donbayers

What is my car worth?

I’m reaching out to the good folks here to help me evaluate my car for potential sale. I will provide all the detail I can and my own thoughts on valuation.

I appreciate any and all input so that I can hopefully move forward with a reasonable expectation of what to price it at as well as not apologize for its value or asking price understanding all the work that has been done.

Details:
1963 VIN 115968, May build, 327/340hp, Silver Blue, dark blue interior, replacement 1964 block.

Owned for 2.5 years; did not get any substantial history on the car but it was delivered new in Florida.

Reason for selling is that I have a great opportunity to purchase a 66 BB Coupe local to me. Not possible for me to have three so the 63 must go. A really neat story to share if all works out.

Everything on this car has been touched except the paint! I wanted to do this car to a high level of correct technical and mechanical detail not worrying about the paint or driving it around. All that is left to do on this car to make it an overall high quality restoration is the paint.

Body/other:
1. The body on this car is pretty exceptional. I’ve been told this by many folks that should know what they are talking about. This original body has no “damage” anywhere. The only area is a very small repair on a lower corner by the rear tail light. All bonding strip lines are visible all the way around the car. I’m told this is desirable. A pro painter said he thought it has had one full re-spray and a few areas of touch up. The paint is very correct from a color and metallic size standpoint. It has a number of scratches and small door chips as well as shows age in the tiny spider cracking. It’s a decent 20-footer if you will
2. I have some of the best original hubcaps you will find anywhere. I got lucky on that I guess. I had no idea when I bought the car how lucky. Ha! Small victories

Drive train/frame/mechanics
1. Original rear spring was replaced with new correct Eaton unit, kept original. Ride height is perfect.
2. Original 4:11, correct dated, gear was replaced with a new 3:36 gear and a new Eaton posi unit
3. Original trailing arms were replaced with new units with all new bearings etc.
4. The supporting member that the pumpkin bolts to, that attaches to the sombrero’s was replaced.
5. One of the half shafts was replaced as well as all new u-joints everywhere.
6. Drive shaft balanced with new u-joints
7. Number 4 frame member was replaced with a new OEM unit and welded into place.
8. The rest of the frame has some rust but is serviceable and safe and has been looked at by multiple mechanics
9. Original transmission (Muncie) with correct dates and VIN stamp was completely rebuilt and a new wide ratio gear installed to mate to the 3:36 rear end.
10. New Luk clutch was installed along with new correct 63 fork, throw out bearing and thrust bushing.
11. The engine block is an 870 but is NOT dated correctly (DEC 64). I did a complete rebuild of the engine and found that most all the 340HP parts were correctly dated for the May build. The windage tray looked like the original lost a rod and that is why there is a replacement block. All engine parts were of good quality and documented, eagle rods, TRW pistons (.060 over) crank turned .010 etc etc. Correct 609 water pump, carb, distributor (by Lars) etc etc. rebuilt Alt which is not correct but I have correct core that goes with the car. I restored the engine compartment to as close to factory as I could. New exhaust manifolds (2.5”) and all parts restored to high level of accuracy and appearance. Carb done to correct show factory condition. Used flat pistons for 10-1 CR and used stock 300HP cam and hydraulic lifters. Original balancer a restored by Damper Doctor. New fan clutch.
12. I took the liberty with adding the Borgeson power steering unit and pump. I have the original steering gear and in fine shape.
13. The entire brake system has been checked and any issues were addressed. All drums in excellent shape and had been freshly turned. Pads in fine shape. Replaced rear hydraulic units and adjusted. Brand new GM correct replacement Master cylinder. Brakes function excellent. Emergency brake functions as well.
14. New aluminized exhaust system from corvette Central with the N-11 mufflers (welded). New tips and all hangers etc and new heat riser unit.
15. New correct dated Dewitt radiator $900 and all new correct hoses.
16. New set of replacement service horns
17. All new Lectric Limited wiring harnesses in the entire engine compartment.
18. New battery tray attached to frame.
19. I did take liberty with the shifter after installing a factory 63 unit. I did not like it so I put in a new 66-67 type that mounts to the frame. It functions great and I like the chrome.
20. Fuel line repaired for safety (ran new metal under body as best could with body on) and new flex brake lines
21. Completely rebuilt the heater core box and installed new core which was reinforced by a radiator shop with extra solder. All new rubber stuff from kit. Etc
22. All new Delco shocks and spring bushing kit etc.
23. All original 63 rims painted with new $1200 Michelin X Diamond Back tires with correct white wall. About 1200 miles on them. Have spare tire rim.
24. Professional 4 wheel alignment documented and the car drives fantastic with no pulling or weird feelings going on.
25. Front wheel bearings replaced and in fine shape.


