FiTech TBI Install in '65
03-16-2016, 01:45 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I have had many carb issues that plagued me as well.
I'm just gonna plug on through.
65-StingRay
Wayne
03-16-2016, 03:31 PM
#43
Race Director
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: Inverness FL
Posts: 17,891
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St. Jude Donor '07
I too enjoy a challenge (just ask Frankie and Plasticman...); but the sad part is, unless you're getting a 'deal'; you're doing their R&D for nada...
Bill
Last edited by wmf62; 03-16-2016 at 04:01 PM.
03-16-2016, 04:37 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
The FiTech is still HALF (or less) the money of any big name Throttle Body EFI, and does more than almost every single other option. I haven't read or heard of anyone having an issue with the actual unit.
I know it's very easy to find people having problems with the actual software and TB units regarding the FAST brand, and one of my good friends has been having nothing but problems with his MSD Atomic, which is what I had planned to get until I saw this setup.
Holley is coming out with a $1000 Throttle Body system to compete with FiTech's. Not due out until end of May, I think it is...and I'd bet anyone here, it's going to be an offshore manufactured setup (just like FiTech), with no more testing than this brand got.
03-16-2016, 05:16 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Bill, sorry to say but it's true. However, what this unit costs, comparably to the big names - now live in Canada and do the money conversions - this unit is hard to beat price wise.
Anyway - just got back from another 20 mile drive. The air temp here is about 40* F.
Before I left I made an adjustment to something called the Decel IAC Open setting in the EFI tuning on the handheld. Bryce at Fitech recommended a -30 setting mine was at +2. All I had to do was go to that window on the controller and hold the toggle switch to the left until I got the desired setting. After playing with a few different settings I tuned it to -53. Settings go from -90 to +90. Made a big positive difference in the way the revs drop after you release the gas peddle. And I think this is the reason my car stalled yesterday those two times.
The city is dusty and the roads are covered in small ball bearings from winter sanding.
Drove easy in the beginning watching the gauges on the handheld. Some parameters I like to pay attention to are AFR, Batt. voltage in real time,cylinder temp, air temp, water temp - compared to my gauge in dash, RPMs, spark advance, vacuum, Inj. duty and a host of others.
As I drove more I felt the efi learned more because the engine was running very smooth - no hiccups at low speed or feathering clutch. I thought it eased off the line better with no gas applied better than my carb did.
A couple of hard acceleration runs 1st to 2nd and it pulled strong about the same as before with carb but again it felt smoother and quieter.
Next I pulled it hard to about 4500 a couple of times in 1st and had a small pop out the exhaust when I shifted fast into second. But from 2nd to 3rd did not have the backfire.
She ran good the rest of the drive.
When I got back home called Fitech again and talked to them about the backfire. It wasn't as loud today as yesterday and was at a higher rpm today. The tech seems to think a little more learning has to take place as well as an adjustment to the accel/decel stage on the handheld when removing foot from gas peddle and shifting.
Other than that I had no issues. It started every time after I turned it off. Started real well when I first started it up today.
More testing.
65-StingRay
Wayne
Anyway - just got back from another 20 mile drive. The air temp here is about 40* F.
Before I left I made an adjustment to something called the Decel IAC Open setting in the EFI tuning on the handheld. Bryce at Fitech recommended a -30 setting mine was at +2. All I had to do was go to that window on the controller and hold the toggle switch to the left until I got the desired setting. After playing with a few different settings I tuned it to -53. Settings go from -90 to +90. Made a big positive difference in the way the revs drop after you release the gas peddle. And I think this is the reason my car stalled yesterday those two times.
The city is dusty and the roads are covered in small ball bearings from winter sanding.
Drove easy in the beginning watching the gauges on the handheld. Some parameters I like to pay attention to are AFR, Batt. voltage in real time,cylinder temp, air temp, water temp - compared to my gauge in dash, RPMs, spark advance, vacuum, Inj. duty and a host of others.
As I drove more I felt the efi learned more because the engine was running very smooth - no hiccups at low speed or feathering clutch. I thought it eased off the line better with no gas applied better than my carb did.
A couple of hard acceleration runs 1st to 2nd and it pulled strong about the same as before with carb but again it felt smoother and quieter.
Next I pulled it hard to about 4500 a couple of times in 1st and had a small pop out the exhaust when I shifted fast into second. But from 2nd to 3rd did not have the backfire.
She ran good the rest of the drive.
When I got back home called Fitech again and talked to them about the backfire. It wasn't as loud today as yesterday and was at a higher rpm today. The tech seems to think a little more learning has to take place as well as an adjustment to the accel/decel stage on the handheld when removing foot from gas peddle and shifting.
Other than that I had no issues. It started every time after I turned it off. Started real well when I first started it up today.
More testing.
