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Put a complete new wiring harness in a 1960 including turn signal switch. On two different occasions I have been told that one of my brake lights did not work. Turn signals worked fine. Since they both use the same bulb and the power source goes through the turn signal switch I started fiddling with the turn signal switch. If I step on the brakes and just move the signal lever a small amount the brake light on that side goes out. Moving the lever on further allows the lamp to blink. So it appears my new turn signal switch is causing the problem. I purchased this switch from CC. Is there a better one on the market or do all the vendors use the same source? Suggestion on how to fix mine if nothing better is available.
Do you think it could be a ground problem instead of the switch? Just a thought, but I'd recheck all the ground connections before pulling the steering wheel. Good luck
Moving the turn signal doesn't change the ground. The problem is in the turn signal switch. The voltage from the brake light switch is interrupted for each rear bulb so the flasher voltage can be inserted instead for the turn signal. You'll need to adjust the turn signal switch so the voltage is present all the time when the brake is pressed to both bulbs in the center position. If you can't, I suspect you may have a flaky turn signal switch. I've read a lot of complaints here about the replacement turn signal switches. Hopefully, someone can supply a source for a good one.
The new switch may be defective based on your test results, but your mechanical ring or collar or other attaching parts could be the problem.
You can definitively prove it's the switch........by removing all of the mechanical pieces from the hub. Just leave the switch installed. Carefully use a small tool to activate the switch to each position and test the results.
If it works, then adjust and lube the mechanism pieces as it may be that.
Here's a diagram of the switch to help. You can use a ohm meter with the wires disconnected from the rear harness to make it a little easier to troubleshoot.
Years ago I had a similar problem on a '61 when slight movement of the turn signal lever would cause a brake light to go out. Solution was to rotate the entire turn signal housing around the steering column until the "sweet spot" was found where everything worked, then to tighten the clamping screw on the forward side of the housing so as to prevent any movement relative to the column.
I don't know how that could work since the slot for the turn signal lever in the housing must be indexed so the lever is out the left side and horizontal when centered; moreover the forward housing has to index properly to the housing under the steering wheel that holds the canceling pins.
It sounds like this is just the classic centering problem with the switch and there are several simple fixes for it. A forum search will yield dozens of examples.
OK, I spent several hours inside my turn signal switch housing and this is what I have found.
Frankie's comment led me to this link http://www.rarecorvettes.com/RARE/TurnSignalRepair.html which addressed the problem. The cam is not returning the switch to true center, however, the switch contacts in the centered position must be very small because a slight movement away from center will extinguish one of the brake lights. I think the switch is the root cause of the problem. Couple that with 54 year old parts that do not want to return to dead center and you have the brake light problem I have.
The Rare Corvette repair document shows a slightly different centering spring than what is in my '60 but I tried all his suggestions and still have the same results. The lever does return to center but the switch is so sensitive to position that I find that I have to jiggle the lever a little to make sure it is in exact center.
I supposed I will order all new parts just to see if that helps but since so many repro parts of of poor quality I am not to optimistic.
Thanks for everybody's help. At least I know I have a documented problem.
BTW, the Rare Corvette site has lots of good tips.
OK, I spent several hours inside my turn signal switch housing and this is what I have found.
Frankie's comment led me to this link http://www.rarecorvettes.com/RARE/TurnSignalRepair.html which addressed the problem. The cam is not returning the switch to true center, however, the switch contacts in the centered position must be very small because a slight movement away from center will extinguish one of the brake lights. I think the switch is the root cause of the problem. Couple that with 54 year old parts that do not want to return to dead center and you have the brake light problem I have.
The Rare Corvette repair document shows a slightly different centering spring than what is in my '60 but I tried all his suggestions and still have the same results. The lever does return to center but the switch is so sensitive to position that I find that I have to jiggle the lever a little to make sure it is in exact center.
I supposed I will order all new parts just to see if that helps but since so many repro parts of of poor quality I am not to optimistic.
Thanks for everybody's help. At least I know I have a documented problem.
BTW, the Rare Corvette site has lots of good tips.
Steve
Steve,
Yes, Joe is a great source of information. 25+ years ago he helped me do my first Corvette soft top restoration and top installation.........over the phone! I saw a article he wrote in the NCRS Restorer and I had a few questions and called him. He was so helpful and I solved all of my problems with his guidance. A great guy then, and still today. He was my mentor, and I always looked forward to his restoration articles in the magazines.
