redvetracr

I`m not naming any names but often times big checkbooks try and make up for lack of talent

Pop Chevy

That happens even in Formula 1 !!!

sub006

Couple problems with the otherwise nicely-done GS replica "000":

1. Blades in the front fender side vents do NOT extend past the openings.
2. Front fender peaks do NOT extend into headlight doors or covers.

gbvette62

I can't argue with what your saying here. Some of the incidents were clearly "racing accidents", while others??????

It was announced at the driver's meeting, that the 13/13 rule was in effect for the weekend, and that they would be enforcing it! I can't say that I heard of anybody being penalized, under the rule though.

In the case of Clare Schwendemen, it was strictly a one car accident, of his own doing. He crashed on the out lap, of Group 6's first time on track, and he was the first car out. I think his wreck was just a matter of too much speed, on cold tires and a dirty track. I had actually just warned Jim to be careful and make sure to clean his tires good, because I had noticed that his tires had picked up quite a bit of gravel, on his way to the grid. I'm pretty sure that Warren Agor's damage was from a one car incident too.

I have no idea what happened between Larry Ligas and Frank Beck, though both car's seemed to have front end damage. I'm guessing that one spun, and the second car couldn't stop?

Curt Vogt and Chuck Bentley, race each other regularly. From what I've seen, they're both talented and fast drivers. Like many racers, they can both be aggressive, but I'm pretty sure that their "get together", was just a racing accident.

Now as to Klutt and Ahrle, that was purely speculation, on my part. I based my assumption on the fact that the two of them came through turn 1, with Ahrle in the lead, and no rear quarter panel damage to his car on one lap, and the next time through 1, Klutt was leading and Ahrle was 8th and damaged.

Jim almost collected a Mustang, in Sunday's feature race. A friend of ours races a 65 Mustang notchback, and was sharing it with his son at The Glen. His son drove on Sunday, and was pushing it pretty hard. I don't know how old he is, but I'm guessing no more than 20? He passed Jim at the start, and luckily Jim was giving him a little space, as he hadn't raced with him before. Coming back onto the short course from The Boot (Turn 9?), he spun in front of Jim. Jim just missed him, and Daniel (the Mustang's driver) came over after the race and apologized to Jim, and thanked him for not hitting him!

If Jim had hit him, I guess we would have found out what they were doing about the 13/13 rule. We caught the spin on my Gopro, and as soon as I get it edited, I'll post it here.

I like Tony, and I think he has done a good job, with the SVRA so far. It has to be a tough balancing act, regulating a series where you want real racing, and not just a rolling car show, but at the same time trying to prevent wrecking old race cars.

bjm

Runs in Group 10 and those things do not matter in that group.

gbvette62

Actually, Ken's been running the car in Group 5 this year, by using treaded tires. When he uses slicks, he has to run in Group 10.

Either way, I agree that the items pointed out don't matter much, especially to Ken. He built the car to race, and races it regularly. It may have more track time, than any other Grand Sport replica out there.

Besides, if your going to point out something that varies from the original Grand Sports, check out his rear flares. I think they're quite a bit wider than anything ever run on one of the "real" Grand Sports!

jimgessner

I am most interested in Tony's success, and agree he has done a good job. Obviously with Steve Earle on board, we west coast people will watch how things develop. Steve's SONOMA HISTORIC is a great event with old fashion quality. Steve's article in this months VINTAGE MOTORSPORT (Sept-Oct #5-page 86) explains the challanges for all the promoters in vintage racing, world wide. Now with Tony's influence, it will interesting to see how this will become another major event.

brucep

Vintage Racing definitely has its risks. I hear from some who raced for real before getting into vintage, that the hobby is getting more dangerous as more people with lower skill levels get into it. Someone died at the Lime Rock Park Vintage Fall Festival this year. It was a one car roll over accident. I was told the drivers head was higher than the height of his roll bar.

6T5RUSH

gbvette62,

As a "fly on the wall" here, I am a layman on the rules of vintage racing. You mentioned here:

"It was announced at the driver's meeting, that the 13/13 rule was in effect for the weekend, and that they would be enforcing it! I can't say that I heard of anybody being penalized, under the rule though."

Just what is the 13/13 rule you speak of. Inquiring minds DO want to know.

Thanks in advance on this.

