Replacing all the wiring in a '61 - what will I run into?
04-24-2015, 09:04 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Replacing all the wiring in a '61 - what will I run into?
I've like to replace all of the wiring in my '61 manual transmission convertible so I'll need the "deluxe set". I know it's going to be a lot of work but will I have any real surprises? If there are a lot of them I can just replace the dash, engine, rear lamp and few other minor assemblies.
I'm figuring a couple of days added to the entire fix-up which includes dash pad, tach, and windshield. Time estimate about right?
I'm figuring a couple of days added to the entire fix-up which includes dash pad, tach, and windshield. Time estimate about right?
04-24-2015, 09:13 AM
#2
Team Owner
Double any estimate that seems reasonable for restoration work John - so, figure 3-4 days for the rewire. If you get the Dr. Rebuild schematics for your year Corvette it'll help immensely. Highly recommended. M&H or Lectric Limited both make fine harnesses.
I don't know what "surprises" you would hit; these cars are primitive but simple...it should go just fine; especially if you are getting the fuse box as part of the underdash wiring harness - that's really the only "troublemaker" in the whole car, electrically speaking. Fuse clips that have lost their "springiness", or, corrosion on that piece creates issues every time.
I don't know what "surprises" you would hit; these cars are primitive but simple...it should go just fine; especially if you are getting the fuse box as part of the underdash wiring harness - that's really the only "troublemaker" in the whole car, electrically speaking. Fuse clips that have lost their "springiness", or, corrosion on that piece creates issues every time.
04-24-2015, 11:04 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks Frankie - and thanks for the stuff at NCRS. It's all part of a big rework of the "middle" of the car to bring it up to Top Flight.
04-26-2015, 06:40 AM
#5
Safety Car
John,
Some things to consider.....
Get yourself a full grommet kit. All of the originals will be hard and many will break apart as you run the new harnesses.
Take some photos underdash to re-trace the harness placement. It'll be tight where it turns from the hinge pillar to the cluster. Consider removing the clutch pedal rod to get the pedal down to the floor for a little more room when under there.
You'll need to pull the DS kick panel and sill plate to access the rear harness floor cover. Expect a few rusted screws on that cover. If any are broken, use a vise grip under the floor to turn them out CCW from below.
Vacuum out any debris from the harness access hole, and don't be surprised if you find some trinkets from the past. They end up there from lost items under the sill step hole.
Don't forget to get a new Clock harness. It's a small extension that ties into the main harness near the center console. Check condition of the Courtesy light wiring at the lamp. Often they need replacement after this many years.
There are long harness clips attached under dash to the windshield T-bolts. Make sure they're back in there after the windshield goes back in. Obviously watch the routing of the wiring through the saw-cables of the wiper system.
Do not overtighten the fuse panel attach screws. They go into bare fiberglass and strip easily. Just snug is fine.
You will have to remove the gas tank cover to access the fuel sender wiring. While you're in there you may want to replace the rubber hose connecting the sender to main line. Don't forget it'll have a siphon effect when you take it apart but will break when removed. Plenty of rags handy under the hose.
Your headlight harnesses will be old and crackly. Don't be surprised that you may decide to remove both headlight buckets from the body for refinishing. The new harnesses will need to be fed through the center hole on each and it may be tricky with the bulb dogdishes in the way anyhow.
Plan on getting under the car once to remove/install the engine harness.
The rear license light hookup and tail lights are straightforward, but make sure you clean all grounds thoroughly.
You have a substantial amount of work in addition to a dash pad and windshield R&R. Your time estimate may be a little light, as you will find as you take things apart you will find more to take care of.....
"while I'm in here I may as well do this......."
Good Luck,
Rich
Some things to consider.....
Get yourself a full grommet kit. All of the originals will be hard and many will break apart as you run the new harnesses.
Take some photos underdash to re-trace the harness placement. It'll be tight where it turns from the hinge pillar to the cluster. Consider removing the clutch pedal rod to get the pedal down to the floor for a little more room when under there.
You'll need to pull the DS kick panel and sill plate to access the rear harness floor cover. Expect a few rusted screws on that cover. If any are broken, use a vise grip under the floor to turn them out CCW from below.
Vacuum out any debris from the harness access hole, and don't be surprised if you find some trinkets from the past. They end up there from lost items under the sill step hole.
Don't forget to get a new Clock harness. It's a small extension that ties into the main harness near the center console. Check condition of the Courtesy light wiring at the lamp. Often they need replacement after this many years.
There are long harness clips attached under dash to the windshield T-bolts. Make sure they're back in there after the windshield goes back in. Obviously watch the routing of the wiring through the saw-cables of the wiper system.