65-StingRay
Wayne
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03-16-2016, 05:36 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
Bill, sorry to say but it's true. However, what this unit costs, comparably to the big names - now live in Canada and do the money conversions - this unit is hard to beat price wise.
Anyway - just got back from another 20 mile drive. The air temp here is about 40* F.
Before I left I made an adjustment to something called the Decel IAC Open setting in the EFI tuning on the handheld. Bryce at Fitech recommended a -30 setting mine was at +2. All I had to do was go to that window on the controller and hold the toggle switch to the left until I got the desired setting. After playing with a few different settings I tuned it to -53. Settings go from -90 to +90. Made a big positive difference in the way the revs drop after you release the gas peddle. And I think this is the reason my car stalled yesterday those two times.
The city is dusty and the roads are covered in small ball bearings from winter sanding.
Drove easy in the beginning watching the gauges on the handheld. Some parameters I like to pay attention to are AFR, Batt. voltage in real time,cylinder temp, air temp, water temp - compared to my gauge in dash, RPMs, spark advance, vacuum, Inj. duty and a host of others.
As I drove more I felt the efi learned more because the engine was running very smooth - no hiccups at low speed or feathering clutch. I thought it eased off the line better with no gas applied better than my carb did.
A couple of hard acceleration runs 1st to 2nd and it pulled strong about the same as before with carb but again it felt smoother and quieter.
Next I pulled it hard to about 4500 a couple of times in 1st and had a small pop out the exhaust when I shifted fast into second. But from 2nd to 3rd did not have the backfire.
She ran good the rest of the drive.
When I got back home called Fitech again and talked to them about the backfire. It wasn't as loud today as yesterday and was at a higher rpm today. The tech seems to think a little more learning has to take place as well as an adjustment to the accel/decel stage on the handheld when removing foot from gas peddle and shifting.
Other than that I had no issues. It started every time after I turned it off. Started real well when I first started it up today.
More testing.
65-StingRay
Wayne
Anyway - just got back from another 20 mile drive. The air temp here is about 40* F.
Before I left I made an adjustment to something called the Decel IAC Open setting in the EFI tuning on the handheld. Bryce at Fitech recommended a -30 setting mine was at +2. All I had to do was go to that window on the controller and hold the toggle switch to the left until I got the desired setting. After playing with a few different settings I tuned it to -53. Settings go from -90 to +90. Made a big positive difference in the way the revs drop after you release the gas peddle. And I think this is the reason my car stalled yesterday those two times.
The city is dusty and the roads are covered in small ball bearings from winter sanding.
Drove easy in the beginning watching the gauges on the handheld. Some parameters I like to pay attention to are AFR, Batt. voltage in real time,cylinder temp, air temp, water temp - compared to my gauge in dash, RPMs, spark advance, vacuum, Inj. duty and a host of others.
As I drove more I felt the efi learned more because the engine was running very smooth - no hiccups at low speed or feathering clutch. I thought it eased off the line better with no gas applied better than my carb did.
A couple of hard acceleration runs 1st to 2nd and it pulled strong about the same as before with carb but again it felt smoother and quieter.
Next I pulled it hard to about 4500 a couple of times in 1st and had a small pop out the exhaust when I shifted fast into second. But from 2nd to 3rd did not have the backfire.
She ran good the rest of the drive.
When I got back home called Fitech again and talked to them about the backfire. It wasn't as loud today as yesterday and was at a higher rpm today. The tech seems to think a little more learning has to take place as well as an adjustment to the accel/decel stage on the handheld when removing foot from gas peddle and shifting.
Other than that I had no issues. It started every time after I turned it off. Started real well when I first started it up today.
More testing.
65-StingRay
Wayne
03-16-2016, 06:51 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
rel3rd,
thanks for the boost of confidence as to how it will run later. I like the way you think.
Competition from within the industry should start seeing the prices drop in the future.
65-StingRay
Wayne
thanks for the boost of confidence as to how it will run later. I like the way you think.
Competition from within the industry should start seeing the prices drop in the future.
65-StingRay
Wayne
03-16-2016, 07:38 PM
#48
Race Director
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: Inverness FL
Posts: 17,891
Received 727 Likes
on
621 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07
Bill, sorry to say but it's true. However, what this unit costs, comparably to the big names - now live in Canada and do the money conversions - this unit is hard to beat price wise.
Anyway - just got back from another 20 mile drive. The air temp here is about 40* F.
Before I left I made an adjustment to something called the Decel IAC Open setting in the EFI tuning on the handheld. Bryce at Fitech recommended a -30 setting mine was at +2. All I had to do was go to that window on the controller and hold the toggle switch to the left until I got the desired setting. After playing with a few different settings I tuned it to -53. Settings go from -90 to +90. Made a big positive difference in the way the revs drop after you release the gas peddle. And I think this is the reason my car stalled yesterday those two times.
