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Wilbur, The first issue you may have is getting those nuts off the carriage bolts. Be careful there. If the bolts start spinning that could get tricky. In order to replace the bolts the lower support section has to come apart.
In order to replace the shims, you will either have to raise the support, or cut slots in the shims and rubber bushing before installation.
To raise the support, remove the radiator. Then remove the 2 bolts on each side holding the inner skirts to the support. You may be able to raise it without removing the radiator but it could be more difficult.
The reason why I "think" (but not sure ) I need to replace the radiator support mount with a new kit...
I purchased a correct 58 fan shroud to replace the incorrect shroud that was in the car when I bought it.
The holes on the radiator support and the holes on the fan shroud don't lineup. The rad support is approximately 1/2 inch too low.
Several years ago I bought a radiator from Zip. None of the holes lined up.
I bought a repro upper shield and drilled new holes. The repro shield was cheaper than buying another radiator. The original shield went up in the loft. I also have the original radiator up there. I have no idea why.
Ok, I never throw out a '58 part. I also have 3 OEM fuel pumps in my loft.
Wilbur, Okay I thought you just needed to replace as it was, so this is a different issue now. You want to raise the support permanently?
You cannot "simply" raise the support 1/2". It's attached to the inner skirts, 2 bolts on each side. Normally, if you try to raise it, you will also raise the entire front nose of the car. Bumpers, etc are involved then.
This is a common issue with the 1958 to 1960 copper radiators and supports and shrouds. The fan shroud holes must line up with the support holes, which must line up with the integral mount nuts along the verticals of the radiator. In order for the lower shroud mount flanges to mate with the frame horns of the chassis, all of these distances are critical. Whenever I do a body off on a car of this era, this is the first check when the body goes on.....I test fit the support to shroud to frame attach points. I then shim the floor and rad support from that requirement.
For some reason yours doesn't line up. Check to see if the side holes in the skirts for the support are enlarged. Loosen them a bit and see if the support can move. But remember that when you move the support up, you are also raising the hood up from the body as the hood hinges attach to it. If this happens you'll have to lower the hood via the hinges......IF there is enough adjustment there.
few pictures of the 58 just after I purchased it, notice how close the bumpers are to the body. since then I've tried to adjust them lower.
Is it possible that my front radiator mount has worn to the point where the entire front end has dropped down?
I really appreciate your comments!
Thank you
I see a issue. The photos of the inner skirts with respect to the frame horns. The skirts are much too close to the frame than typical. This is the result of improper shimming, or yes the rad support could have rust issues and/or dropped over time.
This can also cause the bumper issue you're seeing. Many times I've worked on these after a body is returned to frame by others. It's critical to get the support and shroud and radiator holes lined up when placing the body back on. That is the baseline everything else feeds from.
On a '61 I received here, the painted body was restored and returned to the frame before I got it in. The prior restorers shimmed the body, attached the support and the bumpers and grille. But they didn't check the rad support to shroud to frame.
The first thing I checked was the inner skirts to the frame horns. They were pushing hard down onto the horns. The right side was pressing so hard it was actually flexing the skirt so it wouldn't move. I knew I had a problem.
I had to remove the bumpers. Thankfully no steering column was installed. The rad support/skirt assembly was about what you have, 1/2" too low. I had to add shims to the support underneath, and added shims to the floors in all 4 forward positions.
After shimming this was the skirt to frame separation......
There was only 1 thin shim at the support to frame point. You can see how much I added.....
Side bolt reference pics....Remember, if you slot holes in the skirts and raise the support, you will also raise the hood.
You may have a chance to raise the nose somewhat, but you may have to loosen bumper brackets. Try a experiment....
Loosen those side support 5/16" bolts. Also, loosen the bolts on the bottom of the support, and also the lower valence brace to rad support.
Carefully try to raise the nose by pulling upward from the grille area. It'd be best if you have a helper to see if you get movement upwards.
Also keep in mind that the steering column is hard fastened to the body at the firewall and inside. You may get resistance from that also. And the support side extensions are fixed to the support so you may need to loosen those bolts also. Sometimes you can get a little bit of movement there, but they are lined up with everything also.
Thanks Rich, excellent pictures, very helpful I appreciate it.
I noticed your measurement from the lower part of the radiator support to the bottom of the third arm mounting bracket measured just over 1 inch in your picture, my measurement in the same area was approximately 3/4 of an inch. my shims and bushing look to be very worn in this area. I'm waiting on my new radiator mounting kit to come in.
I'll update once I received and installed it.
Thanks Rich, excellent pictures, very helpful I appreciate it.
I noticed your measurement from the lower part of the radiator support to the bottom of the third arm mounting bracket measured just over 1 inch in your picture, my measurement in the same area was approximately 3/4 of an inch. my shims and bushing look to be very worn in this area. I'm waiting on my new radiator mounting kit to come in.
I'll update once I received and installed it.
Yours seems like there are NO shims above the 3rd Arm brace, maybe hard to see in your photo. They're made of hard cardboard and can deteriorate over time.
Also, you can notch the holes in the shims to make a U shape to slide them in from the front.
Maybe your nose has just drooped over the years and re-shimming can get you back to a better placement. Another telltale I forgot to mention was your side fenders. Eyeball from headlight outer area along the side and toward the rear of the car and see if the fender bulges out a bit just over the wheels. Both sides. Hopefully just adding shims can get you there.
I got the bolts off of the bottom of the radiator support without any issues, thank goodness. I slowly jacked up the radiator support until the holes of the fan shroud and the radiator support lined up perfectly. but as you can see in the picture I'll need around 3/4 of a inch of space to fill with shims. Is this too high?
I got the bolts off of the bottom of the radiator support without any issues, thank goodness. I slowly jacked up the radiator support until the holes of the fan shroud and the radiator support lined up perfectly. but as you can see in the picture I'll need around 3/4 of a inch of space to fill with shims. Is this too high?
Did you raise the support while still attached to the skirts? If you did then it appears it sagged over time.
How do the bumpers fit now?
It isn't too high. Fill in with the shims and you should be good.
I loosened the 4 radiator support bolts 2 on each side then both bumper bolts that attach to the inner fenders before I jacked the rad support.
The bumper fit is WAY better and the inner fender to frame is gap is perfect.
You were correct, there was no shims at all just the worn out bushing material on top of the 3rd arm.
Thanks so much Rich.
I received my radiator mount kit today.
The three skinny shims aren't even close enough to fill the three quarter inch gap between the third arm and lower rad support. I guess I'll have to make my own (I have some cork used for making gaskets will that be ok? . How common is it to have such a large gap to be filled at the radiator/3rd arm support?
edit.....I think your lower horizontals may be backwards? Hard to see from your close-up.
There are flanges on the main/top shroud which are fastened to the horizontal. It has to line up over those and IIRC is alongside the Sway Bar brackets. It can really go only one way.
You can see the 2 small holes for the attaching screws here. There should be weld nuts underneath for the screws.
Great advise from Rich. One other thing to add is about the shims. The kits come with several parts (some cardboard, some rubber and the steel plate ect) but the filler ones you would most need are essentially a compressed cardboard. With water exposure and time these deteriorate or even disintegrate (as mine had done. I decided not to use those and made my own assortment of l_U___U_l shaped shims out of Stainless Steel and painted them black (so they look like the originals) and was very pleased with the results achieved and knowing they will last forever. Something to consider for anyone doing this job I/M/O. Pilot Dan
04-17-2015, 04:32 PM
1958 radiator support mounting kit
Pilot Dan