Interior:
1. Professional shop did a complete gutting of the interior by removing all parts to expose birdcage. Dash pads and middle section were dyed in dark blue. All new Al Knoch interior carpet (with heat mat), seat foams, seat cushions were used. Full restoration of instruments was done including odometer and trip unit (set back to zero). New tach and speedo cable. ALL NEW wire harness and fuse box!. Steering column rebuilt. Original steering wheel restored. ALL new correct NOS 63 correct seatbelts with restored buckles ($750 just for this).
2. Original radio works
3. Clock restored by Clockworks
4. All things function correctly.
5. All new correct replacement headlights and units function great.
6. Wipers work fine but I have not tried to fix the washer part of this.
7. Convertible top is a serviceable replacement with all new rubber. Functions great but does lose judging points because of window heat seal and does not have tag.
8. All new light bulbs. Have all the receipts for many small interior/dash items replaced.
9. Pedal box rebuilt as well and new side air vents. Many other small new parts replaced.
10. Original glove box door has a crack in it along the bottom. Otherwise decent looking
11. Doors completely rebuilt including the window vent regulators and new door pulls etc.
12. All new weather stripping around doors and up pillars etc.

There are a multitude of small things I’m not remembering but I have every receipt for all the parts and work that has been done. I realize that I will not get my money back to breakeven (or close to it) but I also don’t think I should apologize the all the work that has been done and let someone beat me up about the paint.

I’m of the mindset that there are a lot of great looking cars out there (I call the mop and glow) for which most of the things I’ve done have not been addressed. Sure they look great, but are junk under that shiny paint!

I consider the car to fall midway between a condition two and a condition three car on the Hagerty Classic Car value guide. I’m hoping that many here will recognize the work done and consider that into the estimation.

Thanks to so many who have helped me the last several years. It’s been a real education for sure and I don’t regret it for a minute. This car has taught me a lot and led me to new friends and experiences.

54greg

With perfect paint 50K, paint as discribed 42K a little less if you want to move quickly

Gary's '66

I'm guessing it's worth a bit more $ than 54greg (maybe 50-55) but the biggest factor you have against you is TIME. If you're able to buy the other car and, wait for the right buyer, then I think you'll get closer to what I think it may be worth. On the other hand, if you need to "unload" it in a hurry you're probably going to take a beating.
Great looking car! The only things I see that stand out is that the seats and arm rest weren't done too well, lots of wrinkles and the gap at the passenger side door. Good luck.

Gary

jprop

Pretty car. Good luck with the sale.

Bowlerdude

Man this is a tough call.

I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed.

GLWTS

Mr Fufu

Hi Don,

Very nice car, and your quality restoration work shows well. I'd probably guess the car should bring anywhere between $45-50k, depending as mentioned on how 'motivated' you are to sell.

A slight hit on value would be the non-original engine block. But not everyone cares about strict originality, and you've rebuilt yours in such a way that only the most experienced would know it wasn't exactly correct.

If you don't mind, may I ask a couple of questions about your restoration:

1. How did you restore your cast aluminum valve covers? Did you bead blast them, refinsh them using Aluma-Blast paint, or send them to Fred Hudson, the go-to guy others recommend here?

2. What was behind your decision to replace the 'Duntov' solid lifter cam that originally came with the 340hp engine, with the 300hp hydraulic cam? I note you also put in 10:1 pistons. I presume these changes were made to improve driveability using today's lower octane fuels. But, were there other reasons? What difference did you notice from before you rebuilt the engine? Did you gain more bottom end torque after the rebuild? Did you find the solid lifter engine difficult to keep in tune, or unsuitable for your style of driving?

Good luck with your sale, and best wishes in getting that BB '66 coupe!

Revfan

I am not sure what the market is like for NOM 63 Convertibles. Its obvious you put a lot of time effort, and money into the car.

Fortunately, Spring is here and Convertible weather will help the sale. It looks to be Condition 2-ish, save for the paint issues.

My guess would be $50, give or take a few thousand... but you would need to have a buyer that was hot on a 63 Vert.

A quick search on C-List shows some current competition...

