jusplainwacky

Hey John....I didn't think so, but thanks for confirming.

The water pump I have is 3736493 GM 23 - According to Noland Adams book, it's correct 58-62 water pump.

As I mentioned above, what perplexes me is this one guy had the same generator part number and the generator pulley with no space between the fan and pulley and yet claimed he had the same distance from the water pump to the edge of the pulley...which I am baffled by, because with that setup, I wasn't even close...perhaps over an inch too far back.
At any rate...I got mine in, and it's perfectly aligned. Just kind of bugs me that I'm not sure what the answer should be. Perhaps a different water pump pulley and harmonic balancer. I actually got the harmonic balance from Corvette Stop...where Noland Adams worked at so I'm assuming it was right...but maybe they are different for a 327 VS a 283 and that moved the balance out?? Who knows.

narlee

Not sure if it helps but I don't remember that much space between the bracket and the generator. Don't know if it makes a difference but mine is a '61.

jusplainwacky

I got this picture from Jerry Kohn at CC. He has a 58. Not sure if this is his or not.

Looks like a short adjusting bracket (same as the one I took off the car). Also notice the "no space" between the fan and pulley.

jusplainwacky

Just when I thought I had it all figured out, I'm back to square one. Argh...

I put my IPhone in the engine compartment and hit the video button and closed the hood. I could see the hood support hitting the generator housing.

Back in 2010 Bill Mashinter stated this...
I thought maybe the NCRS guide may have been wrong because there is no way I could mount the U-Shape bracket to the generator and have things lined up...but now I think I was wrong based on the part numbers in the assembly manual, dealers and advice on here.

So...I took everything off, mounted the U-shape bracket to the exhaust, left off the backing plate and of course the pulley wasn't in line with the water pump pulley.

Knowing I had another one, I put that on, and removed the generator pulley with the space between the fan and the pulley and put the one on that has no space and....poof...they lined up! These are parts I had on the car, but I thought they were wrong. This is what I get for trying to make it right! LOL

Now my harmonic balance (HB) is off....I found another (one that I also took off the car) which is riveted. I think it will fit and everything will be lined up, but before I put it on, I wanted to check with all of you to see if you know anything about riveted pulleys on the HB. It's 7/8" shorter.

jusplainwacky

I forgot to mention that the harmonic balancer are 6" in diameter and the pulleys are 6 3/4".

jim lockwood

I don't recognize that black balancer. It doesn't look like any SBC balancer I've seen and it's definitely not the right one for your car.

The pulley on your red balancer looks to be for later C1s and it isn't the one you want to use with the stepped water pump pulley you have.

To align with the stepped WP pulley, you need a deep groove crank pulley which sits essentially flush with the face of the balancer. In particular, you want the pulley used on '57 and early '58 fuelies (and maybe all early '58s..... I'm not sure).



Jim

Edit: Well, I might be wrong. For all the pictures you've posted, none clearly show what water pump pulley your car has. I just noticed the stepped pulley visible in a recently posted picture isn't on your car.

Another CFer just went through an exercise getting his fan belt to not rub on the heater hose. The solution for him was to get a compleat set of correct pulleys. One of the postings I made in that thread shows pictures of the exact pulleys he needed to buy. You might search for that thread and compare your pulleys.

And I'm still suspicious of your generator U-bracket. It should NOT be a sloppy fit between the generator end plates.

jusplainwacky

Hey Jim....Thanks for the info.

I called Paragon this morning and they said that the riveted harmonic balance pulley was used on 57 and in particular fuelie's and could have been used on an early 58. This seems in agreement with your views, but you say you don't recognize the pulley.

The pictures you are looking at do not reflect what I currently have on the car. I had to take all the pulleys off, because I removed the backing plate on the generator and this moved it down and back...and out of the way of the hood support.

As far as the U-shape bracket....Noland Adams book (Page 247) has a diagram with dimensions...and mine has the same dimensions.

Here are some pictures of my current setup...notice how much closer the water pump pulley is to the engine.

jusplainwacky

Well...this setup isn't going to work either. If I remove the backing plate and mount the U-Shape bracket right to the exhaust manifold, then the fan belt will hit the lower radiator hose.
I think the only way I'm going to figure out what is what, is if I can find someone that has an early 58 with the hood support on the passenger side and tell me what setup they have.
Rich has been trying like crazy to help me, but it's pretty hard to do with having it all in front of you.

rich5962

Dennis, FYI.....more info from my research from the NCRS site archives. I didn't read it all but it may have some "enlightening", or maybe "more confusing" information.

Rich

1958-60 Re: 1959 with 1958 hood
Quote Originally Posted by Anthony xxxxxxxxxxxx View Post
Chris,

Correct me if I am wrong but I did not hear any one talk about the hood prop location. On the 58's, the hod prop was mounted on the passenger’s side of the car and it switched to the driver’s side in 1959. If this is true it would have been an item, I believe, that would not have been acceptable for deviation. Maybe John could add something here?


Anthony, the hood prop changed to drivers side early 58 due to relocation of generator and pulley arrangement which was causing the fan belt to hit the lower radiator hose. These later hoods would be compatible with the 59 set up etc.
Dan

==========

Hi,
On the 1958 with the hood support on the "rider" side, the bracket mounts directly to the exhaust manifold without the mounting plate. Is this correct? Thanks for your input. Chuck

Hi, I assume you have a very 'early' 58? The entire generator mounting is totally different from the 'driver' hood support side 58 cars. I wrote an article for the Restorer about early 58's about 1990, see if you can locate it. The very early RH hood support 58's had the following differences from the later 58's:
Generator mounted by 'U' clamp directly to exhaust manifold with a heat shield between them.
Gen pulley was set forward 1/4" with gen fan. Rh engine mount was 'dented in' to allow clearance for fan belt.
Water pump and engine pulleys were closer to engine to align with gen pulley.
A hose clamp was used to pull the radiator hose reward away from the fan belt to prevent the belt from cutting into the hose! It was clamped to the fuel line exiting the fuel pump.
Late 58's were like 59 gen set-up.

