cannonsid

Before I acquired my 1958 Corvette someone converted the front wheel bearings from ball bearings to tapered roller bearings.
I decided it would be a good idea to repack them so I pulled the right side and did the work with no problem.
When I tried to pull the left side hub it would not come off.
I finally had to use a slide hammer to get the hub off but the inner wheel bearing was frozen on the spindle with the grease seal behind it.
I had to use a cut off wheel and heat to get it off.
It looked like the inner race had spun until the heat locked it onto the spindle.
After that it worked fine until I tried to remove it.

Even though the right side was OK I ordered a new tapered roller bearing kit from Corvette Central to replace both sides.
Upon getting the new parts I started looking at the design and was quite surprised by what I discovered.
The original ball bearing design and the replacement roller bearing design are somewhat unique.
On most cars that I am familiar with the inside of the inner bearing race rides up against a shoulder on the spindle.
This leaves a space where the grease seal can ride on the spindle.
On Corvettes and big Chevys of the same era the inside of the inner bearing race rides up against the grease deflector/dust shield and the backing plate.
The inner race extends past the end of the bearing and the seal rides on the race rather than on the spindle.

In my opinion this design creates a BIG potential problem.
The friction between the spindle and the inner race is supposed to keep the inner race from spinning on the spindle.
The only thing that keeps the inner race from spinning on the spindle is if the internal bearing friction is less than the friction between the inner race and the spindle.
This is important for this design to work successfully.

At this point I figured the reason my inner bearing spun on the spindle had something to do with this design.
With this in mind I installed new races, packed the new bearings and got ready to install the first grease seal.
I started tapping the seal into the hub but it would not go all the way down flush with the face of the hub.
I seemed to remember this comment on the Forum that the seal would not go all the way down.
The problem was that the seal was not in far enough to hold it in place.
If I tapped on the edge of the seal it popped right out.
With the seal in as far as it would go I checked to see if I could easily turn the inner race.
I was surprised to find I could barely turn it.
I used my seal set to pound the seal flush.
After doing this it was impossible to rotate the inner race.
Everything was together and looked fine but if I had put it together this way I am quite sure the inner race might have spun on the spindle.

Next I took everything apart to determine the problem.
I have included a series of photos to show the problem and the fix.
First I checked to confirm that the relief in the hub was deeper than the thickness of the seal.
You can see in the photos that the depth of the relief is .284” and the thickness of the seal is .232” plenty of room for the seal to go all the way in.
Next I took the bearing out of the hub and placed the seal to see how far it went on.
Not near enough.
In the next photo you can see the problem.
There is a shoulder on the inner race that prevents the seal from going on all the way.

It seemed I only had two choices; leave the seal partly out or knock it all the way in and chance another spun bearing.
Neither of these choices was acceptable.
Here was my fix:
I decided to cut off most of the seal lip.
To do this I put the seal on the bearing upside down so the lip was supported.
Then I used a utility knife and cut off the lip all the way at the bottom at a 45 degree angle.
After doing this I drove on the seal.
I was very pleased to find that the inner race now turned easily.
I put the hub and wheel on the car and gave it a good spin.
It turned about two and a half revolutions before stopping.
Then I went back and drove the other seal (with the lip still in place) part way into the hub, put it on the car with the tire and gave it a spin.
It only turned about one and a quarter turns.
Since I was experimenting I also tried knocking the seal all the way in.
To see if the inner race was spinning I marked the end of the race with a black marker.
I put it on and set the nut.
It would only spin about half a turn.
When I pulled it off I could see where the race had started to spin on the spindle about 30 degrees before settling in.
I cut the seal and finished up the other side.

I will try to upload the videos if possible.
I am convinced that if you are running the tapered roller bearing conversion kit you have the potential of spinning a bearing race.
Please let me know if anyone else has had a problem with a spun bearing or if I am the only one.

TR54

I realize that this thread is several years old. I only wish I had seen it before installing new roller bearings in one of my hubs for the 54. I bought the inners, outers, and seals through Allied. They are manufactured by Kobe. 909052-R inner, 909001-R outer, and F749 seal. Seal looks to be made by TTO.

Anyway, now I cannot rotate the inner bearing race by hand. Waaaay too tight.

I can use the advise in this thread and trim the seal. Frankly, however, it seems ridiculous that I should have to do that, and I don’t want to end up with leaky seals after all of this. I am going to call Allied on Monday.

Any other suggestions anyone?

Critter1

If it were mine, I would definitely go back with a new set of original design ball bearings. I still don't understand what folks are trying to gain by using roller bearings.