The city is dusty and the roads are covered in small ball bearings from winter sanding.
Drove easy in the beginning watching the gauges on the handheld. Some parameters I like to pay attention to are AFR, Batt. voltage in real time,cylinder temp, air temp, water temp - compared to my gauge in dash, RPMs, spark advance, vacuum, Inj. duty and a host of others.
As I drove more I felt the efi learned more because the engine was running very smooth - no hiccups at low speed or feathering clutch. I thought it eased off the line better with no gas applied better than my carb did.
A couple of hard acceleration runs 1st to 2nd and it pulled strong about the same as before with carb but again it felt smoother and quieter.
Next I pulled it hard to about 4500 a couple of times in 1st and had a small pop out the exhaust when I shifted fast into second. But from 2nd to 3rd did not have the backfire.
She ran good the rest of the drive.
When I got back home called Fitech again and talked to them about the backfire. It wasn't as loud today as yesterday and was at a higher rpm today. The tech seems to think a little more learning has to take place as well as an adjustment to the accel/decel stage on the handheld when removing foot from gas peddle and shifting.
Other than that I had no issues. It started every time after I turned it off. Started real well when I first started it up today.
More testing.
65-StingRay
Wayne
Anyway - just got back from another 20 mile drive. The air temp here is about 40* F.
Before I left I made an adjustment to something called the Decel IAC Open setting in the EFI tuning on the handheld. Bryce at Fitech recommended a -30 setting mine was at +2. All I had to do was go to that window on the controller and hold the toggle switch to the left until I got the desired setting. After playing with a few different settings I tuned it to -53. Settings go from -90 to +90. Made a big positive difference in the way the revs drop after you release the gas peddle. And I think this is the reason my car stalled yesterday those two times.
The city is dusty and the roads are covered in small ball bearings from winter sanding.
Drove easy in the beginning watching the gauges on the handheld. Some parameters I like to pay attention to are AFR, Batt. voltage in real time,cylinder temp, air temp, water temp - compared to my gauge in dash, RPMs, spark advance, vacuum, Inj. duty and a host of others.
As I drove more I felt the efi learned more because the engine was running very smooth - no hiccups at low speed or feathering clutch. I thought it eased off the line better with no gas applied better than my carb did.
A couple of hard acceleration runs 1st to 2nd and it pulled strong about the same as before with carb but again it felt smoother and quieter.
Next I pulled it hard to about 4500 a couple of times in 1st and had a small pop out the exhaust when I shifted fast into second. But from 2nd to 3rd did not have the backfire.
She ran good the rest of the drive.
When I got back home called Fitech again and talked to them about the backfire. It wasn't as loud today as yesterday and was at a higher rpm today. The tech seems to think a little more learning has to take place as well as an adjustment to the accel/decel stage on the handheld when removing foot from gas peddle and shifting.
Other than that I had no issues. It started every time after I turned it off. Started real well when I first started it up today.
More testing.
65-StingRay
Wayne
I will be in Edmonton next week visiting my son....
Bill
03-16-2016, 07:42 PM
#49
Race Director
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: Inverness FL
Posts: 17,891
Received 727 Likes
on
621 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07
Looking at the big picture, you actually are getting a deal...fuel systems aside, since you need them regardless of who's name is on the box that the parts come in...
The FiTech is still HALF (or less) the money of any big name Throttle Body EFI, and does more than almost every single other option. I haven't read or heard of anyone having an issue with the actual unit.
I know it's very easy to find people having problems with the actual software and TB units regarding the FAST brand, and one of my good friends has been having nothing but problems with his MSD Atomic, which is what I had planned to get until I saw this setup.
Holley is coming out with a $1000 Throttle Body system to compete with FiTech's. Not due out until end of May, I think it is...and I'd bet anyone here, it's going to be an offshore manufactured setup (just like FiTech), with no more testing than this brand got.
The FiTech is still HALF (or less) the money of any big name Throttle Body EFI, and does more than almost every single other option. I haven't read or heard of anyone having an issue with the actual unit.
I know it's very easy to find people having problems with the actual software and TB units regarding the FAST brand, and one of my good friends has been having nothing but problems with his MSD Atomic, which is what I had planned to get until I saw this setup.
Holley is coming out with a $1000 Throttle Body system to compete with FiTech's. Not due out until end of May, I think it is...and I'd bet anyone here, it's going to be an offshore manufactured setup (just like FiTech), with no more testing than this brand got.
