1961 Corvette Starter/Flywheel Problems ???
12-01-2015, 09:19 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
1961 Corvette Starter/Flywheel Problems ???
Hello all. I need a little advise before I start pulling the transmission and flywheel back out of this 1961 Corvette I'm restoring. I have a 283/315hp engine and a T-10 4-speed. I did not use the original flywheel because it was not in the best shape and I had a very nice one that had be resurfaced and had a new ring gear on it that was for a 1965 Corvette. I chose to use that flywheel and a diaphragm type clutch on the '61. I went to crank this evening the engine and the starter solenoid engaged; you could hear the starter drive being pushed outward by the heavy "clack" sound and the starter turned freely. Problem is it didn't even try to engage the ring gear on the flywheel.
Did I goof up by using the SB 1965 Corvette flywheel on this 1961 Corvette. Am I going to have any issues with the diaphragm style clutch. Thanks for any help you can offer.
Did I goof up by using the SB 1965 Corvette flywheel on this 1961 Corvette. Am I going to have any issues with the diaphragm style clutch. Thanks for any help you can offer.
12-01-2015, 11:20 PM
#3
Safety Car
Sounds like you used a 153 tooth flywheel,and have a staggered bolt starter for a 168 tooth flywheel,if that's the case there is no problem with the clutch cover,they bolt up to both flywheels. If you are not doing a "correct" resto. the simple fix is getting the right,inline bolt starter,stock or aftermarket. Many inline mini starters,have a dual bolt pattern,an will work with both flywheels.
Could happen to anyone
Could happen to anyone
12-02-2015, 12:02 AM
#4
Pro
You're right, thought the Op had a 65,but that's the year of the flywheel not the car. Thanks for the correction,when i read too quickly I'm often wrong!
12-02-2015, 12:10 AM
#5
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OK, one more time.
There are only TWO, repeat, TWO sizes of Chevy flywheels/flexplates: 14in diameter/168 teeth, 12 3/4in/153 teeth.
You MUST, repeat, MUST use the correct corrosponding starter AND bell housing for each.
ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, repeat, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Corvettes used the larger, 168 teeth flywheel------------PERIOD! Also, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Corvettes had the starter bolted to the bell housing. PERIOD!
In 1963-65, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Corvettes used the SMALLER 153 teeth flywheel (INCLUDING the 65 396 engines).
If a smaller 153 treeth flywheel is used with the 55-62 style bell housing, a 63-later style starter WITH A STRAIGHT ACROSS BOLT PATTERN, WHICH BOLTS TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BLOCK, IS THE ONLY STARTER WHICH WILL MATE TO THE SMALLER 153 TEETH FLYWHEEL!!! BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, the nose of the starter WILL NOT fit the starter bulge of the 55-62 syle bell housing, UNLESS the lower bolt hole of the housing is cut off. FOR 60-62 BELL HOUSINGS, THIS WOULD BE A MAJOR SACRILEGE, because 60-62 bell housings are VERY HIGH VALUE housings!!!!!!!!!!!!
In 63, when the flywheel went from 168 teeth to the smaller 153 teeth version, the bell housing also changed. The 63-later housings were the full enclosure version. The small 153 teeth flywheels were used with the small full enclosure housing, and then in 66, the BB engines (427) got the bigger 168 teeth flywheel and a larger, full enclosure housing.
With the 153 teeth flywheel, a starter with a straight across bolt pattern MUST be used.
With the larger 168 teeth flywheel, a starter with a CAST IRON nose and staggered bolt pattern MUST be use. I emphasize CAST IRON nose because a starter with an alum nose and staggered bolt pattern WILL NOT FIT INTO THE STARTER BULGE OF THE BIG HOUSING (alum starter noses are fatter than cast iron noses).
I need to copy and save the above information because it comes up all the time. Next time, I'm going to let one of you guys explain this.
There are only TWO, repeat, TWO sizes of Chevy flywheels/flexplates: 14in diameter/168 teeth, 12 3/4in/153 teeth.
