Having problems with clutch releasing
#21
Team Owner
Thread Starter
#23
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Just checked the AIM and the Z-Bar, it's installed correctly.
The bend in the clutch push rod is pointing down.
The bend in the clutch push rod is pointing down.
#24
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I keep telling myself I want a Go Pro camera, now would be a good time to have one. I'm a one man show and only be in one place at a time.
#25
Team Owner
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
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I've put more than one in wrong before I knew better but it never caused any problems.
Last edited by MikeM; 08-17-2015 at 11:15 AM.
#26
Race Director
The orientation of the pedal rod bend shouldn't make any difference in operation - but it will sometimes drag on the firewall opening if incorrectly installed.
If I understand your post correctly, with the clutch pedal depressed and transmission in gear, you are feeling the car wanting to creep forward. Are you getting any clutch chatter? I ask as it could be the clutch disc got bent when installing the transmission and is wobbling a little when the pedal is pushed in.
Also, not sure of the exact explanation for this, but on my Cobra replica I completed recently, when first started I had engagement starting real close to the floor even with minimal free play at the top. After I got several hundred miles on it I noticed the clutch was engaging a lot further off the floor. I think the clutch disc is a bit like a brank pad or shoe, it takes a few miles to bed it in and wear the fuzzes and high spots off the disc - that would create that dragging situation. So you might want to give it a few hundred miles before digging back into it. I don't go through enough clutches to know if this is a typical observation or maybe just something unique to my car I built.
If I understand your post correctly, with the clutch pedal depressed and transmission in gear, you are feeling the car wanting to creep forward. Are you getting any clutch chatter? I ask as it could be the clutch disc got bent when installing the transmission and is wobbling a little when the pedal is pushed in.
Also, not sure of the exact explanation for this, but on my Cobra replica I completed recently, when first started I had engagement starting real close to the floor even with minimal free play at the top. After I got several hundred miles on it I noticed the clutch was engaging a lot further off the floor. I think the clutch disc is a bit like a brank pad or shoe, it takes a few miles to bed it in and wear the fuzzes and high spots off the disc - that would create that dragging situation. So you might want to give it a few hundred miles before digging back into it. I don't go through enough clutches to know if this is a typical observation or maybe just something unique to my car I built.
#27
Team Owner
Thread Starter
That's the unkown here. He said it is wrong to start with. Could be upside down too.
Contrary to what is posted here, putting the throwout bearing in wrong will not cause this problem. The worst it will do is give you a false reading/feel on free play unless you know what to look for.
I've put more than one in wrong before I knew better but it never caused any problems.
Contrary to what is posted here, putting the throwout bearing in wrong will not cause this problem. The worst it will do is give you a false reading/feel on free play unless you know what to look for.
I've put more than one in wrong before I knew better but it never caused any problems.
I'm going to order the 155 deg (big block) Z-Arm tomorrow from LICS if for no other reason than to eliminate this as being the problem. I still don't feel that 20 deg would make a difference one way or the other.
Last edited by Mr D.; 08-10-2015 at 08:53 PM.
#28
Team Owner
Thread Starter
If I understand your post correctly, with the clutch pedal depressed and transmission in gear, you are feeling the car wanting to creep forward. Are you getting any clutch chatter? I ask as it could be the clutch disc got bent when installing the transmission and is wobbling a little when the pedal is pushed in.
I installed the transmission with the body off and this was uneventful so I don't think I bent anything.
So you might want to give it a few hundred miles before digging back into it. I don't go through enough clutches to know if this is a typical observation or maybe just something unique to my car I built
On a side note I did have the flywheel re-surfaced but don't know how much thickness was taken off.
#29
Team Owner
Thread Starter
For those asking if the Z-Arm is upside down, the answer is no.
Go look at picture #2 in post #1. The anti-rattle spring hole orientation is in the correct location.
The clutch return spring (running from the firewall to the Z-Arm) hole orientation is halfway down the arm.
The AIM clearly shows this.
