Captain Bud

I have a 1960 with the basic 283 and a Carter 4 barrel. When I go to start it, I set the choke by pushing the gas pedal to the floor, let it up then crank the engine. The engine starts but loads up quickly and seems to be flooding out. I then try to get it started by holding the gas pedal to the floor while I crank it. It fires on a few cylinders but doesn't start. The only way I can get it to start is have my buddy hold the choke open then it starts right up and he can release the choke, the engine runs at a high idle until it warms up a little, then I can kick it down to a normal idle.
I thought if I hold the gas pedal down it also opened the choke plate to "clear" the flooded engine. Apparently either I'm misinformed or the choke is not working normally. I have the choke adjustment set to a lean position but that makes no difference. This is NOT an electric choke but a hot air type.
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Bud Weisser

JohnZ

You need to adjust the choke unloader, which opens the choke blade slightly as soon as the engine starts, to provide adequate air to keep it running.

Captain Bud

The carb does not have a vacuum unloader. I've checked numerous exploded views and can't find anything that would open the choke after the engine starts.

magicv8

I disconnected the choke on mine and started the car with a few pumps on the throttle, even in freezing weather, for over 20 years. Give the engine a minute to get warm and drive.
Today's gasoline formulation makes engine management a nightmare for old carburetors with chokes.

Captain Bud

What did you disconnect to make the choke inop?

Frankie the Fink

There is no legitimate reason to disconnect the choke. Modern gas has nothing to do with choke operation.

The choke will work perfectly if you do a little maintenance on it and it DOES have a vacuum unloader of sorts so you haven't dug deeply enough in your research. The classic problem with the WCFB choke is a sticky piston in the chamber that "unloads" the choke immediately after start up. The choke piston chamber gets carbon fouled after years of use and requires a thorough cleaning.

Sometimes carb cleaner spray will work but some get fouled so badly that it takes Hoppes no. 9 gun cleaning solvent and a brass brush and you have to scrub it just like a rifle bore until the choke piston moves freely.

plaidside

Frankie beat me to it.
All automatic choke systems have some type of choke unloader, break or pull-off designed into the carburetor. Most hot air choke systems use an integral unloader, there is a brass piston inside the choke housing as Frankie has posted. Over the years they gum up or carbon forms when the choke tube in the manifold develops a leak.
Here is a break down of the parts.
Joe

Captain Bud

Frankie, I see exactly what I need to do. Thanks, Bud

Captain Bud

Frankie, I took the choke apart and the unloader was clean and moved freely.
When I tried to start it, the car loaded up again and failed to start. I held the choke open and it started right up. I noticed when the engine is cold, the choke plate is closed completely (like a clam shell). Shouldn't it be open about a quarter of an inch to permit some air to get in. I can adjust it to that with the rod on the opposite side of the carb.
What are your thoughts?

Frankie the Fink

On an ice cold engine in cold temps it is normal for the choke to be completely closed; however in higher temps or right after the car starts the choke should quickly move to only partially closed allowing air to pass. Sounds like a simple adjustment to me. Here is how I do it. On a cold morning, while holding the throttle linkage wide open and the choke housing screws loose, rotate the housing until the choke JUST closes all the way and then back off just enough until it breaks loose again then tighten the housing screws.

HOWEVER, just for troubleshooting purposes you could adjust the choke to leave 1/8" to 1/4" gap open on a cold motor just to see if that solves your problem.

There is also a choke 'unloader' adjustment you should set (see picture)...you can use a drill bit instead of the gauge shown.

NOTE THE POSITION OF THE CLAMP as shown on the rod that goes through the choke valve on the upper air horn. I have seen this installed backwards more times than I care to recount (see red arrow).

L78racer

the manifold vacuum path to the choke housing could be plugged.
i think the vacuum path is the same one where the left turn stumble comes into play. maybe someone plugged it to "cure" that problem.
FTF does this make sense?

plaidside

Have you checked the welsh/freeze plug at the bottom of the choke housing? Make sure it is there.
If it is present then remove the choke tube and start the engine, you should feel vacuum at the choke cover fitting.
If you do not have vacuum then the unloader will not operate.
Joe

Frankie the Fink

Of course there has to be vacuum to make the unloader work.
Do the checks indicated above.

Captain Bud

Frankie, I followed the instructions as best I could. I tried it this morning and it loaded up pretty bad after I set the choke by pushing the gas pedal to the floor. I then held my foot to the floor and it started but the smoke was unbelievable. Looked like a diesel starting in 10 below temperature. The engine smoothed out in about 30 seconds and the smoke stopped.
I'm about to pull the carb and send it out to some reputable carb shop if I can find one.
Thanks for all your help. I sure appreciate it.
Bud

Frankie the Fink

Send it to Rob Kunz in the midwest or www.daytonaparts.com in Florida.

I was just up at Daytona Parts yesterday where they put my '63 Carter AFB carb on their 'test mule' engine (I know these folks well and get some special consideration) and I discovered a vacuum leak and several other minor issues. Ron and Tim there know their stuff!

Unfortunately - the 'turn around' at either outfit is 6-8 weeks I'm told. You COULD call Daytona Parts and talk to Ron and maybe he could walk you through a fix - he's done it for me before over the phone.

You could also just turn your choke housing as before W-A-Y back so the choke thermostatic spring never makes the choke valve close. This effectively disables the choke without wiring anything open or disconnecting linkage.

With the warm weather and normal rich-running nature of WCFBs you could get by with that temporarily but I would want to get the carb fixed properly.

Pilot Dan

What's your fast idle speed on start up?? It should be above 1500 RPM, if not that needs to be adjusted first. The choke can easily be removed, disassembled and cleaned with the carb still on the car. If it's running OK when it's warmed up, you should be able to address the cold choke operation by itself with good results.

Frankie the Fink

You're late to the game -- he's done all that.

Pilot Dan

Really ? I don't see that he lists his fast idle speed. There may be an adjustment to the rod on the drivers side that could help. Also, he does not mention if he cleaned the vacuum port on the choke. Just because it moves freely does not necessarily mean it will work.

Captain Bud

I completely agree with you. The carburetor probably does not need a complete rebuild. Once I get the car started, it runs beautifully.
Carburetors, heart transplants, and bomb disposal are beyond my abilities and I'm smart enough to realize my limitations.
Thanks to everyone that tried to walk me through the repair.
Bud