Todd H.

I'm looking for information on Bill Thomas (designer/builder of the Cheetah) from his years spent at CS Mead Chevrolet in Pasadena. I've read that Bill modified several FI Corvettes during this time to prepare them for racing. My '57 FI came from CS Mead during Bill's time there, and someone modified it, but since Bill is no longer with us it's probably going to be difficult to establish that it was necessarily him. Thanks for any help.

TCracingCA

My casual records, literature collecting or hobby or whatever you call it, is primarily C2 and later. I wasn't around in the 1950's, so I don't try to catalog dealerships or cars or racing from prior to me being around, but collaterally do have a bunch of stuff for C1's and that era.

Bill Thomas near the end would not talk about his car days. His son has taken up the torch and you should go on his website (BTM) and contact him directly, because he is assembling his Dad's history and has a bunch of pictures up. I think his first offering were Hot Rod Corvairs in the very earliest days of opening his shop. I don't have per se anything on his working at the dealership, but did hear that from somewhere!

He was a master with fuel injection units and had to have learned that working at the dealership. That is one thing that I have just started to take an interest in, was who were the mechanics and such that backed up the known performance dealerships!

Todd H.

Thanks, TCracing.

I'm extremely fortunate to know my car's original (or maybe second) owner who bought it at Harry Mann with a few hundred miles on it in June or July, 1957, but he knows that the car came from CS Mead, and that someone had installed air ducts to the front brakes, and the car has patches in the rocker area on each side where air would have been ducted to the back brakes. Additionally, the FI unit had been changed to a 4800, and the outside rear view mirror had been moved to a more race-friendly spot by the dummy vent on top of the fender. And the car had been spun, damaging the right rear fender. The car was built in late March, and would have been at CS Mead in April and/or May, 1957. Mick Swezey's car (ex-Austin/Bondurant), which is an FI heavy-duty brake car, was at CS Mead in late June. I'm thinking Bill experimented with mine until they were able to order the factory package.

The car is unrestored, it has it's original (!) engine, and it is not for sale.

I'll see if I can find Bill's son. That's Bill III, right?

sub006

AFAIK Bill Thomas was a hot rodder and tuner in the Pasadena area from the late '40s forward. He switched from Ford to Chevy in the '50s, no doubt inspired like many by the 1955 265 CI SBC.

He relocated to Orange County in the '50s and his Chevy focus caused him to work on Corvair performance improvements alongside his V8 and general bowtie performance activities.

He pioneered four carb Corvair intake manifolds, selling his modified stock units to owners with credit if they would send him their stock manifolds. He needed a supply of stockers to make into his performance version, and not many Corvairs were in the junkyards yet.

AIR Chevrolet paid him the compliment of introducing production four carb engines as a Corvair option a few years later.

I used his services in the '60s, the shop did excellent Corvette work and dyno tuning at reasonable prices.

With Corvair, Corvette, FI, 409s, Bad Bascomb and too few Cheetahs, he was the almost-Carroll Shelby of Chevrolet. I hope his son (or grandson!) can correct any mistakes in my recollections. May his research lead to a great book on a brilliant practical automotive engineer and a true performance pioneer.

sub006

I tried to send you some info on a Harry Mann Chevrolet FI expert but your mailbox won't take any messages. Please clear some room?

desertpilgrim

A now-deceased friend (El Mirage, Bonneville, etc.) who was born and raised in Hollywood indicated at one time that in the late '50s/early '60s the place to go for the "sneak preview" of the new Corvette was Bill's place in Anaheim. Mackenzie et al would make sure that the cars made available to the SoCal magazines arrived in plenty of time for a Bill Thomas "tweaking" before the drives.

TCracingCA

They met at Irwindale Speedway years ago, my brother having Crew Chief'd on three NASCAR Super Truck Teams over the years. I don't know which generation of Bill Thomas we are on, but it is the one with the website with the super cool photos. If you aren't successful, I can see if my brother can get the meet for you, but his son is super cool and I think the one that got the continuation line of Cheetah's going also! I think from my notes somewhere, an enthusiast first wanting to build one approached Bill Thomas Jr. and then it all eventually got started. I do know Bill Thomas Sr. worked for Don Steves for a little while and continued tuning all of their Dealership sponsored cars-- like my bastard 63/64 Racer! The Don Steves sponsored Nascar, and the Don Steves/Dave McDonald cars! And let's not forget the drag cars. Actually the Bill Thomas 427 installed Camaro's would take a Yenko or a DANA, and others apart, a Baldwin Motion would have been one of the few that would have been a real race!

TCracingCA

I will try to get something clear and give you my personal work email, because the others fill up and I can't keep them clear. I am so far behind on getting back to people, or following thru on things that I was working on, where I was going to help a fellow enthusiast. You seem to have your notes and stuff in good order and pull things far faster than my unorganized process of doing so! My compliments. Maybe when I retire or something, I can be more sharing and social. For now, you all get the current version of me!!!

Dr L-88

Interesting information here..............................

http://www.billthomascheetah.com/

sub006

Nope, no notes or organization, just a lifetime of So Cal 'Vette-related memories stored deep in my head that are only triggered by seeing someone's muse in print on CF!

(Waiting to see if my internal Bill Thomas story is correct)

Todd H.

