Vette Daddy

Anyone here done it? I would like to modernize an early 4360 fuel unit for a new project of mine.
I want to equip the old unit with newer technology, injectors, computer, etc..

Cost?
Parts?

Thanks

jim lockwood

Hmmmmm.....interesting. Define "modernize".

Frankie the Fink

Yes - wmf62 has done it. He runs a hybrid system with the old Rochester doghouse F/I but modern injectors with an ECU...

I'll PM you his email address...

MikeM

See Wm 62's posts of his successful, professional converson. This forum.

Vette Daddy

Sorry, Jim. I thought I did.

I want to make the mechanical unit a computerized unit.

Thanks

Vette Daddy

Thanks, Frankie, Mike M.

ohiovet

Check with Fran Olsen at Fox Engineering, www.foxinjection.com
He has helped me convert a Hilborn 8 stack to EFI using a Megasquirt ECU, the unit is very inexpensive but extremely capable.
Although starting with a Rochester plenum/intake seems to me would be relatively straightforward.
Of course in addition to the ECU the appropriate sensors, fuel system (pump & bypass regulator), vacuum source and plumbing need to be added. That includes, IAT (incoming air) , CLT (WATER TEMP), Wideband O2, TPS (throttle position).
I did my installation from scratch and it was not very difficult.
Bruce B

Vette Daddy

Thanks for the info, Bruce.

Loren Smith

I got a detailed quote from Arizona Speed and Marine to retrofit a stock plenum and intake to EFI with a FAST controller, but never got around to doing it. Might still like to have it done in the future.

Rustman

I'm slowly attempting to do this on a later 7380 (65) unit, but some of the things would be the same for the earlier units, maybe even a little easier.

Nozzles holes need to be enlarged slightly to accommodate the modern injectors and chamfered at the top of the hole. I'm using Magneti Marelli injectors since they are smaller and can more easily fit the 63-65 plenums, but with the earlier style plenums you can probably use any type injector and it should fit ok. Hook it up to any combination of fuel rails or fuel line distribution (kind of like the factory style). Run a return line back to the gas tank to eliminate some of the troubles people have been running into with returnless style fuel systems.

For a throttle body use a cable activated ls1 style. Most have provisions for a TPS and IAC. Other sensors can be hooked up where ever you want.

Last pick you a computer system. I have heard good things about Holley, but there is also FAST, MSD, ACCEL; though they might not have a retro system. Would also need a different distributor is you want the computer to control timing.

ohiovet

One of the things I avoided when we did mine was fuel rails.
They are sort of like a big sign that says "I'M ELECTRONIC".
Also my TPS and most of the wiring was hidden which is not to difficult to do.
The newer GM small injectors are also good to use as they are not to obvious.
As I mentioned I also used a Megasquirt ECU along with their relay board and wire bundle. It made the job much easier.
They also offer their "Tuner Studio " software which is pretty much self tuning.
Not the fancy stuff but very functional.

Vette Daddy

Thanks everyone for the info. Lots to go on now....

Brett!

Vette Daddy

For a throttle body use a cable activated ls1 style. Most have provisions for a TPS and IAC. Other sensors can be hooked up where ever you want.



I wondered about the throttle body portion. I'd like to see pics of a completed unit, if possible? Also, I'd like to avoid fuel rails if possible. My project is a 1957 and I'd like it to look as close to stock as possible.

alexandervdr

I did this on my cobra with a OMEX ecu (similar to Megasquirt), but did not use TPS as a main sensor. I used manifold pressure instead because that is an accurate measure of engine load, by itself the best indicator for how much fuel and at what timing is needed. (that is actually what our carbs&distributors use too as a main input to adjust timing and fuel). TPS is still used for transition adjustment (like fast acceleration and deceleration )
TPS is very popular because it is 'easy', but it's quite rude in it's assumptions. When using wideband O2 as a correction method, that should be fine, except that it happens AFTER the whole injection/detonation/exhaust cycle, so it's always late. Measuring manifold pressure is at the beginning of the cycle. My cobra engine runs great, but mapping the many tables in the software was not exactly what I would call 'easy'
I must have done start-up cycles 100 times or more just to fine-tune the warming up cycle (and letting the engine cool down every time before the next adjustment.) The rest of the mapping was done on a dyno, and I got help from a specialist. A lot of work but highly rewarding.

Frankie the Fink

I don't know much about this topic; but the wmf62 conversion was what he drove on his 10,000 mile road trip in his '62 a couple of years back. ALL over the country in all kinds of altitudes and weather conditions and traffic. By all accounts it performed superbly.

He did fight through a bunch of issues, early on, to get it to this point however.

ohiovet

Fueling by MAP is definitely the way to go in my opinion.
I used TPS for a while and it was not good since my 8 butterfly (2.0625" dia. per tube) Hilborn flowed way to much air and the fuel table never got used above 20%.
On my Hilborn unit we built a manifold under the intake to get a vacuum signal from all 8 intake runners. The signal is hooked directly to the MAP sensor in the ECU.
I would think on a 4360 unit a MAP signal could easily be taken from the plenum or the throttle body. A fuel distribution block could be located under the plenum plumbed to each injector (no fuel rails) and the stock air side of the 4360 could be used as the throttle body.
If I had a extra early Rochester unit I would probably convert it although my 4360 runs great.
Bruce B

DZAUTO

I have "upgraded" the Rochester unit on the SB400 which is in my 56. It is not modernized to a computer controlled electronic system, but is essentially upgraded to the equivalent of the latest Rochester units which was the 7380. Without question, the 7380 units, which were also the most dependable and most trouble free units, are the best of the Rochester FI systems.
Various mods have been done to my early unit which has the finned top plenum and it works great.

Vette Daddy

I like that idea. I'm all-in on modernizing my unit with electronics. This is the path that I'm choosing for my new project. I don't want a mechanical unit for my project.

jerry gollnick

I'm not a troglodyte, but i race a Rochester unit and it's very stable A/F ratio and very good predictable idle will be difficult to beat. If your going to drive in really cold weather( below freezing) or put air conditioning in your car and drive in parades in july then I could see some advantage. Not many of us do that with our cars. Interesting science fair project though.
I have seen a unit on a 62 and a 65 that used a modern air meter( mass flow) to replace the Rochester air meter and then turbocharged the unit. very spiffy

Vette Daddy

Bill, this may be EXACTLY what I want to do with my 4360 unit.