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Hey guys... I searched threads but didn't see anything that helped me.
I have Al's soft top replacement video... watched it more times than Star Wars...
The video and most posts here at the forum seem to focus on just the top install.
That was my initial plan, til I got the old top off last fall. Before I could replace the top, my frame needed work... a lot of work.
Anyway, I am about 95% done with it (should be finished tomorrow) but, then what?
Before I started, I "adjusted" the frame and all like the threads say to do and the video does... but then I took my frame off (at least the rear and header bows). ALL the weather stripping is off.... so my adjustments before don't mean anything.
What is the process for getting it all back together.
Put on weather stripping?
Mount on Car and re-adjust?
What weather stripping can go on before the soft top gets put on?
Do you have an AIM? If so, consult the following sheets in the UPC 1-asm section: F5, F14, F21.
Assuming your new tack strips are installed and the frame is detailed to your satisfaction -- Check these AIM pages & find that the distance from the (rolled up) window top to the top rail AND window aft edge to the side rail is nominally 0.46". Note that it's set with a shim in the absence of weather strip pieces, which are also nominally 0.46. Also, find that the header-to-windshield reveal trim is shimmed at 0.25" to simulate a compressed header weather strip.
Dimension trim lumber (wood) in nominal 1/2" size is very close to 0.46" actual. I found a wooden yardstick for the 0.25" dim on the header. Using a couple of small wood screws backed with a flat washers, I attached the window shims through the holes meant for the molded weatherstrip pieces. On the header, some double-sticky tape will hold the yardstick pieces simulating the front wx strip.
Here's a couple of pics. In this way, adjusting your freshly detailed frame, without top fabric can get you in the ball park while you struggle with the rest of the task.
I just finished the top installation on my 65 following the Al Knoch video. Couple of tips: 1. Make sure you adjust the frame on the car per Al's directions in the video with the two window rubber strips in place on both sides. If you don't, it's possible you may not be able to close the doors when the new top is up and locked because the vertical weather strips may interfere. 2. I'd recommend you finish installing the small rubber weather strip ends on the rear bow after you've installed the weather strip on the bow. Otherwise they are real b*tch to install after the top is installed. I did not see Al do the final install of those pieces on my video - He just said he'd get to them later. I was afraid to install my own top, but it turned out great. Good luck with yours.
I really wish AL or somebody would do an update DVD on a Soft Top install. Considering how many Tops AL must install, I wish they'd do one with a REALLY BAD FRAME so they would show all the steps involved. I hate the, "The header bow on this one is really nice so we don't have to XYZ". The guy with the crappy header bow needs to see all the steps... there is no video for him.
Also, as you said, there are a few "magic moments" where stuff is not shown, but magically appears or happens.
I will have to look again, but I don't think AL shows any glue going between the top fabric and the metal "side of the window" flaps. Its hard to describe but I think there is glue on the metal frame at the vertical rearward side of the vertical window opening.
ahhh heck
The rear side rail as per above picture...
Anyway, I think the fabric is glued to the frame on the side rail, then the weather stripping piece screws in on top... right?
All in all though, the Video is pretty good... and I know I have watched it 12 times already!
Revfan,
I have done many of these tops. Install all the w/s except the header and rear latch bow then adjust to the windows. Hang a towel over your windshield and lay a pad on the deck. If you need help please PM me. I have helped many forum members install tops. We can work via pics.
Since its not covered in the video... how does it attach?
The one in the picture screws to the front of the rear bow on the passenger side. The screws are sometimes broken off in the bow and need to be drilled out. The round part of that piece slips into the weatherstripping on the rear bow.
Last edited by Ken Sungela; 01-30-2016 at 06:30 PM.
Think of it as a total adjustment. The main concern is to adjust the fit of the top to the side windows. The header bow will fall into place. The pins slide into the holes on the header. That will put it into place for the most part. There should be a hole where the front sheet metal screw held the w/s on. Put a awl through the hole to line up the header with the side rail. Then tighten the screws. That will put it back to the position it was before you took it apart.
If it is a new header then check for alignment marks left from the old header. If that doesn't work then you will have to align it by sliding it and adjusting the gap at the upper rear corner of the side window.
The one in the picture screws to the front of the rear bow on the passenger side. The screws are sometimes broken off in the bow and need to be drilled out. The round part of that piece slips into the weatherstripping on the rear bow.
Those are the parts I was talking about, If you wait until the rear bow is on and the top is assembled to install them, the screws will be really tough to get to.
In the AK video, they talk about aligning the frame. All they mention is that the top of the frame being parallel to the window.
Since I had to take my frame apart to repair it... I got it back together but it has made the "frame alignment a little tougher than what it appears in the top replacement video. Granted, its a top replacement video, not a frame resto video, but still, my frustration is real.
Here is the situation.
There seems to be 3 things involved in the geometry of the frame alignment.
1 The up and down placement of the top frame attachment bolts
2 Forward/Reward placement of the frame with those same bolts
3 The in/out adjustment of the header bow
I have been monkeying with JUST these three things for the last two hours and can't seem to get it right.
I've got the weather strip metal back/frame parallel to the top of the window, I have the frame adjustment bolts set to allow the frame the MOST forward setting (that is toward the windshield) as possible and I have about an 1/8" gap between the side window gap edge and the weather stripping.
