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My '65 did have a 4 wheel alignment a year and a half ago. She does track straight and true...no tire wear.
Recently, had to replace my steering coupler (thanks to Jim Shea's paper on this) I took the time to make sure on installing it I:
1. Made certain the front wheels were pointing straight ahead.
2. Pitman arm was pointing straight ahead.
3. Steering shaft was centered (flat portion of shaft faced up and aligned to the 12 o'clock mark on the steering box spline)...there was no mark at the top of the steering shaft).
4. Coupler was mounted so that the bolt for the lower portion of the coupler was vertical and the upper portion of the coupler was horizontal.
5. Torqued those 2 bolts 30 ft. lbs. Torqued the felt nuts (which were facing the steering box and mounted at 3 and 9 o'clock) 20 ft. lbs.
So, installing the steering wheel I'm close to centering but she's off, cocked to the left (that is, like I'm gradually making a left, sweeping turn) enough to bug me. I torqued down the steering hub big nut 40 ft. lbs.
According to Jim Shea's paper, "If the steering wheel needs to be adjusted clockwise to get it on center - the left tie rod will need to be shortened and the right lengthened by equal amounts."
I understand the simple process of loosening the clamps for the driver's and passenger's tie rods and, before doing this, clearly marking where the tube is clamped to the threads of the tie rods. Being very focused, I should be able to rotate the tie rods enough to bring the steering wheel on center. As long as I stay focused on how much I rotate one side and do the same to the other, this should not affect my alignment.
Now, the 64 dollar question is:
My '5 is a factory manual steering car. Years ago I moved the tie rods from the rear hole to the front hole to take advantage of a quicker steering/feel. Maybe it's because I was born too early , but I'm thinking that moving those tie rods back to the rear most hole just might lessen my effort in driving her.
Is what I am thinking above, true?
If so, having said that, if I did this change FIRST, as long as I:
1. Mark the tube to the threads on each tie rod B/4 loosening
2. Then, remove the tie rod from the front hole.
3. Loosen each set of clamps, one side at a time and count the rotations on the tube so that I can then install the end of the tie rod in the rear hole...rotating the tie rod on the other side the same number of rotations.
If I'm correct so far in my "order of battle" here, my steering wheel is still off center and it is at this point I would follow Jim Shea's quoted process above to center it.
Do I now need to take the car to a professional to have it aligned?
I've centered my wheel as you described after a steering box R&R so I'm pretty certain that will work fine for you.
As to the 64k question. Did you have an alignment done when to moved them in? If so, have it aligned. If not, you've answered your own question.
Gary
Last edited by Gary's '66; 11-14-2014 at 10:37 PM.
Yes, I did have it aligned when I moved the tie rods to the front holes. With all the good information here, and perhaps, just reading enough to get myself in trouble, I thought this would be something I could accomplish in my garage.
Like nassau66427 said, it's really not about the $, it's reasonable enough. Getting it professionally aligned would certainly take the concern of scrubbing some good tires off the table.
So, like you guys stated, I've kinda' answered my own question...spend the money to get peace of mind AND end up with a more user friendly Vette. I honestly think I can do this but I don't have the right measuring tools to be certain I haven't disturbed my alignment.
Yes, I did have it aligned when I moved the tie rods to the front holes. With all the good information here, and perhaps, just reading enough to get myself in trouble, I thought this would be something I could accomplish in my garage.
Like nassau66427 said, it's really not about the $, it's reasonable enough. Getting it professionally aligned would certainly take the concern of scrubbing some good tires off the table.
So, like you guys stated, I've kinda' answered my own question...spend the money to get peace of mind AND end up with a more user friendly Vette. I honestly think I can do this but I don't have the right measuring tools to be certain I haven't disturbed my alignment.
Regards,
Jim
In God We Trust!
I would adjust the toe in myself with a tape measurer.
I would adjust the toe in myself with a tape measurer.
Be certain all the pieces are aligned correct before you set the toe. The rag joint when correctly mounted has the rubber portion riveted to the coupler used at the upper location, (steering wheel shaft).
The lower coupler has the split aligned to the 12 o'clock mark on the steering box worm gear.
It seems to me that if it feels right when you drive it, the only other concern is premature tire wear. If you drive it enough to wear out a set of tires before they get 8-10 years old, have it aligned. Otherwise, if it feels right, that would be good enough for me. Just keep an eye out for uneven tire wear.
Professionally aligned is a oxymoron IMO when it comes to these cars. Finding a competent alignment shop will be your biggest challenge and at best you will only fine someone to do the front end.
I tend to lean towards doing my own alignments in the garage and for piece of mind I might put it on a rack for a double check of the front end. Most of the young guys running alignment racks can't seem to get their brain around the back end of these cars.
