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Thought you guys might be interested in the FItech vs Holley 950 dyno results. The Fitech does quite well which I was told by a drag racer who beta tested the FiTech that this unit would hold its own against a carb.
Just so nobody skims through that reply and misses the last one of the thread, like I did...They had a lean cylinder, number 3, and he states what he thought had happened...
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In our case, I think we have concluded that we had a slight vacuum leak during the dyno pulls, likely from the NPT plug on the intake just over the # 3 cylinder (you can see it in the first picture in post # 17). After the test, we noted this plug was not fully tight. It wasn't exactly loose, but it did take a half turn or so to bring it snug, so it might have contributed to the lean cylinder. It's suspicious that it is right over # 3.
Just got my header back from my header guy after a couple of weeks. Had a bung welded in - plus a small leak at the header flange needed a small tack weld. Plus my header guy is real busy because there is no one else around that I've found that can build headers here. So he's usually a month behind and by late spring usually about 2 months behind.
Tomorrow I will finish the install - all I have left to do is put in the header, sidepipe, spark plugs (new) and hook up the hoses for the coolant.
Today's post I'm just going to show what I did for a vent line from the Command Center to the gas tank.
As mentioned in an earlier thread I ran a 5/16" vent line. Removed the filler neck from the gas tank - I removed it from the top - and had a nipple welded in. What I did was to purchase a short piece of of 5/16" steel brake line w/flare about 6" long. Cut the line 1 1/4" from flare - drilled a 5/16" hole in filler neck and had a friend weld it in for me.
Then all that was left was to re-install the filler neck and connect the 5/16" line that had previously been plumbed in - and cut vent line to the proper length.
Only 1/4" of the nipple showing plus a slight downward angle of about 10*.
Tomorrow with luck I may have it running before I work at the firestation at 5:00 PM. STAY TUNED.
Just got my header back from my header guy after a couple of weeks. Had a bung welded in - plus a small leak at the header flange needed a small tack weld. Plus my header guy is real busy because there is no one else around that I've found that can build headers here. So he's usually a month behind and by late spring usually about 2 months behind.
Tomorrow I will finish the install - all I have left to do is put in the header, sidepipe, spark plugs (new) and hook up the hoses for the coolant.
Today's post I'm just going to show what I did for a vent line from the Command Center to the gas tank.
As mentioned in an earlier thread I ran a 5/16" vent line. Removed the filler neck from the gas tank - I removed it from the top - and had a nipple welded in. What I did was to purchase a short piece of of 5/16" steel brake line w/flare about 6" long. Cut the line 1 1/4" from flare - drilled a 5/16" hole in filler neck and had a friend weld it in for me.
Then all that was left was to re-install the filler neck and connect the 5/16" line that had previously been plumbed in - and cut vent line to the proper length.
Only 1/4" of the nipple showing plus a slight downward angle of about 10*.
Tomorrow with luck I may have it running before I work at the firestation at 5:00 PM. STAY TUNED.
65-StingRay
Wayne
Good luck. That vent should work just fine.
I had a few instances of fuel starvation the last couple times out with my car...thought, wrongly, that I had already removed the "sock" from the fuel inlet tube inside the tank....could barely blow through it, so I think my fuel delivery issue is gone now.
this is phil. I am new to the site. I just ordered a fitech 600 system for my 64 vette roadster. it has an older tbi unit made by retrotek which is a lot of trouble and full of software bugs. my question is how are you going about making and installing the vent tube in the filler tank for the gas tank? do you have the tank out of the car? it did not look like it in the pics. or, are you going to drop the tank down? I have a return line plumbed into my tank that I can hook up to. but, I don't know if the vented gas cap with 4 xtra holes in it will suffice for a vent. retrotek suggested this and it seems to work although I have very few miles on the car. I would appreciate your input on how to install the 5/16 vent line in the filler neck. one other note... I would have ordered one of these units sooner. but, ken Farrell who designed boss efi and retrotek is the designer/engineer/developer of the fitech units. so, I was a little hesitant. I didn't want another boat anchor. but, all of the feedback is good. and, the tech responses from fitech are very professional. they seem to know what they are doing and how to make it work.
thanks for your time,
phil
rel3rd,
that video is going to have to wait for a while.