Go look at picture #2 in post #1. The anti-rattle spring hole orientation is in the correct location.
The clutch return spring (running from the firewall to the Z-Arm) hole orientation is halfway down the arm.
The AIM clearly shows this.
#30
Team Owner
You sure the Pilot bearing is not the culprit?...thats why i asked in an earlier post...it could have seized on the input shaft..
I had a similar issue as your a year ago after rr to put in a new clutch....
I pulled the trans and put in a new pilot, problem solved...
I had a similar issue as your a year ago after rr to put in a new clutch....
I pulled the trans and put in a new pilot, problem solved...
#31
Team Owner
Thread Starter
At this point anything is possible I guess.
#32
Race Director
Short of a defective pressure plate, my 2 cents are that the ball stud is not long enough - and if the flywheel has been turned down quite a bit, that could aggravate the issue with a short ball stud.
#33
Melting Slicks
Theoretically, if you re-surfaced your flywheel you would need to extend the pivot to account for it. However, I had my OEM flywheel re-surfaced years ago and when I checked it recently it was thicker than the nominal figure these diagrams note. I just installed a new RAM 400 SBC flywheel for my 383 and it was thinner than the spec noted so i used an adjustable pivot. It works like a charm.
#34
One problem with a lot of the clutch parts (and others), is that they have no casting numbers or part numbers stamped into them. It's very easy to order a part and believe it to be correct when it is not. Examples are:
the Z-bar
clutch pedal pin bracket
clutch fork
Here are a few comparison pictures of those parts:
.
the Z-bar
clutch pedal pin bracket
clutch fork
Here are a few comparison pictures of those parts:
.
Last edited by buns; 08-17-2015 at 12:36 AM.
#35
Race Director
If geometry is working correctly in my mind, the BB Z-bar will move the adjusment block back on the upper rod and thus give you more threaded rod adjustment again to take additional free play out at top of the pedal. That might give you enough additional throw on the TO bearing to get a clean clutch release with the current ball. You want to try to get to minimal free play - just barely enough to keep the TO bearing off of the clutch fingers. But, I still wouldn't be surprised if you need to install an adjustable ball stud in the bell housing.
#36
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I have been rolling this marble around in my head all morning and as a lot of you have stated I think this is going to be a linkage geometry problem.
A combination of several factors working against me;
1) Resurfaced flywheel
2) Small Block Z-Arm
3) Small block clutch pedal pin bracket
4) Ball stud not long enough
I will admit the small block clutch pedal pin bracket is a new one for sure, had no idea these were different or if it really matters. I also didn’t do my due diligence in measuring all this out before I installed the transmission.
Off to LICS to spend some more money. If I have learned nothing else in this hobby it’s that if you throw enough money at a problem the problem will go away.
I want to thank everyone for all the inputs to this problem. I will keep this thread updated.
A combination of several factors working against me;
1) Resurfaced flywheel
2) Small Block Z-Arm
3) Small block clutch pedal pin bracket
4) Ball stud not long enough
I will admit the small block clutch pedal pin bracket is a new one for sure, had no idea these were different or if it really matters. I also didn’t do my due diligence in measuring all this out before I installed the transmission.
Off to LICS to spend some more money. If I have learned nothing else in this hobby it’s that if you throw enough money at a problem the problem will go away.
I want to thank everyone for all the inputs to this problem. I will keep this thread updated.
#37
Melting Slicks
If it's just an issue of external parts that can overcome the short ball stud (if it's a problem), fabricate a temporary solution. An extension on the clutch pedal rod using a coupler nut or fabricate a longer lower rod will give added action. If it works it may justify buying the Z-bar or other parts.
#38
Something else to consider is the way the pin bracket is attached to the clutch pedal. I don't know if this will affect the release of the clutch. Perhaps someone else has experience with this.
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#39
Race Director
From the description of the problem I'm pretty certain the linkage isn't set for the quick release position. And I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to move it to that in order to be able to get the clutch to release. It's just not a good thing to do for a street car.