You MUST, repeat, MUST use the correct corrosponding starter AND bell housing for each.
ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, repeat, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Corvettes used the larger, 168 teeth flywheel------------PERIOD! Also, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Corvettes had the starter bolted to the bell housing. PERIOD!
In 1963-65, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Corvettes used the SMALLER 153 teeth flywheel (INCLUDING the 65 396 engines).
If a smaller 153 treeth flywheel is used with the 55-62 style bell housing, a 63-later style starter WITH A STRAIGHT ACROSS BOLT PATTERN, WHICH BOLTS TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BLOCK, IS THE ONLY STARTER WHICH WILL MATE TO THE SMALLER 153 TEETH FLYWHEEL!!! BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, the nose of the starter WILL NOT fit the starter bulge of the 55-62 syle bell housing, UNLESS the lower bolt hole of the housing is cut off. FOR 60-62 BELL HOUSINGS, THIS WOULD BE A MAJOR SACRILEGE, because 60-62 bell housings are VERY HIGH VALUE housings!!!!!!!!!!!!
In 63, when the flywheel went from 168 teeth to the smaller 153 teeth version, the bell housing also changed. The 63-later housings were the full enclosure version. The small 153 teeth flywheels were used with the small full enclosure housing, and then in 66, the BB engines (427) got the bigger 168 teeth flywheel and a larger, full enclosure housing.
With the 153 teeth flywheel, a starter with a straight across bolt pattern MUST be used.
With the larger 168 teeth flywheel, a starter with a CAST IRON nose and staggered bolt pattern MUST be use. I emphasize CAST IRON nose because a starter with an alum nose and staggered bolt pattern WILL NOT FIT INTO THE STARTER BULGE OF THE BIG HOUSING (alum starter noses are fatter than cast iron noses).
I need to copy and save the above information because it comes up all the time. Next time, I'm going to let one of you guys explain this.
Last edited by DZAUTO; 12-02-2015 at 12:11 AM.
12-02-2015, 12:40 AM
#6
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Well I guess you can be a wrench for 30 years and schtuff can still sneak by you... it looks like the original flywheel is going to the machine shop to be resurfaced and the ring gear flipped or replaced if needed. Also looks like the tranny and bell housing will be coming off in the morning as well since I did a bone-headed mistake. I thought I checked the flywheel diameter and that is why I made this post but it looks like that one got by me. I am so used to working on Mid-Year cars and these solid axle cars are just not the same by a long shot. I'm restoring a completely correct car so I'll not be making any modifications to the bell housing. I also went through a lot of trouble to have the car's original starter restored so it's going to stay correct. Good news is the body is still off the chassis. I was just getting things ready to run the engine in the chassis and fix problems before the body goes down and so my plan has paid off in this. Thanks for the help and the post by DZAUTO reminded me of what I already knew but let get by me! Best regards, Rick
Last edited by cadiman1949; 12-02-2015 at 12:54 AM.
12-02-2015, 10:27 AM
#7
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Excellent information, DZ and it needs to be in the sticky section, IMO. I did NOT know much of that info, and am very appreciative!
Jeff
Jeff
12-02-2015, 11:05 AM
#8
OK, one more time.
There are only TWO, repeat, TWO sizes of Chevy flywheels/flexplates: 14in diameter/168 teeth, 12 3/4in/153 teeth.
You MUST, repeat, MUST use the correct corrosponding starter AND bell housing for each.
ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, repeat, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Corvettes used the larger, 168 teeth flywheel------------PERIOD! Also, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Corvettes had the starter bolted to the bell housing. PERIOD!
In 1963-65, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Corvettes used the SMALLER 153 teeth flywheel (INCLUDING the 65 396 engines).