So, back to your switch issue.......One last thing you may want to try. The switch may in fact be defective, however based on your test results you may be able to cheat it a little by readjusting it's position. Loosen the 2 switch attach screws a bit. Move the switch to reposition it a little towards the end where it's intermittent, then tighten it down. It may take a few tries.
If this doesn't help, it sounds like the internals are out of spec and you need a replacement switch. I've found the repros are mostly hit or miss these days. I usually open up the originals and clean/adjust contacts as they're a much better quality to start with.
Thanks for the suggestion Rich. I would certainly like to find an original to use. It doesn't even have to have wires. I can reuse the ones on my repro. I may resort to buying a new repro and taking it apart to see if I can "improve" it someway.
The joys of this hobby, there's always something to improve on.
Thanks for the suggestion Rich. I would certainly like to find an original to use. It doesn't even have to have wires. I can reuse the ones on my repro. I may resort to buying a new repro and taking it apart to see if I can "improve" it someway.
The joys of this hobby, there's always something to improve on.
Steve, The switch heading your way is the one with the cut wires. It tested fine.
I had another switch and took it apart to show the internals. It's quite simple, but the contacts can get dirty so sometimes a simple cleaning is all that's needed. I'll be using this one on a present restoration. But notice the wiring. Originals have a ribbon harness, where all of the wires were banded together. GM replacements had the split wiring like this one pictured.
I'd suspect the marginal quality control of the Asian manufacturers has gotten us again on the repros, if that's your problem. The next time I get a bad repro I'll dissect it to see where the flaws are.
Thanks Rich, I'll dissect mine when I replace it and we can see the difference then. I know one of the rules for replacing parts on these cars is to never through anything away and I thought I kept all my old wiring but apparently I did not keep the switch. I don't remember if it was original or not.
So it appears my new turn signal switch is causing the problem. I purchased this switch from CC. Is there a better one on the market or do all the vendors use the same source?
Steve
I bought a repro directional switch two weeks ago from Eckler's and am having the same problem. My cancelling cam wants to center in the place where my right brake light doesn't work, but not so far that the right directional is activated. Since the switch I'm replacing is not original anyway, I'm going to try to use the tips on this thread to make the repro work. I'll hopefully get the steering wheel off this week and let you all know how it turns out.
Since several of us are having this problem, I decided to open the bag of my repro switch to test it. I was going to send it back since I found a nice original, but I'm curious how it will work.......I'm disappointed right out of the bag.....
Observations:
1- The switch slider is very loose.
2- The contact have grease all over them as I look inside.
3- One of the 4 tabs on the metal cover is not bent over at all, and one is just barely.
4- Tested operation. Failed miserably. The reading on the Rt Stop/Directional (Dk Blue Dir mode via Yellow) was very high.
5- Opened it up. It's a mess inside.
6- The contacts are soft brass
7- The springs are very weak
8- When I push on the slider, the repro has a large gap.
I took my original GM Switch apart again to compare.
The springs on the original compress at 14 oz.
The repro springs compress at 8 oz.
The original slider width is 0.200".
The repro slider width is 0.192".
The original has no appreciable gap between the slider and the case.
The repro has a very large gap.
Add it all up and this reproduction has some serious flaws. I don't know who makes it, or where it's made. I'll try to find out tomorrow.
The bag is marked 53C-13000-CV. Interesting code on the bag, 0061212. That was my birthday 2 years ago. Hmmm. HB me.
Rich, I am actually surprised to see that the contacts appear to be the same size. Based on the performance of my switch, I figured they would be much smaller. It appears the combination of grease and weak springs may be most of the problem. Do you think cleaning it up and stretching the springs might help the switch work better along with crimping the tabs over to give a tighter fit?
I'm thinking the price of used originals may be going up. I will certainly be on the lookout for old harness's with the original switch just for future use.
When I restored my '54 I had a heck of a time getting the repro switch to work correctly. I ended up using the original switch after soldering the new wires I clipped off the repro switch on it. Works great. Repro switch went in the trash.
08-28-2014, 10:17 PM
Turnn signal kills brake lights