Dan, I am also interested in the information as I have '58 with Dec 2nd b-date. Any chance that you have a picture of the heat shield and can you narrow down the timing for the article you posted in the Corvette Restorer?

Cheers,

Don

Don, for the heat shield you can 'modify' a 57 shield for your RH side mounting. Maybe a vendor has them now, not sure? Which side is your hood support on? The 'U' clamp for the early RH hood support is the early one without rubber grommets due to heat from manifold etc. The article was in Fall 1991, Vol 18, #2. Also the engine mount was only 'peened' in on very early 58's. Mine was Vin 297, made Oct of 57. Have also worked on Sn 003, it really had some weird stuff on it! You might enjoy Spring of 86 and Spring of 87 Restorers. Engine compt. and chassis detailing for 58-60 cars. Once the hood support moved to LH side the later spacer plate, pulleys etc. could be fitted, eliminating the problem with cutting the bottom radiator hose by moving the gen forward.
Dan

Dan, I have a very late '58 with a drivers side hood support. Was the plate added to space the generator up when the hood suport was moved to the left? Also was the heat shield removed then? I recently received a deduct because I didn't have a heat shield in place. The TM&JG is exactly clear on the subject. It depends on how you read it. Thanks Ted

Hi Ted, looked at all my 'untouched' 58/59 engine photos taken many years ago of 'late' generator mounting, ie with the spacer plate, LH hood support mount, forward spaced crank and water pump pulleys etc. also looked at the AIM and cannot see any heat shields with this set-up! My early vn 297 had a heat shield due to being mounted directly to the exhaust manifold, after the spacer etc. was added the heat shield wasn't needed to protect the tach drive. Try to find a 'untouched' late 58 and see what the setup is.
Dan

rich5962

I found Dan's great article in the Fall 1991 Restorer. It'll be "enlightening"....and it will cost you $.

You may have your work cut out for you......Rich

DZVette

I pulled Rich's jpgs of the Restorer pages from Dan's article into a PDF file. Attached for those who want to add it to their reference collection.
Dave Z

rich5962

Dave, Thanks much!

rich5962

Dennis, Here's a zoom'd -n & cropped picture of those brackets I found in in that picture from the parts stash......Rich

jim lockwood

You are mis-interpreting what Paragon told you or else they gave you bad information.

Riveted balancer pulleys were used in '57 on engines with hydraulic lifters. Engines with solid lifters use the SAME pulley but it was BOLTED to the balancer. I don't know that the same bolt/rivet rule applies to '58 and I wouldn't assume that it does.


In any event, now that I can see what you have, I can give you better guidance about what you need.

Short version: You've got a bunch of mis-matched parts.

Longer version:

You need a different crank pulley (which bolts to the balancer):

The one you want is a deep groove pulley which lays flat against the balancer and looks like this:



Paragon and others sell it: "991" crank pulley

You also need a different water pump pulley, one known as a stepped pulley, which also has a deep groove. The correct pulley looks like this:



Note, however, there is another stepped pulley, a service replacement part, which shows up often which is INCORRECT. This is the INCORRECT pulley, note the serrations around the edge:



From Dan Holstein's excellent article, I read that you need to use the 3-5/8" generator pulley which offsets the pulley forward of the fan. I believe you already have one of these.

Armed with these three correct pulleys, if you still have misalignment, it isn't the fault of the pulleys. The fault WILL be with that sloppy generator bracket, which I'm unpersuaded is the right one.

Jim

jusplainwacky

I managed to get my generator and pulleys all setup like a later 58 and still be able to close my hood without the hood support on the passenger side hitting the generator. I will provide detailed information on what I did to accomplish this later.

In the meantime there is something that is perplexing Rich and myself...and it appears that I do not have the spacer on the crankshaft that moves the harmonic balance out, yet my harmonic balance is lined up with the water pump pulley. I do not know if perhaps it can go on any further, but I have the bolt in the front and it is tight.

The length of my water pump pulley is 2 1/4" and apparently the inside edge of the pulley is at the right distance out from the motor mount bracket. The early 58 had the "stepped" style pulley and mine doesn't which is OK, cause I'm going with the later 58 design as the early designed sucked.

I measured from the front of the crankshaft to where it bottomed out behind the timing chain cover and it was 1.3. In an email I relayed that information to Rich and he took a measurement off one of his engines and got the same thing WITHOUT the spacer...I thought he said with the spacer, so I figured I was good to go and I put on the harmonic balance and pulley.

Now the question is...how is everything lining up if I don't have the spacer?? Perhaps if someone can tell me how far the harmonic balance is from the timing chair cover, that might give me something to check.

mashinter

If the pulleys are designed for C1 Corvette only, it makes sense to design them so a spacer is not required.

jim lockwood

Except that they weren't designed that way. The spacer behind the balancer is present to exactly compensate for the thickness of the motor mount between the block and the water pump.

jusplainwacky

That's what Rich was saying....so something doesn't add up.

rich5962

I'm doing a parts buck mock-up of everything on a 283 on a stand I have here and will be done and posted this afternoon. With measurements, pulleys, balancer, generator, brackets, etc. I have about 40 pictures so far as I'm building it....stay tuned.

Rats, I only have a FI U-Bracket.......can somebody email one to me.

rich5962

Info here....

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1588379670