Thinking of Conical Valve Springs, But...
11-08-2014, 02:18 PM
#41
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
We'll get to the bottom of this yet.
11-08-2014, 03:31 PM
#42
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Washington Michigan
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11-08-2014, 03:44 PM
#43
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Even so, the Crane #151 cam card calls for 90# at 1.625" installed height, and 265# at 1.203".
11-08-2014, 03:52 PM
#44
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Washington Michigan
Posts: 38,899
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11-08-2014, 05:55 PM
#47
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Mallory Hyfire IV CD ignition box triggered off Accel points
Mallory high voltage chrome coil
Mallory spiral-wound coil wire
Mallory solid copper plug wires, ends soldered to wires
Champion plugs
37 degrees total ignition advance
Distributor and vacuum advance set up by Lars.
Mallory high voltage chrome coil
Mallory spiral-wound coil wire
Mallory solid copper plug wires, ends soldered to wires
Champion plugs
37 degrees total ignition advance
Distributor and vacuum advance set up by Lars.
Last edited by toddalin; 11-08-2014 at 06:13 PM.
11-11-2014, 01:45 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Steve checked the springs yesterday. He said the seat pressures were on the order of 76 - 82# (90# spec), open was a bit over 240# (260# spec).
So this may not a problem. But while out, the springs will be replaced with new GM Z-28 springs (~$50/set). Steve said the Z-28 springs spec the same seat pressure (90#), but were a bit lighter (~5#) open as the cam card.
I told him to put them in, but shim up the seat/open pressure by ~5#. These can and will reuse all of the existing other pieces, and if this is not the problem, I haven't laid a ton of money into it.
So this may not a problem. But while out, the springs will be replaced with new GM Z-28 springs (~$50/set). Steve said the Z-28 springs spec the same seat pressure (90#), but were a bit lighter (~5#) open as the cam card.
I told him to put them in, but shim up the seat/open pressure by ~5#. These can and will reuse all of the existing other pieces, and if this is not the problem, I haven't laid a ton of money into it.
11-11-2014, 05:00 PM
#49
Safety Car
Steve checked the springs yesterday. He said the seat pressures were on the order of 76 - 82# (90# spec), open was a bit over 240# (260# spec).
So this may not a problem. But while out, the springs will be replaced with new GM Z-28 springs (~$50/set). Steve said the Z-28 springs spec the same seat pressure (90#), but were a bit lighter (~5#) open as the cam card.
I told him to put them in, but shim up the seat/open pressure by ~5#. These can and will reuse all of the existing other pieces, and if this is not the problem, I haven't laid a ton of money into it.
So this may not a problem. But while out, the springs will be replaced with new GM Z-28 springs (~$50/set). Steve said the Z-28 springs spec the same seat pressure (90#), but were a bit lighter (~5#) open as the cam card.
I told him to put them in, but shim up the seat/open pressure by ~5#. These can and will reuse all of the existing other pieces, and if this is not the problem, I haven't laid a ton of money into it.
"Z28" springs (GM 3927142)
110 # @ 1.700"
1.273" OD
271 # @ 1.25"
358 #/" rate
coil bind @ 1.16"
.450" max valve lift (with generous 0.09" margin to bind) *
* my edit
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 11-11-2014 at 05:12 PM.
11-11-2014, 05:05 PM
#50
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Not GM, Federal Mogul/SBI (160-1144HP). His catalog pressure numbers conflict with the on-line catalog, and he called them to check it out and measured one in the shop at 90#@1.7" and ~255# open.
On-line catalog says 118#@1.700 closed, and 318#@1.210 open. This equates to a spring rate of 408#/in. The spring rate on the cam card is 415#/in, so if the open pressure is set to that of the cam card, the closed pressure would be 91.5# (as opposed to 90# on the cam card).
Steve is very diligent and said he would check each one for open and seat pressure prior to installation and he will shoot for the cam card specs. If he can't get them there, he won't install them and we'll go from there.
Last edited by toddalin; 11-11-2014 at 08:05 PM.
11-13-2014, 08:41 PM
#51
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
The 160-1144HP springs came in and Steve tested them ALL. Without any shims at all, at an installed height of 1.71", seat pressures were all within 1# @ 91-92#. Open pressure was 260# so these are almost right on the money for the cam card and what his specs said.
I was shooting for 265# open so told him to see how much change the thinnest shim would produce and if it stayed in the "90s" on the seats, use it. (Z28s uses 110# on the seat so keeping in the 90s should be fine.) So long as the open pressures do not exceed 280#, the pressed in studs should be fine.
I was shooting for 265# open so told him to see how much change the thinnest shim would produce and if it stayed in the "90s" on the seats, use it. (Z28s uses 110# on the seat so keeping in the 90s should be fine.) So long as the open pressures do not exceed 280#, the pressed in studs should be fine.
11-13-2014, 08:55 PM
#52
Team Owner
I am still following!