If a smaller 153 treeth flywheel is used with the 55-62 style bell housing, a 63-later style starter WITH A STRAIGHT ACROSS BOLT PATTERN, WHICH BOLTS TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BLOCK, IS THE ONLY STARTER WHICH WILL MATE TO THE SMALLER 153 TEETH FLYWHEEL!!! BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, the nose of the starter WILL NOT fit the starter bulge of the 55-62 syle bell housing, UNLESS the lower bolt hole of the housing is cut off. FOR 60-62 BELL HOUSINGS, THIS WOULD BE A MAJOR SACRILEGE, because 60-62 bell housings are VERY HIGH VALUE housings!!!!!!!!!!!!
In 63, when the flywheel went from 168 teeth to the smaller 153 teeth version, the bell housing also changed. The 63-later housings were the full enclosure version. The small 153 teeth flywheels were used with the small full enclosure housing, and then in 66, the BB engines (427) got the bigger 168 teeth flywheel and a larger, full enclosure housing.
With the 153 teeth flywheel, a starter with a straight across bolt pattern MUST be used.
With the larger 168 teeth flywheel, a starter with a CAST IRON nose and staggered bolt pattern MUST be use. I emphasize CAST IRON nose because a starter with an alum nose and staggered bolt pattern WILL NOT FIT INTO THE STARTER BULGE OF THE BIG HOUSING (alum starter noses are fatter than cast iron noses).
I need to copy and save the above information because it comes up all the time. Next time, I'm going to let one of you guys explain this.
There are only TWO, repeat, TWO sizes of Chevy flywheels/flexplates: 14in diameter/168 teeth, 12 3/4in/153 teeth.
You MUST, repeat, MUST use the correct corrosponding starter AND bell housing for each.
ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, repeat, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Corvettes used the larger, 168 teeth flywheel------------PERIOD! Also, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Corvettes had the starter bolted to the bell housing. PERIOD!
In 1963-65, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Corvettes used the SMALLER 153 teeth flywheel (INCLUDING the 65 396 engines).
If a smaller 153 treeth flywheel is used with the 55-62 style bell housing, a 63-later style starter WITH A STRAIGHT ACROSS BOLT PATTERN, WHICH BOLTS TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BLOCK, IS THE ONLY STARTER WHICH WILL MATE TO THE SMALLER 153 TEETH FLYWHEEL!!! BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, the nose of the starter WILL NOT fit the starter bulge of the 55-62 syle bell housing, UNLESS the lower bolt hole of the housing is cut off. FOR 60-62 BELL HOUSINGS, THIS WOULD BE A MAJOR SACRILEGE, because 60-62 bell housings are VERY HIGH VALUE housings!!!!!!!!!!!!
In 63, when the flywheel went from 168 teeth to the smaller 153 teeth version, the bell housing also changed. The 63-later housings were the full enclosure version. The small 153 teeth flywheels were used with the small full enclosure housing, and then in 66, the BB engines (427) got the bigger 168 teeth flywheel and a larger, full enclosure housing.
With the 153 teeth flywheel, a starter with a straight across bolt pattern MUST be used.
With the larger 168 teeth flywheel, a starter with a CAST IRON nose and staggered bolt pattern MUST be use. I emphasize CAST IRON nose because a starter with an alum nose and staggered bolt pattern WILL NOT FIT INTO THE STARTER BULGE OF THE BIG HOUSING (alum starter noses are fatter than cast iron noses).
I need to copy and save the above information because it comes up all the time. Next time, I'm going to let one of you guys explain this.
12-02-2015, 03:11 PM
#9
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Now, with all of the above said, let's go one step further.
ANY, ANY, ANY 55-later Chevy V8 engine can use ANY, ANY, ANY large, 168 teeth flywheel. The ONLY requirement is that the correct size bell housing and starter be mated to it.
As I pointed out above, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Vette engines used ONLY the 168 teeth flywheel-----------------BUT, it was only drilled/tapped for a 10in clutch (which is now replaced with with 10 1/2in clutches). The later 168 teeth flywheels (UP THROUGH 1985) have a bolt pattern for the larger 11in clutch. These later 168 teeth flywheels with the 11in clutch bolt pattern are a pure, 100%, total bolt-on swap for the earlier 168 teeth flywheels with a bolt pattern for a 10in clutch.