It's fun knowing that my car came into direct contact with Carrol Shelby and Bill Thomas. TCracing, I can't find any website that appears to be operated by Bill III. Just the Bob Auxier one, and that's clearly not associated with Bill. If you would please ask your brother for contact info on him that would be great, or he can reach me here or at 218-766-9527. Thanks a lot. Todd

TCracingCA

And he said that the last time he saw him at the track, Jr. wasn;t wanting to talk about anything related to his Father, he said something about someone screwing him. And my brother does not have a current working phone number for the guy. It has been at least a year or more since he has ran into him.

I just looked at that site (BTM) which Bill Thomas III Jr was involved with and was the force thay led to the pictures shared from his families album and the continuation cars, and you can tell that his legacy was stolen out from under him by this claimed friend of the family. Therefore I am not going to push it! Sounds like, not a good time to approach a guy after being screw by manuevering done probably by a bunch of Lawyers. This guy even slapped his Companies (BTM)ownership on the family pictures, so you can tell this guy is a thief!

I personally was myself going to try to get some questions I had answered, but I am going to hold on that idea! Somewhere and will not be easy to find, I have interview articles and stuff on his overall career where he talked about his dealership employment. If I come across them, I will post up, but I am not into search missions currently. So no promise, because I am way behind on filling promises. If it is something simple and I know where it is in my house or garage then I can grab stuff like the Gordon Wilson thing or the Phillipine collector guy thing that I have out but just ran out of time before bed to scan.

DZAUTO

Todd,
Exactly what kind of information are you seeking about Bill Thomas?
Are you just wanting info during the time he was at CS Mead, or are you wanting any and all info about his efforts during the time he spent pursuing his automotive and modification endeavors?

Todd H.

Tom,

I'm just trying to learn something to add to my theory that he worked on my car at CS Mead. As it is, I'm weak on evidence. I know that these mods were on the car when Dalton bought it in July of 1957, about three months after it was built. In the 2+ years that I've owned this car I've been a bit stumped about who would take a brand new FI Corvette and make these kinds of changes. Admittedly it might have been someone else, but these were racing mods, not pin stripes, and the brake work at least was pretty technical. The FI change to a 4800 from the 4520 my car probably had could have been some sort of warranty issue, but since I now know that totally re-doing FI units was one of Bill's things, maybe mine was one of the first that didn't turn out. Any idea about when he did yours, Tom?

Anyway, when I read about Bill and that he was at CS Mead and what he did there, it made me wonder about the work on my car. A skeptic could justifiably point out that I don't have a lot to go on, and I'm just trying to find out if I'm just another over-imaginative Corvette owner, or if there's something here. I know Bill did incredible things with Corvairs and the Cheetah, but at this point I'm just searching for info about 1957 that I might not find.

Dalton is still mystified about why his original engine never blew. He road raced, drag raced, and gymkhanaed this car extensively until 1964... never an issue with the engine. Suppose Bill opened it up? I'm just too imaginative..

DZAUTO

Back in the late 50s-early 60s, Hayden Proffit (known as Mr. 409) worked with and/or was closely associated with Bill Thomas and involved with FI tuning and modifications.
At a Super Chevy event in the late 80s in Dallas, Hayden was in attendance and I had an opportunity to visit with him regarding the FI unit on the 56. For various reasons, I had understood that my unit was one which had been modified by Thomas for racing (cut in half and hogged out). During my visit with Hayden, he offered to examine the FI unit. Upon his examination of the unit, he stated positively that it was one which he and Thomas modified "back in the day". I took a photo of Hayden next to the 56, had an enlargement made, sent it to him and asked him to write on the back about what he and Thomas did to the units. Hayden said this was done back in the 1961 time frame.
Below is a picture I took that day of Hayden next to the 56.



Somewhere I have a copy (I cannot locate it-------yet) of a Bill Thomas drawing showing one of the two methods he used to cut early plenums in half, hog them out and weld them back together.
Below is a picture of the method that was used for cutting my plenum in half. The ram tubes were completely removed and the lower portion of the runners were greatly enlarged (about the size of the runners of 63-65 plenums). Thomas was also one of the pioneers that developed dual air meter units. So there is little doubt that he was one, if not THE, foremost leaders in tuning and modifying FI units for added performance. Although, arguably, the modifications were directed more toward top end performance rather than street driveability. The unit on the SB400 in the 56 is not the most docile around town, but on the Interstate, it comes into its own!

W Guy

Thomas also did the 409 engine in Hayden's '62 that won the Nationals. That doesn't help the OP's questions but Hayden just reached his 86th as I recall and he's available and willing for a discussion of those days.

Verne

TCracingCA

You have to take your unit apart! this would be the sure way of knowing! An FI unit done by him, would be obvious! But if it was just a matter of prepping a car just for delivery off of the showroom floor, I would bet he did that tune, if he was working that day. I would say at least two mechanics per dealership became really good with this stuff!

Yes Hayden Proffitt sponsored out of Cone Chevrolet which was just south east of Don Steves and slightly north west of where Bill Thomas set up his facility. The involvement with these successful operations is what led to his ability to do a car of his own creation! So far it looks like he worked with the two dealerships related to their race teams and three other dealerships with a project or two (like with Selman Chevrolet). I heard with like Vern Trider, they would take the hotter used car trade ins over to his shop for sorting prior to putting them on the lot (on occasion!).

So far it looks like he

TCracingCA

A super cool share! And he signed your dash?

Todd H.

I'm sure my 4800 has not been cut in half, which I believe is what he usually did. I guess he also cut the tops off of the dog house on some units, but mine doesn't show that either.
The car does have lots of race mods, though. Maybe someday I'll learn how to post pictures.