20round

i was reading several months ago about the m22 and how it was started in 1965. the release date was 4/19/65 .. it was a real interesting right up, and the guy that did it, basically sounded like he a list of vins that recieved a m22? i just found a another 396 roadster smashed very bad, almost unrepairable. the owner says it is a m22 car? im sure everyone says that sometime or another when restoring there car! BUT ANY WAY, can someone tell me who wrote that story, and where i can find it again?

Nowhere Man

Al Greening had a write up on the first use of the M22 and L88's. It's been awhile since I read it. I was at a seminar put on by him about the topic. Not sure if it's the one you are talking about

20round

sounds like it might be ! thanks

Nowhere Man

No clue in where you would find it though

Powershift

If the trans is truly an M22, it was probably added later by the owner. According to Noland Adams in his C2 Book, there are no records of an M22 sold in 1965 model year. NCRS Judging Manual indicates that 30 units were built and sold for special racing applications for high profile racers. But none were available before April 15, 1965.

I would pull the trans side cover and check for the cut of the gears…..also for a trans fluid drain plug. M22 gears were cut different than the rest. I would also check for the numbers that are cast into the trans body and for the numbers that are stamped vertically on the body flange indicating year of production and VIN derivative of the car. That should settle it.

Larry

4 Speed Dave

There is an appendix about the 1965 M22 in " 1965-1969 Chevrolet by the numbers" book by Alan Colvin

Read the last paragraph on the last page...

20round

ALAN COLVIN!!! i IT IS ALL COMING BACK TO ME NOW!!!! i have it at home i think.. i did read a on line artical about the same thing though, and it had to be written by him,it was worded the same..and it had very cool pics with it....what book was that page taken from? i have several of his books ...thanks guys

20round

sorry, i just seen what book it was at the top of the post.. Woops i have that one!! Thanks again

GUSTO14

Wow, that could be a good deal, and very rare as well...

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/pts/4864261358.html

GUSTO

DZAUTO

I'm kind of surprised that 65 M22s haven't been "cloned", because it woule be tooooooooooooo easy to do.
I'm not going to divulge any specifics, only to say that a 325 case would need to be modified for an M22 gear set (there are several specifics that would require attention).
Or, someone could just bore out their 63-65 case and install ANY gear set for a 1in cluster gear shaft. I've had Larry Fischer do this for me a few times. When Larry has done this for me, he has also raised the cluster shaft a few thou to tighten up the gear mesh which also adds some strength.

65 fi

I have a 65 M20 with a M22 gear set. Is the only lacking item the lower drain plug? It seems to me there was an article mentioning the early M22s were simply M20 cases with the second drain plug taped into them?

20round

well only alan knows for sure the differences! biggest thing bieng the
1" pin and then off course the m22 gear set.. but as alan says in his artical, he left out a few secrets to keep fakers at bay! i would be interested in knowing where the first vin was that showed up with a m22? i am hoping to get a look at the crashed car i found to snap a pic of vin tags..even if its not a m22 car, i know for a fact it is a L78 whitch is very cool!!

Auto Gear

One thing not mentioned here is that if you bush a case, or convert a 7/8ths case to 1"..AND you feel the need to raise the countershaft up, you need to make damn sure that the 2 shaft centerlines are parallel. I would not do this with used gears. If the gears have developed a bit of a "crossbite" (worn unevenly); it could create a host of issues. I'd also avoid the so-called "oversized countershaft pins" because they can close up the tolerance on the loose needles too much and cause issues.

There is really no need to tighten up the QUALITY M22-based gearsets; since the limiting factor is NOT the gearset, the OEM case will flex long before a good rock crusher gearset will give up. If the gears fail prematurely, its very likely that the case flexed, has developed a twist or the two shaft centerlines are no longer parallel.

Im not trying to single anyone out, especially DZ or Larry. I have the utmost respect for both. Both these guys know what they are doing. However, a novice who doesn't know can do more harm than good.

With regards to '65 rock crushers; we've never seen one in person. In fact, the number of actual rock crushers we've seen is very, very low. But Ive seen a lot of M21 "rockcrushers" LOL

20round

your right i have seen a lot of the muncies from the 70s that people swore they had a 22 because it had a drain plug!!!

Auto Gear

Hurst didn't do us any favors because they published stuff that refers to the 26 spline in/32 spline output Muncies as 'M22' There are 10/27 spline input M22s, about 4 years worth of production.

DZAUTO

UNLESS A CUSTOMER DOES NOT WANT IT DONE----------I always add a drain plug to every Muncie I rebuild. And all the ones I acquire, I also put a drain plug in them. It's really quite simple to add one.

There is a circle in the center of the drain plug boss, drill a pilot hole right in the center.






The threads are 1/2in pipe, so the correct drill bit is 11/16.



Tap with a 1/2in pipe tap------------use plenty of lubricant.






I use a magnetic drain plug------------AND REMOVE THE MAGNETIC DONUT THAT IS IN THE BOTTOM OF THE CASE!

DZAUTO

And I totally, completely agree 100% with these comments/observations.
I DO NOT bush cases and I DO NOT bore out a 7/8 case for a 1in cluster shaft------------------I HAVE IT DONE BY EXPERIENCED MACHINISTS.

Now, with all of this said, from my viewpoint, if it is important to have an original Muncie in a car, or if the car is not going to see regular, severe abuse, then by all means, rebuild your Muncie.
BUUUUUUUUT, if it is (for whatever reason) essential to have a strong 4sp that is NOT numbers matching, then I feel the BEST option is a new Super Case Muncie, such as sold by Auto Gear.