Stainless Steel Engine Bolts
01-02-2016, 12:30 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Stainless Steel Engine Bolts
What are your thoughts on using all stainless hardware on this '66 427 engine build? I pulled the motor and tranny for a total re-gasket and re-seal. Upon pulling the rear main cap for an oil pump and seal I found the main bearing in bad shape. Ended up finding damage on all crank and rod bearings so I stripped the motor down and sent the block and crank off to the machine shop. As my dad suggested the block has been replaced for whatever reason. The current block is period correct, but has no deck numbers. Machine shop confirmed the block has never been deck machined.
The plan is to make the engine and compartment look very close to original using mostly correct type parts like valve covers, etc. I like the look of stainless steel hardware. This 390 hp engine already has the 425 hp carb and camshaft verified by the numbers. I have sandblasted and repainted all of the nasty parts like intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, brackets, fan, etc. New air cleaner cover and decal will go on and the engine will look brand new.
The plan is to make the engine and compartment look very close to original using mostly correct type parts like valve covers, etc. I like the look of stainless steel hardware. This 390 hp engine already has the 425 hp carb and camshaft verified by the numbers. I have sandblasted and repainted all of the nasty parts like intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, brackets, fan, etc. New air cleaner cover and decal will go on and the engine will look brand new.
01-02-2016, 01:10 PM
#2
Team Owner
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As long as you're talking external bolts and not internal, I don't see a problem.
Don't know about BB but SB intake and exhaust manifold bolts are an odd length to standard. Too long intake bolts can run into the pushrods and too long other places can result in the bolt bottoming in the threads and not pull the manifold tight.
Don't know about BB but SB intake and exhaust manifold bolts are an odd length to standard. Too long intake bolts can run into the pushrods and too long other places can result in the bolt bottoming in the threads and not pull the manifold tight.
01-02-2016, 01:37 PM
#3
Safety Car
Most stainless bolts you buy, are equivalent to grade 2, not very strong. Totally Stainless sells a wide range of stainless fasteners of all sizes and strengths, including a bolt that exceeds Grade 8. That being said, I would use black ARP bolts inside the engine, and reserve the polished stainless bolts to where you can see them. The high strength Stainless bolts are very expensive, and they add up in a hurry. I have exceeded $1000 in stainless fasteners on one build where I used all high strength stainless on the suspension bolts.
I save the money and polish the heads myself, as the polishing adds up as well.
The one caveat on stainless fasteners, YOU MUST USE ANTI SEIZE!
Failure to follow this rule will cause you more heartache than you can imagine. Stainless steel threads tend to gall and the anti seize will prevent this. I was dry fitting a rear suspension one night and was too lazy to get up and get the anti seize out of the cabinet. Five minutes later, I went to remove the 1/2" high-strength bolt, and it backed out about 4 turns and then galled solid! Finally after using a 3 foot breaker bar and a pipe cheater, I was able to snap that 200,000 PSI bolt off to remove it! Never fail to use the anti seize, even if you are going to take it apart again!
Totally Stainless has a very good PDF catalog on their web site.
I buy their button head and indented hex washer head fasteners by the hundreds, I use them on almost everything.
Regards, John McGraw
I save the money and polish the heads myself, as the polishing adds up as well.
The one caveat on stainless fasteners, YOU MUST USE ANTI SEIZE!
Failure to follow this rule will cause you more heartache than you can imagine. Stainless steel threads tend to gall and the anti seize will prevent this. I was dry fitting a rear suspension one night and was too lazy to get up and get the anti seize out of the cabinet. Five minutes later, I went to remove the 1/2" high-strength bolt, and it backed out about 4 turns and then galled solid! Finally after using a 3 foot breaker bar and a pipe cheater, I was able to snap that 200,000 PSI bolt off to remove it! Never fail to use the anti seize, even if you are going to take it apart again!
Totally Stainless has a very good PDF catalog on their web site.
I buy their button head and indented hex washer head fasteners by the hundreds, I use them on almost everything.
Regards, John McGraw
01-02-2016, 01:58 PM
#4
Race Director
Most stainless bolts you buy, are equivalent to grade 2, not very strong. Totally Stainless sells a wide range of stainless fasteners of all sizes and strengths, including a bolt that exceeds Grade 8. That being said, I would use black ARP bolts inside the engine, and reserve the polished stainless bolts to where you can see them. The high strength Stainless bolts are very expensive, and they add up in a hurry. I have exceeded $1000 in stainless fasteners on one build where I used all high strength stainless on the suspension bolts.
I save the money and polish the heads myself, as the polishing adds up as well.
The one caveat on stainless fasteners, YOU MUST USE ANTI SEIZE!