Do not overtighten the fuse panel attach screws. They go into bare fiberglass and strip easily. Just snug is fine.
You will have to remove the gas tank cover to access the fuel sender wiring. While you're in there you may want to replace the rubber hose connecting the sender to main line. Don't forget it'll have a siphon effect when you take it apart but will break when removed. Plenty of rags handy under the hose.
Your headlight harnesses will be old and crackly. Don't be surprised that you may decide to remove both headlight buckets from the body for refinishing. The new harnesses will need to be fed through the center hole on each and it may be tricky with the bulb dogdishes in the way anyhow.
Plan on getting under the car once to remove/install the engine harness.
The rear license light hookup and tail lights are straightforward, but make sure you clean all grounds thoroughly.
You have a substantial amount of work in addition to a dash pad and windshield R&R. Your time estimate may be a little light, as you will find as you take things apart you will find more to take care of.....
"while I'm in here I may as well do this......."
Good Luck,
Rich
04-26-2015, 07:00 AM
#6
Team Owner
Very good details from Rich naturally.
I know you are headed for judging John; but eventually if you drive the car you'll want to beef up the fusing...a lot of good info on here about that. These C1s were lightly fused at best and some key protection is missing entirely !
Before I "fired up" the new wiring I would, at a minimum have a 30 amp temporary fuse in series with the black wire that goes to the back of the ammeter.
I know you are headed for judging John; but eventually if you drive the car you'll want to beef up the fusing...a lot of good info on here about that. These C1s were lightly fused at best and some key protection is missing entirely !
Before I "fired up" the new wiring I would, at a minimum have a 30 amp temporary fuse in series with the black wire that goes to the back of the ammeter.
04-26-2015, 07:18 AM
#7
Safety Car
Very good details from Rich naturally.
I know you are headed for judging John; but eventually if you drive the car you'll want to beef up the fusing...a lot of good info on here about that. These C1s were lightly fused at best and some key protection is missing entirely !
Before I "fired up" the new wiring I would, at a minimum have a 30 amp temporary fuse in series with the black wire that goes to the back of the ammeter.
I know you are headed for judging John; but eventually if you drive the car you'll want to beef up the fusing...a lot of good info on here about that. These C1s were lightly fused at best and some key protection is missing entirely !
Before I "fired up" the new wiring I would, at a minimum have a 30 amp temporary fuse in series with the black wire that goes to the back of the ammeter.
As Frank called out, definitely fuse the Black wire source before power up and testing. And remember the AIM may be wrong showing the Ammeter connections. IIRC either the '61 or '62 AIM fixed that error, but I forget which.
Remember some black wires are power, and some are ground(with white tracer). turn each black wire so you don't miss any with the tracer.
Rich
04-26-2015, 07:52 AM
#8
Team Owner
Yes, good advice. There's a doc we wrote a while ago and I had in it a simple fuse link you can make for the Ignition "Brown" wire coming out of the Ign switch, which can be easily removed prior to judging. Dave Z did the pdf. (enclosed below).
As Frank called out, definitely fuse the Black wire source before power up and testing. And remember the AIM may be wrong showing the Ammeter connections. IIRC either the '61 or '62 AIM fixed that error, but I forget which.
Remember some black wires are power, and some are ground(with white tracer). turn each black wire so you don't miss any with the tracer.
Rich
As Frank called out, definitely fuse the Black wire source before power up and testing. And remember the AIM may be wrong showing the Ammeter connections. IIRC either the '61 or '62 AIM fixed that error, but I forget which.
Remember some black wires are power, and some are ground(with white tracer). turn each black wire so you don't miss any with the tracer.
Rich
04-26-2015, 09:14 AM
#9
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Feb 2011
Location: Middletown Ohio
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2016 C1 of Year Finalist
After you remove the old harness lay it out (it won't want to lay flat) and compare it wire to wire with the new harness.
On my early 57 I found the temp sender wire was orange ( as in 1956) not blue like on all later C1 Corvettes. The manufacturer changed it for me.
It is very doable, but take your time and follow Rich and Frankies good advise.
On my early 57 I found the temp sender wire was orange ( as in 1956) not blue like on all later C1 Corvettes. The manufacturer changed it for me.
It is very doable, but take your time and follow Rich and Frankies good advise.
05-26-2015, 12:48 AM
#11
Instructor
Great thread for me as I will be embarking on this same adventure this Winter.
Some advice about the ignition harness (Ijust replaced mine in my '61)...when wiring up the starter, it's just easier to undo the two starter bolts and drop it to the ground rather than try to rewire it attached to the car. Also pay attention as to which bolt came from which holes. One will have cross-hatch marks on it and needs to go into the correct hole.