Regards,

Jim
In God We Trust!

gbvette62

The driver who was killed at Lime Rock, was a very experienced racer. The car he was racing was a 1934 MG PA, which he raced regularly. I haven't heard that the cause of the accident, has been determined. Lee, the driver, was 73 years old, and some people have speculated that he may have suffered a heart attack, or similar medical problem. It could be that something broke, on his 80 year old race car, or it may have been just a racing accident?

He'd been racing for years, and I have seen him race. The roll bar may or may not have been taller than his head, but if it was, it wasn't by much. He normally raced with the VSCCA, in their pre-war class, and many of the cars in his class, don't have roll bars at all!

Realistically, I don't know that you could add a roll bar to a 30's Alfa, a GP Maserati, or a Blower Bentley. Considering what those cars had for frames, I wonder if a roll bar would even be real effective, in one of those cars? Heck, if you look at F1 and Indy cars from the 60's, the roll bar was often lower than the driver's head. This is just amplified by todays modern helmets.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't make every effort, to make vintage racing as safe as possible, because they should. The problem is how do you make them safer, without severely effecting the appearance or value, of some of these cars. People like to see them race, and if the owners have to make drastic changes to the car, they may just chose to leave them home instead.

The article by Steve Earle, that Jim Gessner referred to, talks about how many of the old race cars have become museum pieces, instead of still racing. Event organizers don't want to see even more of the early cars, stop being raced.

The sanctioning bodies need to find a way to make the vintage racers safer, without chasing them away. I don't have the answer, and I'm sure it won't be easy for them to come up with one either.

redvetracr

"rules" in vintage racing are not about what you know or who you know but who knows you.

C2Racer

What does that mean Howard and how does it relate to rules?

Steve

gbvette62

You posted your quesstion, at almost the exact same time that I had posted my responce to brucep. As such, I didn't initially see your question. Sorry.

Basically, the 13/13 rules says that anyone involved in an accident, that causes body damage to their car, or someone else's, is put on probation for 13 months. If a driver on probation, is involved in another accident causing damage to a car, they are supposed to be suspended for 13 months.

A driver can be suspended, without being first put on probation, if they are involved in an altercation that the SVRA determines was especially egregious.

Of course, the SVRA, like the SCCA and most other sanctioning bodies, often tend to pick and chose what rules they want to enforce, and when.

TWINRAY

Sadly had to cancel after over 10 straight years. Shoulder got all f-uped and was immovable for a week. WG puts on a great show. Thanks for the photos.

brucep

From an unofficial source I heard he had a vibration in the steering he had yet to determine the cause of, decided to run anyway, and then something came apart.

Pop Chevy

I think what Howard is saying is that if the officials know you and know you are a good safe driver they MAY let a small incident slide, especially if it was a one car incident. We all make mistakes and running near the limit it can happen in a heartbeat. Sometimes the damage to the wallet can be punishment enough. Rules are different when 2 cars are involved and who was at fault. That's where the in car camera is worth it's weight in gold.

Racing is NOT a game, anytime you strap in a racecar you must realize the risks involved. And acknowledge that you might not walk away. it's a shame when it happens, but it does. If I die in a racecar, I will die doing what I love.

69ttop502

Terrific pictures. Thanks so much, as usual, for sharing.

Bill

jerry gollnick

I've been racing vintage racing for 20 years, most of it with SVRA until they went very lax on preparation and driver standards. I run on west coast and have had some of the hardest, closest racing in my life at Monterey and Coronado .
Come on out and find out what real vintage racing is, not SVRA NASCAR light series. It's real, hard racing with cars prepared the way they were and driver discipline is enforced. You'll bring your car back in one piece and a competitive small block motor costs $10,000 not $50,000.
i'm not sure what list your talking about at SVRA but I've watched klutt and other group six drivers repeatedly push and bang into each other with no consequences. SVRA will have to actually put it's money where it's mouth is on this subject to regain any credibility.

Pop Chevy

There WAS a list on the VRRF , but I just looked and it has been taken down. I feel the list should have remained public, but that's not up to me.. The list is still maintained and shared between sanctions (I think). I will check with Ray S. at my next event. Who do you race with?

sub006

GM made a lot of Grand Sport modifications over a year or two, like the hoods. I'm just mystified that companies going to the trouble of making GS kits can't get simple details that remained the same correct.