Well, of course, this means a larger bell housing, such as the 55-62 housing, OR, the 66-later full enclosure housings (444 or 621 version) must be used with the larger 168 teerth flywheel. With the 55-62 style bell housings, EITHER bell housing mounted, OR, block mounted starters can be used-------------------PROVIDED THE BLOCK HAS THE NECESSARY HOLES FOR MOUNTING A STAGGERED BOLT PATTERN STARTER (the early 265-283 blocks DID NOT have the holes for a block mounted starter).
Also, for 63-later Corvettes which have the 153 teeth flywheel and small housing, they can easily be converted to the larger 168 teeth flywheel/444-621 style housing/staggered bolt pattern starter. Is there a justifiable reason for replacing a 153 teeth flywheel to the larger 168 teeth flywheel??? Functionally, no. BUUUUUUUUUUT, if you do much work on your car then you know if for whatever reason it should be necessary to drop the pan on an engine with a 153 teeth flywheel it is FIRST NECESSARY TO REMOVE THE STARTER TO PERMIT ACCESS TO THE REAR BOLTS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PAN! WHAT A PAIN!!!! Not so with a a 168 teeth flywheel because the starter is far enough away from the pan that the rear bolts are accessible. The first time I encountered this on a Chevy engine with a 153 teeth flywheel/housing, I was immediately convinced to convert them to the big flywheel. I like to keep everything as simple as possible.
ANY, ANY, ANY 55-later Chevy V8 engine can use ANY, ANY, ANY large, 168 teeth flywheel. The ONLY requirement is that the correct size bell housing and starter be mated to it.
As I pointed out above, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Vette engines used ONLY the 168 teeth flywheel-----------------BUT, it was only drilled/tapped for a 10in clutch (which is now replaced with with 10 1/2in clutches). The later 168 teeth flywheels (UP THROUGH 1985) have a bolt pattern for the larger 11in clutch. These later 168 teeth flywheels with the 11in clutch bolt pattern are a pure, 100%, total bolt-on swap for the earlier 168 teeth flywheels with a bolt pattern for a 10in clutch.
Well, of course, this means a larger bell housing, such as the 55-62 housing, OR, the 66-later full enclosure housings (444 or 621 version) must be used with the larger 168 teerth flywheel. With the 55-62 style bell housings, EITHER bell housing mounted, OR, block mounted starters can be used-------------------PROVIDED THE BLOCK HAS THE NECESSARY HOLES FOR MOUNTING A STAGGERED BOLT PATTERN STARTER (the early 265-283 blocks DID NOT have the holes for a block mounted starter).
Also, for 63-later Corvettes which have the 153 teeth flywheel and small housing, they can easily be converted to the larger 168 teeth flywheel/444-621 style housing/staggered bolt pattern starter. Is there a justifiable reason for replacing a 153 teeth flywheel to the larger 168 teeth flywheel??? Functionally, no. BUUUUUUUUUUT, if you do much work on your car then you know if for whatever reason it should be necessary to drop the pan on an engine with a 153 teeth flywheel it is FIRST NECESSARY TO REMOVE THE STARTER TO PERMIT ACCESS TO THE REAR BOLTS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PAN! WHAT A PAIN!!!! Not so with a a 168 teeth flywheel because the starter is far enough away from the pan that the rear bolts are accessible. The first time I encountered this on a Chevy engine with a 153 teeth flywheel/housing, I was immediately convinced to convert them to the big flywheel. I like to keep everything as simple as possible.
12-02-2015, 06:28 PM
#10
Drifting
OK, one more time.
There are only TWO, repeat, TWO sizes of Chevy flywheels/flexplates: 14in diameter/168 teeth, 12 3/4in/153 teeth.
You MUST, repeat, MUST use the correct corrosponding starter AND bell housing for each.
ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, repeat, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Corvettes used the larger, 168 teeth flywheel------------PERIOD! Also, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Corvettes had the starter bolted to the bell housing. PERIOD!