Bill
03-16-2016, 09:40 PM
#51
wayne from your post you seem to be highly skilled under the hood. you fixed a command center problem yourself with a little help. I read your issues listed above. do you think from your current communications with fitech about your problems that someone who is not as skilled could resolve these issues with their tech help? when you are 2000 miles away, it is a little alarming to read of stalling and backfires. in my case this would probably have led to a wrecker call. I just wonder if you think their tech help can resolve these type problems with just an average guy with garage skills? I have done many carb swaps and installs over the years. but, I never had one that quit on me and would not restart. these things make me a little nervous as a first time buyer/ user of the new efi units.
thanks for your posts. any comments are appreciated.
phil
thanks for your posts. any comments are appreciated.
phil
03-16-2016, 10:08 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
wayne from your post you seem to be highly skilled under the hood. you fixed a command center problem yourself with a little help. I read your issues listed above. do you think from your current communications with fitech about your problems that someone who is not as skilled could resolve these issues with their tech help? when you are 2000 miles away, it is a little alarming to read of stalling and backfires. in my case this would probably have led to a wrecker call. I just wonder if you think their tech help can resolve these type problems with just an average guy with garage skills? I have done many carb swaps and installs over the years. but, I never had one that quit on me and would not restart. these things make me a little nervous as a first time buyer/ user of the new efi units.
thanks for your posts. any comments are appreciated.
phil
thanks for your posts. any comments are appreciated.
phil
If you can make your way around a carb you can make your way around throttle body efi. The tech guys have helped me so far - I believe my issues are tuning. So I will relate to them whenever I have to for help.
There are a lot of parameters in the handheld that can be set with a little help from the techs. You probably should have no problem.
Part of my tuning issues are: fairly low vacuum (10-11.6 psi) - full manifold vacuum not ported;wild solid roller camshaft (242* I 246* E @.050" - .646" I .653 E lift); cold weather right now and myself for not knowing enough about how to set everything.
Tomorrow I'm going to call them to help me set the fuel accel/decel modes when I shift.
Hope this helps a little.
65-StingRay
Wayne
03-17-2016, 06:59 AM
#53
Burning Brakes
I found that my car, for whatever reason, liked Cam Setting 2, much better than any other. My cam is fairly mild for a hydraulic roller, 233/243 @ .050", but on a 107* lsa. My vacuum is 7-8 in gear, and 10-12 in neutral/Park. I thought Setting 3 would have been closer, but it seems some things on the settings, you just have to try what you think should work.
I changed some of my DFCO settings, which are Deceleration Fuel CutOff settings, that all newer EFI vehicles use as well. I have mine where if I am say on the highway, and let ouff the gas, the injectors turn off and my pillar mounted wideband shows full LEAN, because fuel is turned off, pretty much until I touch the gas pedal, or get below a certain MAP/RPM. My car was originally "freight training", which means it was sort of surging on decel, due to the DFCO not being aggressive enough...It was cutting in and out, causing the surge.
It's amazing how many things there are for us to screw up, lol...
Just like if I am tuning a newer vehicle with my HPTuners software, I try to do only ONE change at a time, so it's much easier to correct, if I'm totally wrong on the setting I changed.
BTW, According to Fedex, They got my FCC back to FiTech yesterday just after lunch, so according to Bryce, they'd have it ONE DAY....we shall see. The more I sleep on it, the more I think I had the same issue you had, but once I sent them a video of the fuel showering out of the vent, they immediately sent me a RMA number, and asked that I send it back right away...
03-17-2016, 09:49 AM
#54
fi tech efi
Phil, learned would be a better word than skilled.
If you can make your way around a carb you can make your way around throttle body efi. The tech guys have helped me so far - I believe my issues are tuning. So I will relate to them whenever I have to for help.
There are a lot of parameters in the handheld that can be set with a little help from the techs. You probably should have no problem.
Part of my tuning issues are: fairly low vacuum (10-11.6 psi) - full manifold vacuum not ported;wild solid roller camshaft (242* I 246* E @.050" - .646" I .653 E lift); cold weather right now and myself for not knowing enough about how to set everything.
Tomorrow I'm going to call them to help me set the fuel accel/decel modes when I shift.
Hope this helps a little.
65-StingRay
Wayne
If you can make your way around a carb you can make your way around throttle body efi. The tech guys have helped me so far - I believe my issues are tuning. So I will relate to them whenever I have to for help.
There are a lot of parameters in the handheld that can be set with a little help from the techs. You probably should have no problem.
Part of my tuning issues are: fairly low vacuum (10-11.6 psi) - full manifold vacuum not ported;wild solid roller camshaft (242* I 246* E @.050" - .646" I .653 E lift); cold weather right now and myself for not knowing enough about how to set everything.
Tomorrow I'm going to call them to help me set the fuel accel/decel modes when I shift.
Hope this helps a little.
65-StingRay
Wayne
my engine only makes 10-12 inches vacuum. but my cam is a hydraulic roller 236/242 @50 with a 110 degree centerline. circle track type grind 1500-6000rpm power band. and, I am using a 200r4 auto trans custom built. I am sure working with a manual trans requires some additional adjustments. my biggest concern was how it would act with my vacuum levels. and, I think I understand that most of the reported issues are coming from fuel feed. I am using a frame mounted aeromotive pump with a return line and a vented cap. it sounds like I can get this going without a lot of hassle. I currently have an older system. it's a boss efi stage II. nothing but trouble for me and hours of laptop adjustments which I am not good at.
thanks again,
phil
03-19-2016, 05:09 PM
#56
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
OK, it's been a couple of days and here's my results.