Failure to follow this rule will cause you more heartache than you can imagine. Stainless steel threads tend to gall and the anti seize will prevent this. I was dry fitting a rear suspension one night and was too lazy to get up and get the anti seize out of the cabinet. Five minutes later, I went to remove the 1/2" high-strength bolt, and it backed out about 4 turns and then galled solid! Finally after using a 3 foot breaker bar and a pipe cheater, I was able to snap that 200,000 PSI bolt off to remove it! Never fail to use the anti seize, even if you are going to take it apart again!
Totally Stainless has a very good PDF catalog on their web site.
I buy their button head and indented hex washer head fasteners by the hundreds, I use them on almost everything.
Regards, John McGraw
I save the money and polish the heads myself, as the polishing adds up as well.
The one caveat on stainless fasteners, YOU MUST USE ANTI SEIZE!
Failure to follow this rule will cause you more heartache than you can imagine. Stainless steel threads tend to gall and the anti seize will prevent this. I was dry fitting a rear suspension one night and was too lazy to get up and get the anti seize out of the cabinet. Five minutes later, I went to remove the 1/2" high-strength bolt, and it backed out about 4 turns and then galled solid! Finally after using a 3 foot breaker bar and a pipe cheater, I was able to snap that 200,000 PSI bolt off to remove it! Never fail to use the anti seize, even if you are going to take it apart again!
Totally Stainless has a very good PDF catalog on their web site.
I buy their button head and indented hex washer head fasteners by the hundreds, I use them on almost everything.
Regards, John McGraw
This is VERY good advice! Don't buy the SS bolts just because they look pretty, with out making sure you are getting the proper grade/strength!
01-02-2016, 02:09 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
I'm familiar with stainless bolts causing galling when used with indifferent metal. I have access to all the free stainless hardware I need. Just need to check on the strength of the bolts.
01-02-2016, 10:39 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
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If you have not done the required torque/ tension testing to insure that you get the same tension in the attachment that was designed into that joint, you cannot be sure of what you have done. Its very risky.
Last edited by Vettrocious; 01-02-2016 at 10:52 PM.
01-03-2016, 07:18 AM
#10
Safety Car
There are very few reasons to use stainless bolts. There are a lot of reasons to NOT use them.
Remember that a bolt is a really nothing more than a springs that's holding 2 parts together.
Here's an article that I wrote a couple of years ago on all of this.
Richard Newton
Remember that a bolt is a really nothing more than a springs that's holding 2 parts together.
Here's an article that I wrote a couple of years ago on all of this.
Richard Newton
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01-03-2016, 08:02 AM
#11
Team Owner
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Stainless, no matter how strong, is not a good idea as a replacement for any critical attachment on any Corvette unless you know exactly what you are doing. Unless you are a fastening expert, don't even try it. When you switch to stainless bolts, the measured tightening torque will no longer be a comparable measure of the tension created in the attachment, as friction in stainless bolts is dramatically different
I think the statement about a bolt being a spring is very accurate. I don't think it applies when that spring force is pulling against a gasket sandwich.
Here is another link that will help explain this subject.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Stainless-Bo...1623345/g.html
01-03-2016, 08:06 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
There are very few reasons to use stainless bolts. There are a lot of reasons to NOT use them.
Remember that a bolt is a really nothing more than a springs that's holding 2 parts together.
Here's an article that I wrote a couple of years ago on all of this.
Richard Newton
Remember that a bolt is a really nothing more than a springs that's holding 2 parts together.
Here's an article that I wrote a couple of years ago on all of this.
Richard Newton
GUSTO
01-03-2016, 09:44 AM
#14
There are very few reasons to use stainless bolts. There are a lot of reasons to NOT use them.
Remember that a bolt is a really nothing more than a springs that's holding 2 parts together.
Here's an article that I wrote a couple of years ago on all of this.
Richard Newton
Remember that a bolt is a really nothing more than a springs that's holding 2 parts together.
Here's an article that I wrote a couple of years ago on all of this.
Richard Newton
My guess is you are an engineer or metallurgist?
01-03-2016, 09:46 AM
#15
What are your thoughts on using all stainless hardware on this '66 427 engine build? I pulled the motor and tranny for a total re-gasket and re-seal. Upon pulling the rear main cap for an oil pump and seal I found the main bearing in bad shape. Ended up finding damage on all crank and rod bearings so I stripped the motor down and sent the block and crank off to the machine shop. As my dad suggested the block has been replaced for whatever reason. The current block is period correct, but has no deck numbers. Machine shop confirmed the block has never been deck machined.
The plan is to make the engine and compartment look very close to original using mostly correct type parts like valve covers, etc. I like the look of stainless steel hardware. This 390 hp engine already has the 425 hp carb and camshaft verified by the numbers. I have sandblasted and repainted all of the nasty parts like intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, brackets, fan, etc. New air cleaner cover and decal will go on and the engine will look brand new.