In 1963-65, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Corvettes used the SMALLER 153 teeth flywheel (INCLUDING the 65 396 engines).
If a smaller 153 treeth flywheel is used with the 55-62 style bell housing, a 63-later style starter WITH A STRAIGHT ACROSS BOLT PATTERN, WHICH BOLTS TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BLOCK, IS THE ONLY STARTER WHICH WILL MATE TO THE SMALLER 153 TEETH FLYWHEEL!!! BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, the nose of the starter WILL NOT fit the starter bulge of the 55-62 syle bell housing, UNLESS the lower bolt hole of the housing is cut off. FOR 60-62 BELL HOUSINGS, THIS WOULD BE A MAJOR SACRILEGE, because 60-62 bell housings are VERY HIGH VALUE housings!!!!!!!!!!!!
In 63, when the flywheel went from 168 teeth to the smaller 153 teeth version, the bell housing also changed. The 63-later housings were the full enclosure version. The small 153 teeth flywheels were used with the small full enclosure housing, and then in 66, the BB engines (427) got the bigger 168 teeth flywheel and a larger, full enclosure housing.
With the 153 teeth flywheel, a starter with a straight across bolt pattern MUST be used.
With the larger 168 teeth flywheel, a starter with a CAST IRON nose and staggered bolt pattern MUST be use. I emphasize CAST IRON nose because a starter with an alum nose and staggered bolt pattern WILL NOT FIT INTO THE STARTER BULGE OF THE BIG HOUSING (alum starter noses are fatter than cast iron noses).
I need to copy and save the above information because it comes up all the time. Next time, I'm going to let one of you guys explain this.
There are only TWO, repeat, TWO sizes of Chevy flywheels/flexplates: 14in diameter/168 teeth, 12 3/4in/153 teeth.
You MUST, repeat, MUST use the correct corrosponding starter AND bell housing for each.
ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, repeat, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Corvettes used the larger, 168 teeth flywheel------------PERIOD! Also, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL 55-62 Corvettes had the starter bolted to the bell housing. PERIOD!
In 1963-65, ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Corvettes used the SMALLER 153 teeth flywheel (INCLUDING the 65 396 engines).
If a smaller 153 treeth flywheel is used with the 55-62 style bell housing, a 63-later style starter WITH A STRAIGHT ACROSS BOLT PATTERN, WHICH BOLTS TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BLOCK, IS THE ONLY STARTER WHICH WILL MATE TO THE SMALLER 153 TEETH FLYWHEEL!!! BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, the nose of the starter WILL NOT fit the starter bulge of the 55-62 syle bell housing, UNLESS the lower bolt hole of the housing is cut off. FOR 60-62 BELL HOUSINGS, THIS WOULD BE A MAJOR SACRILEGE, because 60-62 bell housings are VERY HIGH VALUE housings!!!!!!!!!!!!
In 63, when the flywheel went from 168 teeth to the smaller 153 teeth version, the bell housing also changed. The 63-later housings were the full enclosure version. The small 153 teeth flywheels were used with the small full enclosure housing, and then in 66, the BB engines (427) got the bigger 168 teeth flywheel and a larger, full enclosure housing.
With the 153 teeth flywheel, a starter with a straight across bolt pattern MUST be used.
With the larger 168 teeth flywheel, a starter with a CAST IRON nose and staggered bolt pattern MUST be use. I emphasize CAST IRON nose because a starter with an alum nose and staggered bolt pattern WILL NOT FIT INTO THE STARTER BULGE OF THE BIG HOUSING (alum starter noses are fatter than cast iron noses).
I need to copy and save the above information because it comes up all the time. Next time, I'm going to let one of you guys explain this.
http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/...psvcj2oaun.jpg
12-03-2015, 02:20 AM
#11
Intermediate
Thread Starter
With the correct flywheel installed today I was able to start the engine in the chassis. The FI unit worked perfectly and all is well with the world again. This will be a lesson I will not soon forget. Thanks DZ for all the info! Kindest regards, Rick