It starts and runs real well while cold - I could never drive it out of the garage and drive around while cold like that before.
It doesn't stutter or shake and it actually pulls away as if it was warm with no backfires - the temps here around the 40*s.
I've started it hot and cold a number of times and each time it seems to do it better. For example this mornings 1st start in the garage - let it prime, turned key it started and achieved a nice warm-up idle without touching the gas peddle. This was unattainable before efi - carb with electric choke.
While driving around (like a normal person would) she performs excellent.
Starts off the line with a feather of gas or a little stronger push comes instant throttle response. Torque at these low gears is easily controllable and when you get into it, throttle response is crisp and seems the only other word I have is smooth because it's definitely smoother.
There's a ton of videos on You Tube now with FiTech start ups on all kinds of vehicles with all kinds of horsepower. Some have absolutely no issues from 1st start to drive-ability others with wilder engines have to tune more. I'm in the tuning category and as I'm learning I'm becoming a better tuner - but there is much to learn.
Here's some of the negatives:
OK, I've mentioned I've stalled a few times. The problem as FiTech describes it - same problem rel3rd had - old Command Center has some pressure issues which lead to emptying the sump and the increased pressure not allowing fuel back in results in a stall. Pull off vent line, release pressure on check ball with sharp object (pen refill) that fits into vent hole. Take orange wire off, re-prime, re-attach orange wire and restart. The check ball is in case of a rollover so the vent will plug and gas will not get over on anything hot. Anyway these old units had a problem with pressure build up which forced the check ball up and closed the vent.
FiTech is taking care of me - ship it back to them - they upgrade me and ship back on there dime. It's a small company but I like their customer service so far.
The only other issue I have is the small pop out the sidepipes on a very fast 1st to 2nd shift above 3500 rpms. I believe this may be my fault. When put on the throttle body I could not use my drop base from my air cleaner so am now using a different drop base that does not have a provision for a vent tube running to the carb or throttle body. The result is - the system no longer runs in a closed loop the way it was designed to run. This causes a great pressure build up in the crankcase under powerful acceleration in 1st - too much back pressure with no where to release it causes the exhaust to pop. Anyone let me know if my thinking is wrong on this. If I shift normal above 3500 I do not get any popping.
To fix this problem I've ordered a vent tube and flame arrestor from CC. I will drill a hole in the new base and have my buddy weld it in for me. I have also ordered a new pcv valve from a company called M/E Wagner - it's a dual flow adjustable. It lets you adjust the idle and the transition to cruise. Here's their website: http://mewagner.com. Check them out good info here.
Alright that's enough for now. I'm removing the fuel sump and sending it back. Maybe in a couple of weeks the city will have the streets cleaned and I can get back to testing.
65-StingRay
Wayne
It starts and runs real well while cold - I could never drive it out of the garage and drive around while cold like that before.
It doesn't stutter or shake and it actually pulls away as if it was warm with no backfires - the temps here around the 40*s.
I've started it hot and cold a number of times and each time it seems to do it better. For example this mornings 1st start in the garage - let it prime, turned key it started and achieved a nice warm-up idle without touching the gas peddle. This was unattainable before efi - carb with electric choke.
While driving around (like a normal person would) she performs excellent.
Starts off the line with a feather of gas or a little stronger push comes instant throttle response. Torque at these low gears is easily controllable and when you get into it, throttle response is crisp and seems the only other word I have is smooth because it's definitely smoother.
There's a ton of videos on You Tube now with FiTech start ups on all kinds of vehicles with all kinds of horsepower. Some have absolutely no issues from 1st start to drive-ability others with wilder engines have to tune more. I'm in the tuning category and as I'm learning I'm becoming a better tuner - but there is much to learn.
Here's some of the negatives:
OK, I've mentioned I've stalled a few times. The problem as FiTech describes it - same problem rel3rd had - old Command Center has some pressure issues which lead to emptying the sump and the increased pressure not allowing fuel back in results in a stall. Pull off vent line, release pressure on check ball with sharp object (pen refill) that fits into vent hole. Take orange wire off, re-prime, re-attach orange wire and restart. The check ball is in case of a rollover so the vent will plug and gas will not get over on anything hot. Anyway these old units had a problem with pressure build up which forced the check ball up and closed the vent.
FiTech is taking care of me - ship it back to them - they upgrade me and ship back on there dime. It's a small company but I like their customer service so far.