This one is in Florida as well...
1963 Corvette - $47500 (lakeland fl)





1963 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Roadster Convertible - $63000 (Michigan)



1963 corvette cov. - $49500 (owosso)



Corvette Roadster - Numbers Matching L75 - $57000 (Long Island)

donbayers

Thanks for the questions

1. Aluminum parts sent to Fred Hudson

2. When I bought the car it did not have the 340 pistons or cam. I decided to keep simple for drive-ability

Regards

donbayers

Revfan;

I'm willing to bet that the CL cars you posted have no where near the mechanical work done on them as I have done.

thanks for posting

65silververt

Beautiful car!

This is my honest opinion and you did ask, so please do not take offense. I think you've done a wonderful job with the car but it is lacking its original engine. Matching number 63 convertible 340hp cars that are restored sell in the range of 50,000-60,000 on average, mostly towards the bottom of that range. So, i am putting your car at $42,000-45,000 range. Again, it is a beautiful car!

ChattanoogaJSB

I would say $45k ish give or take a couple thousand. It is a very nice car with a solid birdcage and you seem to have it very well groomed mechanically. On the other hand, a 63/64 convertible are the less expensive of the mid years value wise, and I think the car being NOM, not being built to 340 spec, without a frame-off, and with the history of frame work, will all keep you from top dollar.

I'm used to people being critical of my '64 and I simply love it for my own sake, but I respect the fact that '64's DO bring a little less, and I've seen over the years the same is true for a '63 convertible. Anyone eyeing the car critically is going to say it's$45k (again, "ish") is a good price for a car a large segment is going to want to paint, like it or not. If you had the car painted and paid the $15k that's always being tossed about here, the car would not increase in value relative to the dollars spent.

Please don't be offended, Don- you have an awesome car and there is a lot it has going for it.

Kerrmudgeon

Beautiful job on the car but purists are going to discount a few things on the car so you need to find a buyer with a similar mind set as you have regarding drivability of the car. I'm surprised if you went to the lengths you did that you kept the drum brakes.
So it's kind of in between what a purist wants and what an owner who wants to DRIVE it a lot wants.

Drawbacks to me are (I like drivers) :
- the "servicable" frame (if it was rusted in one area, odds are that it may need other repairs as well)
- paint, deduct a good 5-8K for "20 footer" paint
- no hard top.
- didn't convert to disc brakes.

So, unfortunately you're going to lose money on it from the sounds of it. I'd put the sale value at 47,500$ if you find the right guy.

OldKarz

Nice car. I would guess a 40-45k car. There are many people that will see this car for sale and not have a clue as to what we all think. It would not surprise me if you sell it for 50k! GLWS!

donbayers

Thanks for that glimmer of hope

I appreciate the responses so far even if they are a bit depressing. It's not about trying to break even... I'm sure many folks here know that feeling and would laugh or cry with me knowing how much money went into it. I'll have to decided just how much I want to take it in the shorts.

Funny, no one mentioned the Hagerty Value Guide yet. Is it complete horse shat then? It is only about what's hot at the moment? If this was a SWC then people would be all over it right? and then the Hagerty values would mean something...

65silververt

Considering they have a #1 condition 340hp Convertible valued at $117,000 average, I would say yes. That is not even true for matching number 340hp split windows.

65hihp

Don- I have not yet figured out what the Hagerty value guide is all about, or where those numbers come from. But they do not relate to any world I live in. Most of us can imagine based on the photos you show what you have spent on the car. My guess is you are close to what most guys have said the value of your car is. ie. around $45K. You should come out just fine if you got the car for free. But, if you paid around market price for the car, ie, around $30K -40K based on what it appears that it needed, then you are going have to eat a big chuck of what you spent. I would say somehow try to find a Euro or Aussie buyer. Sometimes they will pay nutty money to get a good solid American classic, like you have there. Good luck,
dh

tubman

I would take the online price guides with a LARGE grain of salt. I am with Condon and Skelly, and when I renewed my policy last month, I decided to re-value all of my cars. They have a link to one of these valuation guides from their website. It gave a value for my '67 L79 frame-off restored coupe at 65K-122.5K! I asked them if they would write me for an agreed value of 122.5K and they said, if I paid the premium, yes.

Revfan

I'll jump back in to add a bit more.
I was only posting the current listings for 63 Verts as gut check for what else is out there. Its obvious from your pictures that a lot of time effort and thought went into your restoration, so I am not going to take your bet!