I have tried various positions of the header bow, the previous placement is being judged by the screw hole for the weather striping as I had to recondition the bow and lost all physical markings of its former position.
It seems that I have to push the frame further down onto the header bow, shorting the length thus pulling the side rail forward when I clamp the header bow down...
Assuming the shorter side of the weather stripping goes toward the outside...
AM I doing something wrong?
Also, its new weather stripping and seems to want to crush in with the window instead of popping out in place (if I described what happens correctly) You can see the effect at the bottom of the side rail on my photo. Any tricks to get it to act properly.
How high should the top side rail (see photo in earlier post) be from the top of the glass. As I adjust the frame to meet the glass and still be parallel... the bottom weather stripping (marked in a white Z in my photo, gets moved so low that I am afraid it will rub paint off when the door is opened or closed.
Any suggestions???? I know I gotta be doing something wrong. I thought I would have the top pads on by now but instead, am still caught up in the frame alignment.
Your door panels are still on? Unless the window travel & alignment were/are currently set to fit the car's hardtop, I'd start by taking door panels off to gain access to all of the window glass adjustment points & stops. The vent window assembly can also be adjusted in a couple axis in relation to the windshield A pillar, thus impacting window glass travel & tracking.
Don't be discouraged by a 2-hour session. It will likely take much longer chasing all 3 axis, especially once window glass & vent window frame parameters are introduced. Lots of trial and error & very time consuming.
Install the weather strip and lift the frame up as far as it will go. Roll up the side windows. Loosen the top attaching bolts and let the top down and adjust it to the windows. As for the fore and aft movement of the header. That will adjust the gap at the rear top edge of the window. For a start align the hole for the sheet metal screw in the front of the side w/s. Use an awl to align it. You would do this first before installing the front w/s If you need to adjust it loosen the front side rail screws and slide it as needed. You may have to drill a new hole for the front sheet metal screw.
I got through most of what you suggested via trial and error. My gap issue though seems to be at the bottom rearward part of the window. I can get the "height" and the top rear corner correct, but as in my above picture, the "gap" comes in toward the bottom of the window along the side rail. I didn't take a picture of the top part, but in the above picture, everything else is aligned as it should be.
I got through most of what you suggested via trial and error. My gap issue though seems to be at the bottom rearward part of the window. I can get the "height" and the top rear corner correct, but as in my above picture, the "gap" comes in toward the bottom of the window along the side rail. I didn't take a picture of the top part, but in the above picture, everything else is aligned as it should be.
For the bottom gap loosen the two (ea side) bolts that attach the top frame and then you should be able to slide the bottom rail forward. It might not seem like it but there is an adjustment for just about everything on the top.
Last edited by woodsdesign; 02-03-2016 at 07:16 AM.
Finally got the frame as good as its gonna get as far as aligning. I think I was being super critical.
Next hurdle.
You watch the AK video, and everything goes so smoothly. He has a tip for measring the forward edge of the rear bow to the side rail and putting that marking on the top so you know where to start inserting in on the rear bow (once you take it off and put it on the bench).
AK gets over to his bench, starts tucking the top in on one side where his mark is, then goes over to the other side and... whattaya know, its lined up perfectly with his mark.
Now I know he has done hundreds if not THOUSANDS of tops... but common, really?
I marked mine using his tip, take the rear bow off go over to the bench, get the first side started about 10" or so, go to work on the other end and....
Its at LEAST two inches shy of the other mark. I am pulling and stretching, putting it in, taking it out... pulling stretching.... I am afraid I might ruin this thing... but I can't get it CLOSE to the mark, let alone on it.
How come these how-to videos NEVER seem to have the trouble I have with these things!!!!
Any ideas on getting the top into the groove (pre-weatherstip) without ruining it?
Here is how I do it. Start on one side and tuck the fabric under the groove aligning the mark as he indicates. Tuck the fabric about 8" up the bow. Now, insert a piece of the old w/s in the grove to lock the fabric in place. I do not use WD-40 for this 8" because I don't want the fabric to slide and move the mark. ( you will have to press very hard on the plastic filler to get it to engage in the groove) Now, go to the other side and do the same thing except use the new w/s. You will have to run the top material under the bow to get enough slack. When you have it tucked and locked 8" on each side then go to the middle and pull me material over the bow. Slide a screw driver under the canvas and CAREFULLY pull it over. The hardest part is the second corner to be pulled over. Using a head gun to warm the canvas is helpful. When it is all pulled over tuck it under and continue installing the w/s. Use WD-40 sparingly to help with pushing it in. When you get to the temporary w/s pull it up about 2" at a time while replacing it with the new one.
Tip: I made a tool to push in the plastic filler. File a flat blade screw driver and make a "U" groove horizontally along the edge to fit the filler. Using a regular screw driver to do this is risky. As it can easily slip and damage the w/s or worse.
This is an important step as it is the base for the rest of the top. There is nothing worse then seeing a top that is "short" on the sides by the windows. Be prepared for more challenges in this project. The video always makes it look easier then it is.
Last edited by woodsdesign; 02-07-2016 at 09:17 AM.
01-26-2016, 03:33 PM
C2 Soft Top Replacement... AFTER frame restore
