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To me and original matching number car is one that all numbers match and still has all the original accessories. Starters, generators, caburators and alternators should be rebuilt instead of replaced.
It is impossible to prove parts that lack the VIN of the car were originally installed parts from the factory. Was this carb installed at the factory for my June 17, 1967 L-79?
Rick
The parts with date codes could go on and on but no way to prove they were originally installed at the factory. My car had not been restored other than paint.
Rick
I understand what you are saying about parts that do not have a VIN derivative, but that isn't the question.
A generator (as an example) with a replacement stamped tag is easily identifiable as a different tag than the original tag. The orientation of the lettering on the reproduction Delco tags is different that the original tags.
So the generator tag would be easily identified as a re-stamped tag.
The issue is not whether the generator is original to the car; the issue is that the generator has been re-stamped.
Lets extend that analogy a bit.
Lets talk about a 1959 Corvette. None of the parts have a VIN derivative stamped on them. So, what difference does it make if the engine is re-stamped or not.
Lets say the car was an original 270 hp car (determined from the tach redline and no indication of fuel injection, or maybe even original paperwork). However, the original engine is missing. Lets say the original generator is also missing.
So, we are going to build a restoration engine for the car. Part of that effort is re-stamping the engine pad for the correct engine suffix code.
It is not the "born with" engine, but assuming the re-stamping was done properly, how would anyone know?
Maybe we start with a virgin block that has never been stamped, or perhaps a passenger car block that only needs a single character added to the end of the suffix code (i.e. FI028C becomes FI028CU).
So we have a re-stamped (or added stamp) engine and generator. Both are built to the correct specs. The engine stamp is not detectible, the replacement generator tag is detectible.
We wave the generator tag as a non-issue and go bat crap over the engine stamp.
Realistically, what is the difference? The difference is economics. We value the engine stamp that is dead on ***** accurate more than we value the not quite right generator.
So, we have an original 270 hp 59 Corvette that has a correctly configured numbers matching 270 hp engine, and a almost correctly configured generator. We have created restoration parts for both the engine and the generator.
so back to my original question...what is the difference in re-stamping an engine and re-stamping a generator?
so back to my original question...what is the difference in re-stamping an engine and re-stamping a generator?[/QUOTE]
OK, the difference is re-stamping an engine part does not necessarily mean that the owner changed the HP engine the car originally came with. Restamping an engine carries the stigma that someone has changed the HP of the car for example making a 327 67 into a 427 67 for instance or a 63 340hp into a fuelie etc. etc.
so back to my original question...what is the difference in re-stamping an engine and re-stamping a generator?
OK, the difference is re-stamping an engine part does not necessarily mean that the owner changed the HP engine the car originally came with. Restamping an engine carries the stigma that someone has changed the HP of the car for example making a 327 67 into a 427 67 for instance or a 63 340hp into a fuelie etc. etc.[/QUOTE]
How do you make a 67 327 into a 67 427 by re-stamping? If you can't tell a small block car that has been made into a big block you should stick to collecting rubber bands.
Regarding the original question, the difference of re stamping an engine vs an alternator starts with intent. If the intent is to defraud then while both my be considered unethical, it's likely the engine re stamp is worse given the potential impact on value. In other words if you shelled out top dollar assuming it had the original engine and original alternator my guess is you'd be more upset if you found out the engine was re stamped vs the alternator. It comes down to the impact on the value.
If you re stamp both and make it known to the buyer it's ok but you may have ambled him or her to sell it as original. I'll let you be the judge of that.
I know conversations on standardization of terms would be nice!
One member above hit on the same as me, when matching numbers is stated. I consider this the highest standard meaning dates are in line as well as engines, transmissions, rear diff, etc. etc. But then it could be added- Original or with reproduction parts. With changed or reproduction components, then I would expect that included- reproduction parts in the conversation. A car can be Original engine, but non-matching numbers. Restamping VINS I think is still illegal in most states, restamping the build-- I would like a tear down rule in effect, just like in racing to double check the claim!
Maybe we can take a bunch of ads and rank them as to claim and refine the broad differing intrepretations by all of us of all of these hot button terms-- original, Matching numbers, Survivor, restored, reproduction, etc. !
Last edited by TCracingCA; 03-01-2015 at 05:18 AM.
How do you classify a car that has a carburetor or alternator that has its original numbering but didn't come on the car although it matches the range of possible date codes for the car it's on?
How do you classify a car that has a carburetor or alternator that has its original numbering but didn't come on the car although it matches the range of possible date codes for the car it's on?
Ed
How do you prove it? Unless you know the car before it was worked on.
How do you classify a car that has a carburetor or alternator that has its original numbering but didn't come on the car although it matches the range of possible date codes for the car it's on?
Ed
That would depend entirely on whether or not the carburetor carbureted or the alternator alternated as far as I'm concerned. Same way with the engine or any other part on the car.
That would depend entirely on whether or not the carburetor carbureted or the alternator alternated as far as I'm concerned. Same way with the engine or any other part on the car.
OK, the difference is re-stamping an engine part does not necessarily mean that the owner changed the HP engine the car originally came with. Restamping an engine carries the stigma that someone has changed the HP of the car for example making a 327 67 into a 427 67 for instance or a 63 340hp into a fuelie etc. etc.
How do you make a 67 327 into a 67 427 by re-stamping? If you can't tell a small block car that has been made into a big block you should stick to collecting rubber bands.[/QUOTE]
OK, I think that you should know the answer but if not then there's no point in explaining it to you. Maybe you can start another thread that will get deleted or locked
How do you make a 67 327 into a 67 427 by re-stamping? If you can't tell a small block car that has been made into a big block you should stick to collecting rubber bands.
OK, I think that you should know the answer but if not then there's no point in explaining it to you. Maybe you can start another thread that will get deleted or locked [/QUOTE]
He knows more about the answer then anyone of us. But his answer is a trap and everyone in his eyes owns a inferior car and all should bow to his supreme knowledge of 67 BB cars.
Maybe we can take a bunch of ads and rank them as to claim and refine the broad differing intrepretations by all of us of all of these hot button terms-- original, Matching numbers, Survivor, restored, reproduction, etc. !
02-27-2015, 11:49 PM
If you can't tell a small block car that has been made into a big block you should stick to collecting rubber bands.