Also...
The guys who are on this forum are pretty well acquainted with the current corvette market, and in my opinion, we tend to under-value cars when it comes to putting prices on them (when we are asked to take the buyers perspective).
Why?
Well, the rabid Corvette folk tend to "see" more cars than your average dreamer/wanna be buyer. Having just about completed a body on restoration myself, I have a pretty good idea of what the cost of things are in the realm of 67 Small Block Roadsters. And you get similar experiences from others here on the forum that are intimately familiar with 63s, 65s, 66s...etc.

About 2 years ago, there was a pretty good discussion about what the price of a basket case big block was. Most of the folks here ripped it apart, and told the original poster that they wouldn't pay more than $20K... cause it needed EVERYTHING.

Its been a while, and may have the numbers mixed up, but I swear that it sold on eBay for about $35K.

Did that make the folks on this forum wrong?
Not Necessarily. All the forum responders were tempering their "values" on what it would take them to get the car restored to their own satisfaction. That runs the gamut from NCRS/Bowtie winners to patina'd survivors but for most its:
X + Y <Z
X= Cost of Car, Y Cost of restoration to level desired, Z = Current Market Value
The kicker in the formula is Y, because there is a point in restoration where you start spend more than the car will be worth.

A quick non corvette example that would illustrate the point would be a 1967 VW Bug. A completely restored example in pristine condition might be $10K. You could buy one for $4K and put $16K into a total restoration...
To the guy that restored it, its a $20K car.
But to the bug community... its a $10K car

What you are hoping for, is a guy who doesn't know a lot about Bugs, but he had one in the 60s and CAN spend $20K on having a really nice one. Is the bug community wrong?

I know I'll be shouted down by the large number of folks here that will say its not about resell value, or investment... we have these cars cause we love em'!
I understand what they are saying, but also, we never know what circumstances that will come along that necessitate us selling our beloved cars. Family member has crushing medical expenses? Kids College? Opportunity to buy Big Block?

Right or Wrong, there is a perceived and real difference between NOM and Original Motor Cars (which is why there are so many restamps out there). I have a NOM car as well, and in my restoration, I have had to keep an eye on "Y" of the formula so that I don't get underwater. Current market value for Condition 2ish 67 Convertibles with Original Motors is probably Mid 60s. For my car, I have to leave a buffer in there because once the price of my car even APPROACHES that of an original motor'd car, buyers will move toward the OM purchase.

I could put my NOM 67 Vert up for sale in the Classifieds here for $60K, and I would get a lot of thumbs up and GLWSs, but nobody here would bite because they know that for that money, they might be able to find an Original Motor'd Car.

I guess what I am saying is that this forum is kind of like the real-estate market. We are looking for the worst house in the best neighborhood as it usually has more upside than the best house in the worst neighborhood.

Its obvious from you postings, you are a little discouraged from the responses made here... do you mind me asking what you, as the restorer, would price it at (or were hoping to get?)




**EDIT**
I just went for a walk and was thinking about this, so I wanted to add it.
Not all the benefits that we get from our car are financial. There is joy in turning nuts, wire-wheeling rust, and bringing a car "up" to our own standards. That doesn't even take into account the friendships, the cruises, sunny day drives, or just sitting in a chair with a beer in you hand praising God that you are lucky enough to own one of these things.
There is no shame in over-restoring ( or under-restoring for that matter), modding, or taking it back to stock.
We just have to realize that not all of our efforts will pay off in dollars, as, more often than not, we have already been paid back in intangibles.

Frankie the Fink

Its a little hard to be realistic about the cars you own. Once you have poured your sweat and blood into them they take on a value (in your own eyes) that is prob out of line with what others will see. Just the nature of the beast. And never, NEVER add up the receipts, pile that number onto the purchase price of the car and tell buyers, "...this is what I have in it!". The smart ones don't give a cr@p. Its 'sunk cost'...the car has to stand on its own merits whether it came to you in great shape or you paid the bucks to get it there....

The online price value guides and occasional "crazy money" auction sales that take place breed false hope for what our cars are worth to the public.

I think the very upper 40K range is about right for this car....if presented in the right venue.

However, having said all that, I was told my '67 NOM Chevelle SS-396 was a $28K-$30K car on its best day.

It sold on eBay two years ago for $38,500. I built a 'killer' ad though....it helps....walk-around videos of the car starting, idling, revving up, radio playing, body gaps, engine bay. Like a good meal...a lot of the appeal is in the presentation.

Rich Yanulis

Revfan,
I couldn't have said it better!

That's why they call this a HOBBY