The only other issue I have is the small pop out the sidepipes on a very fast 1st to 2nd shift above 3500 rpms. I believe this may be my fault. When put on the throttle body I could not use my drop base from my air cleaner so am now using a different drop base that does not have a provision for a vent tube running to the carb or throttle body. The result is - the system no longer runs in a closed loop the way it was designed to run. This causes a great pressure build up in the crankcase under powerful acceleration in 1st - too much back pressure with no where to release it causes the exhaust to pop. Anyone let me know if my thinking is wrong on this. If I shift normal above 3500 I do not get any popping.
To fix this problem I've ordered a vent tube and flame arrestor from CC. I will drill a hole in the new base and have my buddy weld it in for me. I have also ordered a new pcv valve from a company called M/E Wagner - it's a dual flow adjustable. It lets you adjust the idle and the transition to cruise. Here's their website: http://mewagner.com. Check them out good info here.
Alright that's enough for now. I'm removing the fuel sump and sending it back. Maybe in a couple of weeks the city will have the streets cleaned and I can get back to testing.
65-StingRay
Wayne
03-27-2016, 06:13 PM
#58
Burning Brakes
OK, it's been a couple of days and here's my results.
It starts and runs real well while cold - I could never drive it out of the garage and drive around while cold like that before.
It doesn't stutter or shake and it actually pulls away as if it was warm with no backfires - the temps here around the 40*s.
I've started it hot and cold a number of times and each time it seems to do it better. For example this mornings 1st start in the garage - let it prime, turned key it started and achieved a nice warm-up idle without touching the gas peddle. This was unattainable before efi - carb with electric choke.
While driving around (like a normal person would) she performs excellent.
Starts off the line with a feather of gas or a little stronger push comes instant throttle response. Torque at these low gears is easily controllable and when you get into it, throttle response is crisp and seems the only other word I have is smooth because it's definitely smoother.
There's a ton of videos on You Tube now with FiTech start ups on all kinds of vehicles with all kinds of horsepower. Some have absolutely no issues from 1st start to drive-ability others with wilder engines have to tune more. I'm in the tuning category and as I'm learning I'm becoming a better tuner - but there is much to learn.
Here's some of the negatives:
OK, I've mentioned I've stalled a few times. The problem as FiTech describes it - same problem rel3rd had - old Command Center has some pressure issues which lead to emptying the sump and the increased pressure not allowing fuel back in results in a stall. Pull off vent line, release pressure on check ball with sharp object (pen refill) that fits into vent hole. Take orange wire off, re-prime, re-attach orange wire and restart. The check ball is in case of a rollover so the vent will plug and gas will not get over on anything hot. Anyway these old units had a problem with pressure build up which forced the check ball up and closed the vent.
FiTech is taking care of me - ship it back to them - they upgrade me and ship back on there dime. It's a small company but I like their customer service so far.
The only other issue I have is the small pop out the sidepipes on a very fast 1st to 2nd shift above 3500 rpms. I believe this may be my fault. When put on the throttle body I could not use my drop base from my air cleaner so am now using a different drop base that does not have a provision for a vent tube running to the carb or throttle body. The result is - the system no longer runs in a closed loop the way it was designed to run. This causes a great pressure build up in the crankcase under powerful acceleration in 1st - too much back pressure with no where to release it causes the exhaust to pop. Anyone let me know if my thinking is wrong on this. If I shift normal above 3500 I do not get any popping.
To fix this problem I've ordered a vent tube and flame arrestor from CC. I will drill a hole in the new base and have my buddy weld it in for me. I have also ordered a new pcv valve from a company called M/E Wagner - it's a dual flow adjustable. It lets you adjust the idle and the transition to cruise. Here's their website: http://mewagner.com. Check them out good info here.
Alright that's enough for now. I'm removing the fuel sump and sending it back. Maybe in a couple of weeks the city will have the streets cleaned and I can get back to testing.
65-StingRay
Wayne
It starts and runs real well while cold - I could never drive it out of the garage and drive around while cold like that before.
It doesn't stutter or shake and it actually pulls away as if it was warm with no backfires - the temps here around the 40*s.
I've started it hot and cold a number of times and each time it seems to do it better. For example this mornings 1st start in the garage - let it prime, turned key it started and achieved a nice warm-up idle without touching the gas peddle. This was unattainable before efi - carb with electric choke.
While driving around (like a normal person would) she performs excellent.
Starts off the line with a feather of gas or a little stronger push comes instant throttle response. Torque at these low gears is easily controllable and when you get into it, throttle response is crisp and seems the only other word I have is smooth because it's definitely smoother.
There's a ton of videos on You Tube now with FiTech start ups on all kinds of vehicles with all kinds of horsepower. Some have absolutely no issues from 1st start to drive-ability others with wilder engines have to tune more. I'm in the tuning category and as I'm learning I'm becoming a better tuner - but there is much to learn.