The 160-1144HP springs came in and Steve tested them ALL. Without any shims at all, at an installed height of 1.71", seat pressures were all within 1# @ 91-92#. Open pressure was 260# so these are almost right on the money for the cam card and what his specs said.
I was shooting for 265# open so told him to see how much change the thinnest shim would produce and if it stayed in the "90s" on the seats, use it. (Z28s uses 110# on the seat so keeping in the 90s should be fine.) So long as the open pressures do not exceed 280#, the pressed in studs should be fine.
I was shooting for 265# open so told him to see how much change the thinnest shim would produce and if it stayed in the "90s" on the seats, use it. (Z28s uses 110# on the seat so keeping in the 90s should be fine.) So long as the open pressures do not exceed 280#, the pressed in studs should be fine.
11-13-2014, 10:36 PM
#53
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Me too. The next time that someone in the area on the Forum arranges for a dyno day, I'll find out. Typically happens every couple years. 
11-14-2014, 11:02 AM
#54
Safety Car
I've never adjusted hydraulics for high perf, but was thinking you might want to zero lash them without the additional preload on the plungers. I'm not certain, but that seems to hold-off lifter pump-up for some extra revs.
11-14-2014, 01:38 PM
#55
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Thanks,
Steve know the goal (be all it can be for what it is) and has been building engines long enough to know what will work..., and what he'll guarantee.
Steve know the goal (be all it can be for what it is) and has been building engines long enough to know what will work..., and what he'll guarantee.
11-14-2014, 04:24 PM
#56
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Car's done. Doesn't take Steve long.
I asked if there was a notable difference and his response was "Runs good and I'm not about to hammer on your car."
Will probably take a dyno to tell if there is a difference. Something to look forward to. I'll pick it up tomorrow or Monday.
I asked if there was a notable difference and his response was "Runs good and I'm not about to hammer on your car."
Will probably take a dyno to tell if there is a difference. Something to look forward to. I'll pick it up tomorrow or Monday.
11-14-2014, 04:28 PM
#57
Team Owner
I will lay a wager that it will be tomorrow!
Car's done. Doesn't take Steve long.
I asked if there was a notable difference and his response was "Runs good and I'm not about to hammer on your car."
Will probably take a dyno to tell if there is a difference. Something to look forward to. I'll pick it up tomorrow or Monday.
I asked if there was a notable difference and his response was "Runs good and I'm not about to hammer on your car."
Will probably take a dyno to tell if there is a difference. Something to look forward to. I'll pick it up tomorrow or Monday.
11-17-2014, 05:25 PM
#58
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Just got back from picking up the '64. The new 160-1144HP springs have really made a nice, noticeable improvement. He installed them without shims at 92# on the seats and 260# open. The idle is noticeably smoother, (and a smooth idle is attained from cold quicker) and when pulling away from a stop light, there is less tendency to buck as the gas is feathered in. The thing always pulled great on the cam, and maybe even better now. There was also an occasional "hic" at idle that may be gone.
Steve said it was notably better than when he took it over for alignment, and really loves the way it runs. And Steve has driven a lot of Vettes.
Steve said it was notably better than when he took it over for alignment, and really loves the way it runs. And Steve has driven a lot of Vettes.
11-18-2014, 09:31 AM
#59
Safety Car
Just got back from picking up the '64. The new 160-1144HP springs have really made a nice, noticeable improvement. He installed them without shims at 92# on the seats and 260# open. The idle is noticeably smoother, (and a smooth idle is attained from cold quicker) and when pulling away from a stop light, there is less tendency to buck as the gas is feathered in. The thing always pulled great on the cam, and maybe even better now. There was also an occasional "hic" at idle that may be gone.
Steve said it was notably better than when he took it over for alignment, and really loves the way it runs. And Steve has driven a lot of Vettes.
Steve said it was notably better than when he took it over for alignment, and really loves the way it runs. And Steve has driven a lot of Vettes.
11-18-2014, 01:52 PM
#60
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I've had the car for 29 years. The engine was rebuilt ~25 years ago, has been dynoed several times over these years, and by now I think that I know its noises, vibrations, and feel. And, it would not surprise me at all if the engine now pulls more vacuum at idle.
For all we know, something may have been out of adjustment (e.g., lifter lash) and it was corrected in the R&R. Or, maybe 25 years of heat cycling softened the springs, as they were over 10# light on the seats and over 20# light when open.
Steve also said it is the most cold blooded car he's driven (takes forever to warm up). He said it is even more cold blooded than his L88.
For all we know, something may have been out of adjustment (e.g., lifter lash) and it was corrected in the R&R. Or, maybe 25 years of heat cycling softened the springs, as they were over 10# light on the seats and over 20# light when open.
Steve also said it is the most cold
blooded car he's driven (takes forever to warm up). He said it is even more cold blooded than his L88.
Last edited by toddalin; 11-18-2014 at 01:59 PM.