Let me re-cap today's events:
Started work on the '65 at 10:00 AM. Had everything installed by about 2:00 PM. This included header,side-exhaust - on the pass. side, O2 sensor, starter, new spark plugs, hoses, overflow tank, anti-freeze.
Went methodically slow and checked everything twice - all looks good.
So now I'm ready to 'prime' the Command Center - orange wire not hooked up for priming. Turn the key for about 7 seconds to fill sump wait 30 secs. to cool. Next attempt after about 4 seconds of cranking I'm seeing fuel on top of the sump but I can't tell where it's coming from.
Dry off top of sump - I don't have a clamp on the vent line and I think it's leaking out of the vent tube - put a clamp on and re-try. More fuel coming out the top. Tighten the vent clamp a little more and try again - same result.
I'm doing this alone and can't see where the leak is coming from but I've tightened all the connections around the fuel sump and there are no leaks from these.
There's only two places left where it can be leaking either from the low pressure fuel gauge which just partly covers the fuel float - just like a carb float (but on top of the sump) or from the float.
My wife came home and I got her to crank the engine over. Sure enough when I'm looking right at the float as she cranks the engine fuel is coming out of it.
The float supposedly operates just like a carb float - loosen the set screw and turn the nut below to raise or lower the fuel level. I thought maybe the screw was loose in the float so I checked it. It was tight to my surprise.
The instructions say the sump should be mounted vertical and mine is 3* off vertical - that can't be it.
Now I'm thinking I have to lower the float if it's leaking so bad.
Loosen the set screw and try and get a 5/8 wrench on the nut but it's in a small recess and part of it is covered by the low press. gauge. A very difficult if not impossible task. I tried for a couple of hours but to no avail - I could not turn the nut in either direction.
I've got a set of small wrenches but do not have the 5/8" size. Tomorrow I will try to buy one and do it all over again.
Don't think it will make any difference if I do because there is something that is not right about the sumps fuel float. When I crank the engine the leak squirts out of the 4 o'clock position when facing it.
Won't be able to get a hold of FiTech till Monday for some trouble shooting advice.
Let me start by saying it's been an adventure in perseverance.
After calling FiTech Monday morning and talking to Cody - I received some input about how to go about taking care of this leaking float issue.
Removed Control Center from car. First was the leaking gaskets on the set screw and lock nut. To start you have to remove the low pressure fuel gauge then to the set screw and lock nut. Changed those and put everything back together and back in. Tried to prime again - gas still pouring out of float.
Another phone call to FiTech - got a little more info on how to take the sump apart and put it back together.
I thought there might be a problem with the float not sealing properly. What led me to this was when I had the sump on the bench and tried to turn the lock nut to see if the float was functioning - of course your not suppose to do this. Found that the setting for the float was all the way clockwise - there was no more adjustment at this end but lots the other way. Put it back together and tried again - failed again. Still leaking like crazy from float adjustment.
Called my local speed shop for help. Gene said he had another needle and seat (size 110) so I brought my sump and went to see if anything could be done.
Once there we took out the needle and seat, cleaned up the threads a little, lubed the new o-ring in the needle and put it in. When the needle went in you could here it click into place unlike the original which did not want to seat properly. We still had the problem of being at the end of adjustment with the float level but so be it.
Went home and installed everything again. Tried for a prime and this time Success.
No more leaks. Here's a few pics of some of the details:
Shot of O2 sensor. It has a nice fit.
Another pic of O2 sensor
Vent line routing along frame rail and over top cross member. I used 'Mag Daddy' magnetic clamps and they work great.
Have start-up video but I cannot upload - will try to figure it out and post later if I can.
The first start was rough - my car hasn't been started since early November. It sounded like it needed CPR.
Wayne, thanks for the update. Interestingly enough I had to remove and ship my Command Center back to Fitech 2 days ago. The car became all but undriveable...and definitely untrustworthy for any drives, as it has left me stranded 3 times now.
Acts as if it has ran out of fuel, then every time has fired right up after sitting overnight.