Since I drive her more than casually, I've decided to do the grunt work of moving the tie rod ends to the rear holes AND centering the steering wheel as best I can, then having a local alignment shop, a 1 man band who does a lot of old cars and Vettes, double check where she's at so I'm not scrubbing the rubber.
I DO appreciate the e-mails on doing it myself...thank you Phil for those charts you provided me that, based on real world experience AND how you drive the car, you can set your car up accordingly.
Bill, thank you for your offer of the use of your trammel bar. I have got to read up on it in order to use it.
I do it on a regular basis.
I trust my measurements more than some kid in an alignment shop.
If the wheels were aligned properly before you replaced the rag joint, then turn both tie rods the exact same amount (lenghten one side, shorten the other) to straighten the wheels, and the toe won't change. Simple as that.
I just went through this because my rag joint got sloppy. I removed it and tightened (smashed) the rivets to take out the slop. Afterwards, the wheels were slightly off center. Straightened them easy.
I also do my own alignment using plumb bobs, marks on the floor, long straight broom handles, a level, and a measuring tape. Of course, your floor must be dead level where you do the setting and roll car a few feet back and forward after each adjustment before rechecking. Car always runs straight and true, never pulls, wheels dead straight and best of all no tire squeal when taking turns and taking exit ramps much faster than I should . Finally, tire wear is perfectly straight!
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 11-15-2014 at 11:25 AM.
To move the rods from the manual to power holes (or vice versa) just count the number of turns (or half-turns) the first side takes, then use that number of turns on the other side. Alignment will remain unchanged.
(As explained to me by a Bill Thomas Race Cars mechanic many years ago)
To move the rods from the manual to power holes (or vice versa) just count the number of turns (or half-turns) the first side takes, then use that number of turns on the other side. Alignment will remain unchanged.
(As explained to me by a Bill Thomas Race Cars mechanic many years ago)
I would leave the weight on the front wheels and knock the tie rods loose. Make sure they drop straight up and down in the taper in the steering arm. Both sides.
Simply move the tie rod either front or back and adjust the tie rod sleeve so the taper drops straight in the steering arm hole without moving the respective front wheel. Both sides. Your toe in should still be okay if it was before you started. Your steering wheel angle (clear vision) may then need to be touched up by turning each tie rod equal amounts in opposite directions to straighten that up.
I choose not to argue with Bill Thomas but I think manufacturing tolerances between steering arms might make turning both tie rod ends the same amount a little inaccurate.
Got sidetracked on yard work today. The plan is to warm up the garage in the a.m. Been reviewing all comments from this topic I started and was mentally picturing the approach to removing and then installing those tie rod ends. Good point MikeM on going straight into the steeering arm hole with those ends by carefully counting the revolutions to the tie rod sleeve so that I'm going straight into the hole, both sides. Then do the steering wheel centering last, again adjusting those tie rod sleeves.
Thank you all again for the directions here. Guidance from you folks with experience is REALLY appreciated!
This pickle fork made it real easy to pop those tie rod ends out.
Since I wanted to move those tie rods to the rear hole for easy manual steering, I did that first. Found by counting the revolutions of the first tie rod (as the rear steering knuckle holes are slightly in, not directly behind the front holes, towards the center of the car), I made certain the tie rod would just slide straight up into the hole. To do this, I counted exactly 7 revolutions into the tube. Did the same for the passenger side. Torqued both nuts 30 ft. lbs. Installed new cotter pins.
Then I addressed the off center steering wheel. When I finished the tie rod change I noted there were exactly 5 exposed threads on the tie rod end, both driver and passenger. I needed to move the steering wheel clockwise to bring to center. Decided it might not take much rotation of the driver's tube to shorten the tie rod, so just did one rotation. Moved over to the passenger tie rod sleeve and lengthened it by one rotation. A check of the threads shows the driver's exposed threads were now at 4 and the passenger's exposed threads were now at 6. Voila!!!
Here's pics of the tie rods.
Drivers side showing 4 threads
Passenger's side after 1 rotation, displaying 6 threads.
Lowered the car and checked my steering wheel. Hot damn!! Right on the money.
Put her back in the air, tightened up the 2 sets of clamps on the tubes and figured I'd lube all the grease fittings while I'm there.
Took her for a short spin to be certain she tracked straight with the steering wheel centered. Oh Yeah!! Life is good!!
Havin' a beer while I'm keying here!
Again, thank you one and all!!
Regards,
Jim
In God We Trust!
ps Driving her with those tie rod ends in the rear holes, DID make a difference in ease of turning right and left.
11-14-2014, 10:03 PM
1965-DO i need to have it professionally aligned?
, but I'm thinking that moving those tie rods back to the rear most hole just might lessen my effort in driving her.