Here's some of the negatives:
OK, I've mentioned I've stalled a few times. The problem as FiTech describes it - same problem rel3rd had - old Command Center has some pressure issues which lead to emptying the sump and the increased pressure not allowing fuel back in results in a stall. Pull off vent line, release pressure on check ball with sharp object (pen refill) that fits into vent hole. Take orange wire off, re-prime, re-attach orange wire and restart. The check ball is in case of a rollover so the vent will plug and gas will not get over on anything hot. Anyway these old units had a problem with pressure build up which forced the check ball up and closed the vent.
FiTech is taking care of me - ship it back to them - they upgrade me and ship back on there dime. It's a small company but I like their customer service so far.
The only other issue I have is the small pop out the sidepipes on a very fast 1st to 2nd shift above 3500 rpms. I believe this may be my fault. When put on the throttle body I could not use my drop base from my air cleaner so am now using a different drop base that does not have a provision for a vent tube running to the carb or throttle body. The result is - the system no longer runs in a closed loop the way it was designed to run. This causes a great pressure build up in the crankcase under powerful acceleration in 1st - too much back pressure with no where to release it causes the exhaust to pop. Anyone let me know if my thinking is wrong on this. If I shift normal above 3500 I do not get any popping.
To fix this problem I've ordered a vent tube and flame arrestor from CC. I will drill a hole in the new base and have my buddy weld it in for me. I have also ordered a new pcv valve from a company called M/E Wagner - it's a dual flow adjustable. It lets you adjust the idle and the transition to cruise. Here's their website: http://mewagner.com. Check them out good info here.
Alright that's enough for now. I'm removing the fuel sump and sending it back. Maybe in a couple of weeks the city will have the streets cleaned and I can get back to testing.
65-StingRay
Wayne
One or two more awesome pulls, then right back to running poorly and doing the exact same thing it was....nosing over, going full lean, gas filling up the vent line, won't take more than 1/2 pedal, etc...
If I blow out the vent line, it'll run great for 2 or 3 good WOT blasts, then back to the same old thing...
I thought it best for me not to call them Friday afternoon, as it would certainly be a very heated conversation on my end, guaranteed.
I spent the day Saturday, removing my stock tank, and running wiring and plumbing back, in anticipation of swapping in a TanksInc EFI tank like I should have done from the start.
I just hope they do not give me any crap about giving me a refund. I will.update after I speak to them tomorrow.
I've had no issues with how the system works, aside from the defective FCC I have received. I'm looking forward to running the car without the anxiety of breakdown worries....
Good Luck with yours....please feel free to reference my FCC issues with them. They definitely know the guy from Maryland with the red Chevelle....my thread on www.chevelles.com is at 45,000 views now...and I think 41 pages of replies. I sure hope they make this situation right for the both of us...
Last edited by rel3rd; 03-27-2016 at 06:15 PM.
03-27-2016, 07:11 PM
#59
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2002
Location: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Posts: 7,098
Received 373 Likes
on
356 Posts
Here's some of the negatives:
OK, I've mentioned I've stalled a few times. The problem as FiTech describes it - same problem rel3rd had - old Command Center has some pressure issues which lead to emptying the sump and the increased pressure not allowing fuel back in results in a stall. Pull off vent line, release pressure on check ball with sharp object (pen refill) that fits into vent hole. Take orange wire off, re-prime, re-attach orange wire and restart. The check ball is in case of a rollover so the vent will plug and gas will not get over on anything hot. Anyway these old units had a problem with pressure build up which forced the check ball up and closed the vent.
FiTech is taking care of me - ship it back to them - they upgrade me and ship back on there dime. It's a small company but I like their customer service so far.
Alright that's enough for now. I'm removing the fuel sump and sending it back. Maybe in a couple of weeks the city will have the streets cleaned and I can get back to testing.
65-StingRay
Wayne
Just a suggestion here is try and google "swirl fuel pot system" and see what other designs are used as they are used prolifically in racing. U may come up with your own. And i believe the vendors (Summit) has the pots on the shelf if u dont fab your own - then all u need is a compatible pump and maybe filter, well plumb it all also. Swirl pots aint rocket science but u do have to choose compatible parts and plumb them correctly.
Good luck.
OK, I've mentioned I've stalled a few times. The problem as FiTech describes it - same problem rel3rd had - old Command Center has some pressure issues which lead to emptying the sump and the increased pressure not allowing fuel back in results in a stall. Pull off vent line, release pressure on check ball with sharp object (pen refill) that fits into vent hole. Take orange wire off, re-prime, re-attach orange wire and restart. The check ball is in case of a rollover so the vent will plug and gas will not get over on anything hot. Anyway these old units had a problem with pressure build up which forced the check ball up and closed the vent.
FiTech is taking care of me - ship it back to them - they upgrade me and ship back on there dime. It's a small company but I like their customer service so far.
