SDVette

I ran these numbers for fun:

My dad paid about $4500 for my '61 in 1961. Good investment?

Well, it might be worth $50-$60K now (after I put a ton of time and money in it!).
Sounds good, but that $4500 invested in the stock market in 1961 would now be worth about $102K.

Of course, the stock market can have bad years.. sometimes many.. And if you need the money in the next 3-5 years, stocks are not a good place for it... Probably not Corvettes either!

biggd

After you realize you just lost 100K on your 401k you can take your car out for a stress relieving beat run.

phil2302

OK since you laid it out there lets reverse engineer FTFs net.
I say 2.5 to 3 mil
Enough for a niceah pasta rocketah for sure.

tuxnharley

Well, you can have it both ways - sort of. If you have a self directed IRA you can place your assets in multiple types of investments, including stocks, bonds, real estate, and collectibles. The collectibles can include art, coins, and yes, collector cars.

As always, of course "buy low - sell high" still applies. However it is a way to use and enjoy the assets in your IRA rather than just watching them on paper. Appraisal, insurance, and usage restrictions apply.

tuxnharley

Yup, say $100k in cars at 4% would equal $2.5M total.
That wouldn't come close to buying a 250 GTO or 250 TR or 275 GTB at today's prices, 'tho.

phil2302

Def not a 250 GTO but he could very easily afford the poor mans Ferrari, a Magnum PI 308 GTS ☺

dplotkin

True story boys....


When the market crashed in '07 or 08, I forget which, I was at the Hershey PA fall meet. The market fell to 8,000. I called my money manager and said "buy the S&P for $300,000." She was a little nervous and said "how about $200,000?" and I said OK.


Next day the market drops further and a very close friend (A CPA who runs wealthy family's affairs) calls me up and says "you are an irresponsible ****ole" Why would you do that? You should have gotten out altogether," which he had done with his personal portfolio." The wealthy family he works for stayed put.


Didn't sleep that night. The following week the market ebbs back slowly. Same guy calls and says "guess I'm the ****ole." I said no, but you made a decision in fear. I'm a real estate developer. We never, ever make decisions in fear." That doesn't mean I didn't have my share of loose stools. I did.


Fast forward to 2011. The $200,000 investment I made in a declining market, one declining because the heard was making its decisions in fear, had now produced a tidy $100,000 profit. I scooped it up & put it aside for a 60 Chrysler 300F I couldn't find. Instead I found myself at 2012 Mecum Kissimmee with two friends and Ron Bunnell, NCRS restorer from Fitchburg MA. Found a 396 car I liked, Ron approved and that's what brings me to this forum and your esteemed company.


Lesson: Never make decisions in fear. (Selling out of the market as Frankee did is different, at our age deciding to sideline capital for other uses, especially at our age, is AOK, + there's nothing wrong with taking a profit at the right time as my Corvette often reminds me).


Always run in the opposite direction of the heard, ALWAYS! (unless the building is on fire).
NEVER make a decision in fear or anger, NEVER!


Dan

rogerp

I'm betting $5 mil, based on what I've seen of FTF's two rides!!! That SWC is SWEEEEET....bet one those pasta gents down south have tried harder than $150g's to trade up

tuxnharley

at 4% of his TNW that would make his two Corvettes worth $200,000, or 100k each.............. They are very nice cars, but I don't think the market is that high. Of course, I'm sure they are worth more than that to him!

Workin On 59

Many good points have been made about the value of owning and driving these cars regardless of what their monetary value is or will be.

When I picked up my 65 in May of 2012, I sold shares of an International stock fund to buy the car. Had I kept the shares they would likely be slightly higher than the current value of the car, but it has been a lot of fun to drive and enjoy and as a bonus it should hold most of its value if kept in its present condition.

When things went to heck in Sept/October of 08 I saw the bid prices of cars adjust down. There was a restored 62 fuelie on Ebay within 70 miles of here that sold for $40K....a year or two before then I think it would have sold for close to $60.

One thing for sure most stocks are cheaper now than they were a week ago.....where they will be tomorrow or next week or next year is unknown. It has been 4 years since we have had a 10+% correction in the S&P 500 and it seems like many folks forgot that corrections happen.

Congratulations to FTF with his timing.

Doug

leif.anderson93

100%. My '67 will be worth whatever it's worth when I'm gone. I certainly didn't buy it expecting it to be an appreciating asset.

KENS78SILVERANNIV

The Stock Market has undergone at least 35 significant corrections since the crash of '29. In each case, without exception... the Market has bounced back to pre-correction levels within 10 months.

Relax. Dow Jones is batting .1000.

rfn026

I'm still waiting for the straight axles to bounce back.

I think the market has moved on. We're destined to the same fate as the muscle cars. The good part is that we don't have huge sums of money tied up in our cars.

One observation from Monterey is the "Rust is the new Patina"

Also, Mecum Auctions tried to play in the collector car market and got hammered. He had $21 million in high end cars that never sold. There was just no money in the Mecum auction. (The 1976 Porsche 930 was a charitable contribution - that makes it something totally different from the average sale."

What interesting is that B-J knows better than to play in the Monterey market. Monterey is not for the hobbyist.

Here's a full report on the Monterey auctions.

The big take away was the number of bad cars being put up for auction. I think the auction houses are running out of good cars and accepting anything that can be driven.

Richard Newton

SDVette

I agree with the sentiment.. and 10 months is a good average... but bear markets have lasted as long as 21 months:

biggd

I wonder if this recent slide will hurt or help the collector car market?

Easy Rhino

Not a day trader, but a minor timer, and I did "buy the dip" this week, hitting the best two day point gain in Dow history (but not % gain).

That said, cars as an investment is not generally for the vast range of cars on this forum.

I bought mine for recreation, concluding that it likely had some future value, but not as a tool to prevent having to eat cat food later in life. It's cheaper than a girlfriend for sure, and probably cheaper than many other avocations.

If I was depending on it for food, I would put it for sale today.

dplotkin

No one should buy a car as a substitute for a well balanced, well advised portfolio of stocks, bonds and/or real estate. Rolling stock, big block or not, is no investment at all. The super rich who buy big dollar cars do not look at their purchase as an investment, so why should you? Their ability to pay $500,000+ for a car is precisely owing to the good returns they've enjoyed from their investments in the aforementioned (or some company they own or operate). The cars are toys, recreation, that's all. Big mistake to think otherwise.


Yet the beauty of owning classic automobiles is that, properly done, they don't depreciate and they may appreciate, so they become non-depreciating assets (unlike your Camry). This combined with the fact that you can have a real good time driving one and hanging with your likeminded buds talking about them makes it a wonderful hobby.


But its a hobby, the cars are not investments at all. If you've been trying to convince yourself they are otherwise, sell your car & wait for the next market dive (probably next month) and buy in.


Dan

tuxnharley

Except that for the ultra mega rich the exclusive classic cars can turn out to be a very profitable investment as well.

Watch the first two minutes of this video clip for some interesting insight into how that can happen.



http://www.naiopsv.org/awards/mozart/part3.html

biggd

That's true but when people lose money, even on paper, it makes them think twice before making that kind of non essential purchase. I know I do. I was thinking of buying another car but after this week I'm in a "wait and see" mode.

rsinor

Guys, I've never gotten rich off a Corvette, but then I've never had a Corvette go to zero either, can’t say that about a stock. I'll invest my money in what I know best and if my family breaks even when I'm gone, I've had one hell of a ride.