The 3rd time happened when I was close enough to my shop to actually try to diagnose what was happening. Command Center was empty, so naturally Fitech said my Holley 110gph mechanical pump wasn't working right....
Fwiw, it is working great with carb back on yesterday and today, so that theory us wrong. ..
Then they thought check ball for vent was sticking (which closes off the vent), and said some early command centers did have vent issues, including their own autoX car. I used a small wire, at THEIR suggestion, to force the check ball to stay down and that caused liquid gas, a LOT, and under high pressure, to come out of the vent fitting. My vent hose was totally filled with liquid gas, which makes that hose no longer a vent, since in effect, it is closed off....
I called them roughly 4 times, each time being questioned/doubted as to my opinions and findings. I am not a hobbyist mechanic, I have been, and still am, a professional with 35 years in the field. Most of which had me building a decent performing toy of some sort....heck look back at my old posts here. Made my TPI Verte do what 100% of the people here said I couldn't make it do..
Anyway, there's nothing more annoying than to KNOW you have a problem with a product, and to be forced to do the song and dance before they believe you....
My Fuel was actually boiling out of the vent on one 2 mile test drive. They blamed the underhood temps. It was 60 degrees and car was just below 180....what will happen when it's 95 degrees and I have the AC on???
After sending it off, and sleeping ob the whole matter, I actually have requested a refund on the Command Center, and IF and I did say IF, I ever reinstall the EFI-4 throttle body, it won't be unless I have invested in a fuel system with a return setup and an in tank pump.
Sorry about your luck with the Command Center. I believe they do have some issues with it.
Thanks for your update because now I will be watching for more problems. I had the whole sump apart - every piece - so now I have a good idea of what's going on inside. It makes everything easier when one understands how it all works.
There are two more short videos that I could not upload and by this time there was some learning going on and the idle was smoothing out.
Last night I went into the garage turned the key, let it prime for a couple of seconds and she started right up instantly and idled at 900 rpms.
So although it has not left the garage yet some learning is taking place.
Wayne, it'll definitely start easier and idle better and better as it learns. If possible, I'd let it idle until fully warmed up a few times. That seemed to help mine a bunch.
Wayne, it'll definitely start easier and idle better and better as it learns. If possible, I'd let it idle until fully warmed up a few times. That seemed to help mine a bunch.
Planning on doing just that over the next couple of days. If the weather here continues to be above normal I could have it on the road in a few days.
wayne, I am new to the site. thanks for the informative post on the fitech unit. I have a 64 roadster with a 421 small block. I ordered a 600 unit that is due in a few days. I am using an aeromotive frame mount fuel pump/filters and braided line to the throttle body. I also have a return line running to my fuel tank. I was especially interested in the kind of response you go from fitech when your unit had a problem. if customer service is not good, I am not going to go thru with the deal. I am in the southeast far away from any local fitech help. I know your issue centered around the command center. but, I don't have the expertise to go into a command center unit like you did and fix it. I would want to know that fitech customer service would say return it and we will exchange without any issues and get you up and running. with a new product, this kind of service would be critical to survival in my opinion.i have called twice and asked to talk with ken Farrell. this is his unit. he designed it. also, he has done work for holley and quick fuel. he also invented/designe the boss efi and retrotek systems that were later bought by professional products. from what I understand, they are in trouble. but, that is speculation. I wanted to hear from the boss. I will call again and ask for tech support and ask a few more pertinent questions. i look forward to seeing more info as you have time to post. I will also post my adventure if it goes thru.
phil
candipogo
wayne, I am new to the site. thanks for the informative post on the fitech unit. I have a 64 roadster with a 421 small block. I ordered a 600 unit that is due in a few days. I am using an aeromotive frame mount fuel pump/filters and braided line to the throttle body. I also have a return line running to my fuel tank. I was especially interested in the kind of response you go from fitech when your unit had a problem. if customer service is not good, I am not going to go thru with the deal. I am in the southeast far away from any local fitech help. I know your issue centered around the command center. but, I don't have the expertise to go into a command center unit like you did and fix it. I would want to know that fitech customer service would say return it and we will exchange without any issues and get you up and running. with a new product, this kind of service would be critical to survival in my opinion.i have called twice and asked to talk with ken Farrell. this is his unit. he designed it. also, he has done work for holley and quick fuel. he also invented/designe the boss efi and retrotek systems that were later bought by professional products. from what I understand, they are in trouble. but, that is speculation. I wanted to hear from the boss. I will call again and ask for tech support and ask a few more pertinent questions. i look forward to seeing more info as you have time to post. I will also post my adventure if it goes thru.