Lastly, of course, make sure your battery is disconnected before you start 😎
Some advice about the ignition harness (Ijust replaced mine in my '61)...when wiring up the starter, it's just easier to undo the two starter bolts and drop it to the ground rather than try to rewire it attached to the car. Also pay attention as to which bolt came from which holes. One will have cross-hatch marks on it and needs to go into the correct hole.
Lastly, of course, make sure your battery is disconnected before you start 😎
05-28-2015, 12:35 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Feb 2004
Location: Norcal CA
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2018 C1 of Year Finalist
fuses helped on my car! Installed one for the following:
ignition switch brown wire
ammeter gauge
clock
lighter
plus fuseable link.
No problems with dead shorts if it happens.
ignition switch brown wire
ammeter gauge
clock
lighter
plus fuseable link.
No problems with dead shorts if it happens.
05-28-2015, 03:44 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
You should add the fuses suggested in the Mozzetta pdf download. All the mods in there are all good practice. The mods recommended in that download are those that have been recommended by many posters in this and other Corvette bulletin boards. All good stuff. Some people use a fusible link instead of the 30 amp fuse in the ignition line. But you won't go wrong with either way. There's discussion of this in the archives. Make sure you carry spare fuses and/or spare fusible links.
All these mods can be added after you install the harnesses. The only items that are "while you're in there" are the items in the gas tank compartment, the antenna cable, and an anti-theft "kill" switch.
While you're in the gas tank compartment, you should change all the rubber hoses if they are more than 5 years old. And you should add an additional grounding wire to the gas tank sender. Check the archives on this. This is an important item. Do not ignore it.
While you're running the harness to the rear of the car, that's a good time to replace the radio antenna cable, if it needs it. The wiring harness will install front to rear. The antenna cable can go in from either direction. When installing the harness and the antenna cable, tie a string to the old one before you remove it so that you can use the string as a messenger to install the new one. This is especially helpful if you do not remove the wiring cover on the sill.
If you think an ignition "kill" switch is a good idea, you may consider adding the wiring while you install the rear harness. Most ignition "kill" switches are installed in the passenger compartment where any half-wit thief can quickly locate them. What I did is run an ordinary looking black 14 gauge wire from the "-" coil terminal, alongside the existing ignition harness wire, through the passenger compartment alongside the rear wiring harness to a switch and a ground in the trunk. So my ignition "kill" switch is in my lockable C1 trunk. Going to the trunk is not a problem. Whenever I arrive at my destination, I open the trunk to put something in or to remove something anyway. If you think a "kill" switch is something you want, it's easier to install when you're doing the rear harness. Yes, your car won't start half the time because you'll forget whether you switched it or not. I'm used to that now too. A "kill" switch installation such as this one is somewhat stealthy. The 14 ga. black wire is mostly under the distributor shield. Use an allen head bolt on the distributor shield. Thieves may carry some tools. But it's not likely they carry allen head wrenches.
All these mods can be added after you install the harnesses. The only items that are "while you're in there" are the items in the gas tank compartment, the antenna cable, and an anti-theft "kill" switch.
While you're in the gas tank compartment, you should change all the rubber hoses if they are more than 5 years old. And you should add an additional grounding wire to the gas tank sender. Check the archives on this. This is an important item. Do not ignore it.
While you're running the harness to the rear of the car, that's a good time to replace the radio antenna cable, if it needs it. The wiring harness will install front to rear. The antenna cable can go in from either direction. When installing the harness and the antenna cable, tie a string to the old one before you remove it so that you can use the string as a messenger to install the new one. This is especially helpful if you do not remove the wiring cover on the sill.
If you think an ignition "kill" switch is a good idea, you may consider adding the wiring while you install the rear harness. Most ignition "kill" switches are installed in the passenger compartment where any half-wit thief can quickly locate them. What I did is run an ordinary looking black 14 gauge wire from the "-" coil terminal, alongside the existing ignition harness wire, through the passenger compartment alongside the rear wiring harness to a switch and a ground in the trunk. So my ignition "kill" switch is in my lockable C1 trunk. Going to the trunk is not a problem. Whenever I arrive at my destination, I open the trunk to put something in or to remove something anyway. If you think a "kill" switch is something you want, it's easier to install when you're doing the rear harness. Yes, your car won't start half the time because you'll forget whether you switched it or not. I'm used to that now too. A "kill" switch installation such as this one is somewhat stealthy. The 14 ga. black wire is mostly under the distributor shield. Use an allen head bolt on the distributor shield. Thieves may carry some tools. But it's not likely they carry allen head wrenches.
Last edited by chris ritchie; 05-28-2015 at 03:49 PM.