Mr Fufu

Why does my '67 300hp/327 run poorly on ethanol blended fuel? The engine is stock in configuration, 10.5:1 compression ratio (or is it 10.25:1?)

I live in Vancouver, BC. Here I can buy 94 octane non-ethanol blend fuel, which is the gasoline I always use. This fuel is only available at Chevron stations here.

I took my '67 coupe to Seattle and filled it up there with the highest octane fuel I could find, which was 92 octane. The pump said "10% ethanol blend". Well, on this gas the car didn't idle properly, tending to die at intersections unless I revved it up - a bit of a nuinsance, really. Running at speed it ran okay, with minor detonation if I goosed it in high gear.

When I got home the tank was almost empty. So I filled up with the trusty 94 octane Chevron gas. The idling problem went away, and the car ran noticeably better!

So, was the problem with the Seattle gas that it had ethanol in it? Or was it because it was only 92 octane vs. 94?

I've heard that older engines can have problems running ethanol blended fuels. But why?

Can my car be tuned to run better on 92 octane ethanol fuel? Do I need to run some sort of additive? I'f I want to take a longer trip, say to Portland, Oregon or beyond it would be nice to have the car running well without stalling.

Any ideas out there?

Frankie the Fink

Time for a tune up. My 250hp stock '63 runs perfectly on ethanol-laced fuel.....along with my dual quad '61 ... 93 octane in the '63 and 87 octane in the '61.

MikeM

The root cause of your problem was more than likely neither of the two conditions you mentioned.

Powershift

There are those that believe and those that don't.

My 327/350 HP will run on 93 octane ethanol-blended fuel, but prefers higher octane with no ethanol. That is a fact. If I took enough time I could probably get it to run equally with both fuels, but it is just easier for me to buy non-ethanol gas and add a bit of leaded octane.

There is no need for us to continue this debate…………it has been going on way too long already.

Larry

ifitgoesfast

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol
The chemical structure of water (H2O) and ethanol (C2H6O) is what allows ethanol's attraction and retention of water which ends up in your entire fuel system. It's not an opinion, it's chemistry. Diesel fuel, on the other hand, is on the opposite side with its immiscibility. Of course, those who say no big deal will argue the amount of water is insignificant, or cause no damage; so you have to decide between opinions and chemistry.

MikeM

Just guessing, your idle enrichment screws need to be richened a little. They may be too lean with straight gas.

There's no reason for your engine to have spark knock on 93 E 10 if your engine is built to stock OEM spec and the timing advance is stock configuration or even modified somewhat for a quicker curve.

For starters, check your idle enrichment settings.

There's always the possibility the Seattle tank had some water in it and/or the 10% ethanol limit was exceeded.

I run a similar engine on 89 octane E 10 with no issues along with a lot of others here.

PS. Yes, there are some that seem to have problems with running it but I don't know what the real problem is and the problems reported are worse in some parts of the country more than others. I have never been to Seattle or used Seattle gasoline. Indiana/Kentucky gas works fine for me. Florida gas sucks.

MOXIE62

I have read that the addition of ethanol can lower the boiling temperature of gas. The only non-ethanol fuel I can find here is the higher octane. But Ron at Dayton said do not use high octane gas. Don't remember why.

BlackbirdZ07

I just filled up my '66 Mustang 289 with non-ethanol fuel for the first time. It runs noticeably better… it starts easier and idles better, and it doesn't make the garage smell like gas after I drive it.

It's not my imagination, it's real. But, maybe little gnomes broke into my garage and tuned up my Mustang after I got that non-ethanol gas.

DansYellow66

I would vote for having had the misfortune to have fueled up with a bad load of gas - old, contaminated, water, regular from a premium tank, something.

mrtexas

There is no "boiling temperature" of gasoline. Gasoline is a mixture of hydrocarbons of varying boiling points. Gasoline has a boiling range of temperatures, typically starting around 120F on the low side and no more than 380F on the high side. It has all boiling materials in between. I say that but the lab equipment that determines the boiling point is not precise enough to show all the boiling points in between. It reports distillation temperature as a curve from the lowest to the highest vs % distilled in a standard batch still. The test is called D86 distillation. I haven't seed what alcohol does to the boiling range as refineries always make gasoline without alcohol in it. The alcohol is added at the local terminal to try to avoid picking up water in the pipelines. A little water will make the alcohol "fall out" to the bottom of the tank. I worked 31 years as a chemical engineer in an XOM refinery.

But you are correct in that ethanol boiling point is on the low end of the scale for gasoline. It would end up as more volume on the lower end of the scale.

Audiophobe

Do the gas treatments (I think there's one called Enzyme or something) advertised to help wiyh ethanol have any role?

MikeM

How does that work?

Cesar C1

Here in Brazil, all gasolines, premium or regular, has by law,
25% ethanol in it. There is no way to get rid of that. The only adition I put on my gas is an ethanol conditioner made by Lucas. I feel no problem in my 1962 Corvette with the 327 engine in the last two years, since I bought it. The carburator is the component that needs attention because the tendency of corrosion. I had no other problem in the fuel system.

Mcmurb

Calgary fan saw your BC tags and put water in the tank

KENS78SILVERANNIV

Drove through 19 States last Summer. Tried all types, octanes of fuel. Car ran beautifully on 92-94 octane straight gasoline.
Car ran absolutely terribly on anything with Ethanol in it.

Just going by my own experience... and I had over 40 fill-ups in a 3 week period. Performance of the car would change from one fill-up to the next... but universally ran poorly on any fuel containing any percentage of Ethanol.

I simply won't put it in my vehicle for fear of punching a hole in a piston.
Awful stuff.

MikeM

Audiophobe

Apparently (they claim anyway) it keeps the alcohol from breaking down into H2O. There are a few products out there. I usually add a couple of ounces to a fill up along with a Marvel Mystery Oil.

Easy Rhino

Unfortunately, as the OP can see, it is virtually impossible to have the pro vs anti ethanol discussion, as both sides of the argument are pretty entrenched and just as passionate. I have yet to see one of these discussions not devolve into name-calling. Weird how ethanol brings this out.

Frankie the Fink

Not a bit; ethanol is a close derivative of alcohol...and that's certainly caused enough name-calling

Having said that, I have 4 cars, a boat, and, two high performance jet skis and do not notice one whit of performance difference in any of these items with ethanol....

MikeM

Part of the problem is the "entrenched" uniformed blame whatever is ailing them on ethanol only. They do not consider the condition of the tune of their vehicle, they do not consider how they store their gasoline. They don't seem to understand that there are other additives in gasoline that can cause whatever problems they are having besides ethanol and those additives vary by geographical region and so do related drivability problems.

In summary, it's all the fault of ethanol I tell ya'! I don't know why you people can't get that in your head.



PS. Please review post #10