The plan is to make the engine and compartment look very close to original using mostly correct type parts like valve covers, etc. I like the look of stainless steel hardware. This 390 hp engine already has the 425 hp carb and camshaft verified by the numbers. I have sandblasted and repainted all of the nasty parts like intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, brackets, fan, etc. New air cleaner cover and decal will go on and the engine will look brand new.
Thanks
01-03-2016, 11:02 AM
#16
Drifting
Thread Starter
This engine has the stock cast iron 390 hp intake #3886948 and oval port heads. Looks like 2.02 intake valves. Numbers off the cam suggest 425 hp and same with the carburetor. I believe the carb is a 780cfm dual feed w/vacuum secondaries. Block has TRW pop up pistons. I didn't put any of this on and apparently this was a popular upgrade back in the day. Gonna keep it this way because it runs great.
Last edited by ILBMF; 01-03-2016 at 11:12 AM.
01-03-2016, 11:31 AM
#18
Race Director
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I use (good quality) stainless fasteners anywhere and everywhere I can---------------------------EXCEPT where high strength bolts/nuts are required, such as main cap bolts, head bolts, rod bolts/nuts, etc.
Bell housing bolts, intake and exhaust manifold bolts, body mount bolts, ESPECIALLY water pump bolts (but I use studs), etc are all stainless. When we pulled the body off of the 56 back in 1973, several of the body mount bolts/nuts were seized from rust. The end intake manifold bolts (next tot he water passages) were badly rusted as well as exhaust manifold bolts. The exhaust manifold studs were rusted so bad that they twisted into, the remainder of the studs had to be drilled out and the threads tapped. All those kinds of fasteners are now stainless.
The one thing I DO NOT do is use a stainless nut on a stainless bolt. Thread galling is very common when removing a stainless nut from a stainless bolt and then the bolt has to be broken to get it removed. Use zinc coated nuts on stainless bolts or vice versa.
I have NEVER seen a problem with stainless bolts screwed into cast iron or aluminum.
Also, when installing an alum intake manifold, I use THICK, small diameter stainless washers. I buy them by 100 from Paragon. These washers apply a wider, more even pressure to the alum and prevent the corners of the head of a bolt/nut from chewing up the alum. If regular, thin washers are used, they become cupped.
This ain't NCRS correct, but I AM NOT an NCRS correct person. I prefer to go with what's practical functional.
Bell housing bolts, intake and exhaust manifold bolts, body mount bolts, ESPECIALLY water pump bolts (but I use studs), etc are all stainless. When we pulled the body off of the 56 back in 1973, several of the body mount bolts/nuts were seized from rust. The end intake manifold bolts (next tot he water passages) were badly rusted as well as exhaust manifold bolts. The exhaust manifold studs were rusted so bad that they twisted into, the remainder of the studs had to be drilled out and the threads tapped. All those kinds of fasteners are now stainless.
The one thing I DO NOT do is use a stainless nut on a stainless bolt. Thread galling is very common when removing a stainless nut from a stainless bolt and then the bolt has to be broken to get it removed. Use zinc coated nuts on stainless bolts or vice versa.
I have NEVER seen a problem with stainless bolts screwed into cast iron or aluminum.
Also, when installing an alum intake manifold, I use THICK, small diameter stainless washers. I buy them by 100 from Paragon. These washers apply a wider, more even pressure to the alum and prevent the corners of the head of a bolt/nut from chewing up the alum. If regular, thin washers are used, they become cupped.
This ain't NCRS correct, but I AM NOT an NCRS correct person. I prefer to go with what's practical functional.
Last edited by DZAUTO; 01-03-2016 at 11:34 AM.
01-03-2016, 11:41 AM
#19
Le Mans Master
As a matter of fact more than a few of the bolts I've gotten from Totally Stainless in the past few years came in ARP packaging.
One other thing some may not be aware of is that the folks at totally stainless can and will cut or machine a Stainless Steel bolt or stud to order if you request it. The order will take longer than bolts they have in stock however.
Good luck... GUSTO
One other thing some may not be aware of is that the folks at totally stainless can and will cut or machine a Stainless Steel bolt or stud to order if you request it. The order will take longer than bolts they have in stock however.
Good luck... GUSTO
01-03-2016, 12:36 PM
#20
Drifting
Thread Starter
I can't justify ARP type pricing unless it's on internals or Harmonic balancer bolt. I'm going to check on the quality of the stainless I have access to. It is from an industrial facility and needs to be corrosion resistant, but I'm going to grab a bolt out of my garage and do a search on it's markings.