phil
candipogo
Phil, assuming you insinuate FiTech is "in trouble", I'd find that near impossible to believe...Summit and Jegs both recently started carrying their products, and their newest offering will be a joint venture with Edelbrock. Since none of the big name sellers, or the actual company themselves, can keep their products on the shelf, it's highly unlikely, they are "in trouble", as you speculate...
My Fuel Command Center had basically the same issues as Wayne's, and once they understood exactly what was happening, due to me recording it and sending them video, they immediately asked me to return it for repair or replacement.
They also sent me a very down to earth, honest, email regarding the whole situation...
Here's just a small part of it:
P.S. I am really embarrassed at the tech response issues we have had in the past. We are a small mom and pop business that literally struck gold the size of Manhattan with our products so we have had some growing pains. We value your feedback and we founded our company on good customer service.
Thanks a bunch for staying faithful with our company and we are committed to make your car run better and more reliable.
thank you for the prompt reply. your explanation of the way they dealt with your issue is good news. I really did not insinuate anything. I made comments on the trail that has led to ken farrells new company. it is again great to hear that they are prepared to take care of their customers. I look forward to getting mine. and, I hope I can learn something from joining this site.
phil
I took my car out on our horrendous roads today for a short maiden voyage with the new efi. Only went about 5 miles in the neighborhood.
In general - it starts good - gets to idle at 900 rpms pretty close.
It didn't really run rough when I drove it but there are a couple of issues. One is, as I let off the gas pedal the revs fall to about 1400 rpms then drop down slowly to 900 - kind of like an auto trans. Fitech told me how to go about adjusting this parameter so tomorrow I will try and tackle this.
Other than that twice it backfired on me around 3500 rpms when I let off the gas - my car never did this with a carb since a I put this engine in it 8 yrs ago. Again it could be a learning thing or an adjustment thing.
The last thing that happened today was it stalled 2 times on me. Once as I pulled into the garage after a 2 mile cruise. It would not start back up right away.
The 2nd time was about 5 blocks from home as I turned the corner the revs dropped below 500 and would not pick up with gas peddle feathering - stall.
Tried to re-start a few times but it would not. Pulled the air cleaner off and waited about 7 minutes with the hood open to let it cool off. Then with a turn of the key she fired right up.
Positives so far:
It starts good when it's cold - does not stall warming up.
When driving normally the gas pedal is nice and responsive.
Seems to run smoother and quieter.
2nd and 3rd gear torque is adequate from slow speeds - no jerking and smooth response.
Feather the clutch out at idle with no gas ans she coasts away better than with a carb.
And yes there is no big smell of gasoline as with my carb.
One more aspect I may have to tune is the cold start and warm up.
I'll be back at it tomorrow - hope things just keep getting better.
The last thing that happened today was it stalled 2 times on me. Once as I pulled into the garage after a 2 mile cruise. It would not start back up right away.
The 2nd time was about 5 blocks from home as I turned the corner the revs dropped below 500 and would not pick up with gas peddle feathering - stall. Tried to re-start a few times but it would not. Pulled the air cleaner off and waited about 7 minutes with the hood open to let it cool off. Then with a turn of the key she fired right up.
I'll be back at it tomorrow - hope things just keep getting better.
65-StingRay
Wayne
Wayne, I hope you aren't having the same issue I had, but it sure sounds like it. They told me the "early" Fuel Command Centers had some issues. Not sure when you bought yours, but I got mine in mid December from Jeg's. No idea how long they had it, or when they got it in stock...
Mine started with the same thing...stalling like it was out of gas, and basically, it was...Command Center was not staying consistently full of fuel.
02-25-2016, 11:46 AM