TR54

I probably should have. Going to be using stock bias-ply tires, All other components stock. Not going to do 'hot rod' type driving. However, I have these now. Allied sells this set as a kit (seals and all) to Paragon and to Corvette Central. On Corvette Central's page for this it says "These inner bearing seals do not seat flush, this is normal." Perhaps I just need to get the idea out of my head that the seals need to be driven all of the way in. As always, appreciate any feedback.

LouieM

Agreed. Swapping in roller bearings seems like one of those answers to a question nobody asked.

SDVette

I did the conversion about a year ago.
There are correct conversion kits out there..

Maybe one of the vendors will sell you just the grease seal?

Here is an old thread with details: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...onversion.html

Fred

csherman

I had a similar problem
I had to mill the area back for the seal to fit
not sure I would do it again

TR54

Thank you all for your input so far! Such a good crowd here! I looked at SDVette's thread. His kit with seals that he says worked came from Ecklers. Their site includes photos that look like the seals could conceptually work. Ecklers does not sell these seals separately. I am going to contact their supplier of this kit to see if the seal is compatible with the inside race of the inner roller bearing and, if so, if I can buy just the seals. I will post the result of my inquiry for posterity. :-)

TR54

Classic Performance Products (800-522-5004) (www.classicperform.com) is shipping me two seals that are the ones they include with the tapered roller bearing sets they supply to Ecklers. Hopefully those will be the ones I am looking for. I will post the info when I receive them.

TR54

I got the seals and am posting photos here. Much better. The inner race rotates now.

Hulou

Wow What a Great write-up~ OK I Have the Kobe Bearings and Races. Now If I got the New Seal 749 things would work correctly?
? How the seal need to be even with the inner bearing?

Let me know, I'm trying the change out with the new roller bearings now. I purchased my bearing set from Zip Covette, Corvette Central is Has been out of the Bearing set for months!!!

Thanks, Hugh

Hulou

Thank You for your post on the Bearing seals from Classic Performance Do you have the Part Number of the seals on the picture that you provided?
I was going to order two Seal like those pictured . Thanks Again Let me know at hugh1928@gmail,com
Hugh

TR54

Okay, so some time has passed, and I am doing some chassis assembly on the '54. I (finally) put the brakes together on the front end, and am in the process of mounting the front hubs/drums. I had replaced the inner and out ball bearings with a set of roller bearings. So I know not to use the process that would apply to the ball bearings. In tightening up the bearings I did the following...

-made sure that brake pads were close to inner surface of drum, but not touching
-put the stamped dust shield on the spindle (held by a tiny dab of grease to keep it in place while installing hub)
-put on hub assembly (with roller bearings installed in it)
-installed washer and nut
-Finger tightened nut and then continued to finger tighten while gently turning drum
-'Wiggled" drum to make sure it was drawing on square and nicely (more like making sure it won't 'wiggle')
-torqued spindle nut to 12 foot-pounds while rotating drum
-backed off spindle nut by one flat

Okay, here is the question...It just seems way too tight. The drum can be turned by hand, but seems to have so much drag. It certainly won't continue to turn when I let go, either. I do not believe that the brake shoes are dragging, but rather it is the tightness of the bearing. I have not gotten to checking that I have end play, but also don't believe that it could possibly have any at this point. Attached is the procedure I used. Does this seem right?

Thanks.

TJP440

This was a great post that i just happened to stumble across while contemplating the The timken conversion on a 61.
To answer the above question: It is hard to say without being able to "feel" the drag you speak of. Newly installed bearings will typically be set and feel bit tighter than used ones as they will take a set, but not much. I also going to assume you do not have a cap on the nut like the one shown. They will allow a much finer adjustment than a straight castellated nut but they also require a thinner nut to accommodate the height of the adjustment slots and thickness of the cap.
I believe in the 66 manual ( you're using) they are using the "cap" as that is the only way to get a "half a flat" adjustment.



To answer the others questions about the reason for doing the conversion is the longevity and load carrying capacity of the Timken far exceeds that of a ball bearing. Years ago it was recommended to clean, repack, and adjust the wheel bearings every 5 or 10K miles. Even doing so would not guarantee its longevity. With the Timken design that requirement has gone the way a 8 tracks and cassette tapes.

csherman

I wont do another roller conversation
I had to machine down the bearing for the wheel lip to fit correctly
It is a flaw in the design - the new bearing doesnt work with the old seal
Look like there is a new seal design tho