 4-1/4” centers
3888213 Pedal Pushrod – 19-1/4” long
3872960 Fork Pushrod – 8-9/16” long
3872963 Pedal Bracket (1966 only)
It looks from the pics you have a stock bell housing. No need to check your concentricity. I did this and it was almost in perfect spec.
Your flywheels thickness seemed close to spec. I think you really didn't need to use the adjustable stud. Thats what the adjustment up on the pushrod is for (flywheel resurfacing and disk wear). Mine is pretty close to the end, but thats the way it should be with a new set up. But your math seemed right (with the clutch kit being off) with the previous diagram post, so you should be ok there.
Is your fork locked in on the ball stud? It can slide off when you slide in the input shaft of the muncie through the TO bearing.
Did you use guide pins on the bell housing to put the muncie back in? You can cause damage if you let it hang from the pressure plate. Maybe enough damage for it not to totally disengage. But maybe you just have a bad pressure plate.
After having 2 federal throw out bearings failing (rear seal leaking), I went with the composite one in the LUK kit. It's a better design and hasn't caused a lick of issues (yet).
If the input shaft is sliding in the brass bushing without force. I doubt you have any binding there.
Yes Tiros, the TOB was the same size. It's a Centerforce as I didn't want to use the composite from LUK.
Hi Timmah22. Yes, I used guide pins so that it never was hanging on the shaft.
I talked to Wes today, and he thinks it can only be one of two things. Either I have a bad clutch (It was .080 less thick than the one that came off. He wanted me to make sure that it is actually a 04-021 since it didn't come in a Luk box. It came in a USPS box with no packaging.) I checked pictures and it appears to be the correct one. Possible made in China or something I wonder. Or the pivot isn't far enough out still.
He said that the pivot ball needs to be extended about 3/16 further than stock. I only had it at .080. The flywheel had at least .100 taken off he thinks. I looked and in 1981, it was resurfaced when Dad and I restored the car. I can't figure out how the flywheel is right on spec at .960-.961 after all of that surfacing but that is what it measured. The flywheel bolts stick through by about .015" suggesting that it is thinner.
He's not seen a car that had this much trouble getting the clutch to work. So, it looks like I will have to pull the tranny again and get the ball out further. This just sucks. I wish that it didn't have to go all back together to find out if it works or not.
08-28-2014, 07:05 PM
It's almost like it never ends. One thing leads to another. Then another non-related thing. I do have to admit though, that everything that I've fixed sure does look nice and pretty.
I have my clutch all back in for over a month with all smooth engagements and disengagements. If you have all the correct linkage (pedal bracket, pushrod, bell crank, fork rod, and fork and it's all tight), I'd move on. 67 had there own clutch pedal with the bracket welded on. Check it out-