Alright that's enough for now. I'm removing the fuel sump and sending it back. Maybe in a couple of weeks the city will have the streets cleaned and I can get back to testing.
65-StingRay
Wayne
Just a suggestion here is try and google "swirl fuel pot system" and see what other designs are used as they are used prolifically in racing. U may come up with your own. And i believe the vendors (Summit) has the pots on the shelf if u dont fab your own - then all u need is a compatible pump and maybe filter, well plumb it all also. Swirl pots aint rocket science but u do have to choose compatible parts and plumb them correctly.
Good luck.
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65-StingRay (03-28-2016)
03-27-2016, 07:59 PM
#60
Instructor
I commented on Rel3rds thread eariler. Let me fist say, I have no experience with this FCC or really anything made by this company, and my earlier comment were made without knowing this thing has a float/needle valve in it. All of my EFI experience has been with Megasquirt systems made from various heinz57 components, none of which were ever intended to go together. Doesn't matter. An injector is an injector, maybe with a different size, connector, dead time, and flow rate. I'll say this is a **** poor way to do a surge tank, especially if it's under the hood. Post 9 show's my version of a FCC. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...3-upgrade.html Rather than using a float to keep the tank full, I'm letting the tank pressurize to 4-5 PSI the mechanical 100 GPH pump can generate, and pushing the excess out the top to the return line. Here's where I think You guys FCC is going wrong. The electric high pressure pump has a small internal bleed that hepls it recover it's prime if it ever gulps a little air, and the regulator is also in there, bleeding off the excess pressure. You can't dead head a electric high pressure pump. New cars modulate the power down, but I doubt this thing does that. I believe it has an internal bypass regulator. That's what the vacuum tube is for, to index the set pressure to manifold vacuum.
Anyway, the problem is the float is keeping the extra capacity from the mech pump from pushing the hot fuel back to the tank and keeping it full of cool fuel. And the elec pump is runnign flat out, heating the fuel to a near boil. This agitated boiling fuel enters the elec pump, and it loses pressure... like a bubble in your brake lines.
I'll suggest a solution, but understand that you're likely forfeiting your warranty. The cure I would suggest is gutting the float and valve, and opening up any restrictions in the vent (check valve, sintered bronze filter etc) and letting it free flow return to the tank. This will keep the elec pump with a good supply of COOL fresh fuel, not the agitated, heated and aireiated stuff you have in there.
I think we can all agree the engine problems you are having are fuel starvation. If removing the vent and pushing the check ball makes it spray fuel everywhere, then there is fuel in the FCC. My suggestion is still that the elec pump is cavitating, and that can be from sucking in a little air, or fuel that is hot enough or under a little vacuum and is boiling at the pump intake.
Google and read up on the hows and whys of a surge tank. Don't throw in the towel on EFI over this small issue, Get this straightened out, get it tuned and you'll never buy a carb again. And when you're all excited about how well this TBI runs, I'll tell you how you can have twice the cam and a big super victor single plane manifold and still have a solid idle if you step up to port injected like I have on my 427W in my cobra. It's 475 HP at the wheel and starts with a simple turn of the key, and only ever stalls if I dump the clutch at an idle.
Anyway, the problem is the float is keeping the extra capacity from the mech pump from pushing the hot fuel back to the tank and keeping it full of cool fuel. And the elec pump is runnign flat out, heating the fuel to a near boil. This agitated boiling fuel enters the elec pump, and it loses pressure... like a bubble in your brake lines.
I'll suggest a solution, but understand that you're likely forfeiting your warranty. The cure I would suggest is gutting the float and valve, and opening up any restrictions in the vent (check valve, sintered bronze filter etc) and letting it free flow return to the tank. This will keep the elec pump with a good supply of COOL fresh fuel, not the agitated, heated and aireiated stuff you have in there.
I think we can all agree the engine problems you are having are fuel starvation. If removing the vent and pushing the check ball makes it spray fuel everywhere, then there is fuel in the FCC. My suggestion is still that the elec pump is cavitating, and that can be from sucking in a little air, or fuel that is hot enough or under a little vacuum and is boiling at the pump intake.
Google and read up on the hows and whys of a surge tank. Don't throw in the towel on EFI over this small issue, Get this straightened out, get it tuned and you'll never buy a carb again. And when you're all excited about how well this TBI runs, I'll tell you how you can have twice the cam and a big super victor single plane manifold and still have a solid idle if you step up to port injected like I have on my 427W in my cobra. It's 475 HP at the wheel and starts with a simple turn of the key, and only ever stalls if I dump the clutch at an idle.
Last edited by Luce; 03-27-2016 at 08:01 PM. Reason: typo. Auto correct put double instead of doubt
The following 2 users liked this post by Luce:
65-StingRay (03-28-2016),
rel3rd (03-27-2016)