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Can a 63 master cylinder be changed without bleeding.
I will be installing an original 63 master cylinder and would like to know it the cylinder can be changed without bleeding all four wheels. Not sure how to do it or if it can be done. Maybe break the line at the bottom of the cylinder and bleed that line only.
Bench bleed the master prior to install . after removal and install of new master step down on pedal with line cracked close line before let up bleed line from master . if soft pedal bleed all cylinders furthest from master to closest.
Maybe break the line at the bottom of the cylinder and bleed that line only.
I've done a number of them on many different car models after bench bleeding and then installing to the main line. Only one did I choose to go downstream to the frame junction block and bleed there.
If you have a firm pedal, you're wasting your time going any further. Drum brakes makes no difference.
I've done a number of them on many different car models after bench bleeding and then installing to the main line. Only one did I choose to go downstream to the frame junction block and bleed there.
If you have a firm pedal, you're wasting your time going any further. Drum brakes makes no difference.
It can be done. Have done so in a pinch years ago. However, I would recommend you take the time and do it correctly and bleed the system. Besides removing air, it also puts fresh, clean brake fluid throughout the system.
Nothing more scary than being at 100 MPH and having no/minimal brakes and the road running out. I have been there (in my 1965 Plymouth) and it did result in significant sheet metal damage to the car.
Larry
Last edited by Powershift; 03-06-2016 at 05:34 PM.
I would recommend you take the time and do it correctly and bleed the system. Besides removing air, it also puts fresh, clean brake fluid throughout the system.
Nothing more scary than being at 100 MPH and having no/minimal brakes and the road running out. I have been there (in my 1965 Plymouth) and it did result in significant sheet metal damage to the car.
Larry
There is nothing incorrect about this procedure if there is no air in the system. If you don't knock the fluid out of the vertical line going to the frame, it is still full as is the ports in the MC if you bench bleed the MC. If you don't want to take 15 seconds to do that, you're wasting your time trying to change the MC without bleeding somewhere, even if it's at the first junction block on the frame. If you have a firm pedal, there is nothing to be gained by bleeding the brakes as far as the MC swap.
There is nothing incorrect about this procedure if there is no air in the system. If you don't knock the fluid out of the vertical line going to the frame, it is still full as is the ports in the MC if you bench bleed the MC. If you don't want to take 15 seconds to do that, you're wasting your time trying to change the MC without bleeding somewhere, even if it's at the first junction block on the frame. If you have a firm pedal, there is nothing to be gained by bleeding the brakes as far as the MC swap.
Flushing the brake system wasn't the issue.
Did you try this on your '65 Plymouth?
No............Plymouth incident was a separate issue. It was caused by too much HP, too much alcohol, rain, goading by some close friends, and a temporary lack of common sense. Never made it back that night to pickup my date for the evening either. Another friend drove her home. Did marry her a few years later though. But she NEVER forgot.
Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done. Why take a chance when bleeding the system is such an easy task. If you're not sure about the bleeding process perhaps you should also leave the master cylinder exchange to someone who is more experienced in the area. Brakes are important.
Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done. Why take a chance when bleeding the system is such an easy task. If you're not sure about the bleeding process perhaps you should also leave the master cylinder exchange to someone who is more experienced in the area. Brakes are important.
Breaking open a closed hydraulic system requires removing the air properly afterwards. Doesn't get much simpler than that...
Brakes are one of the places shortcuts based on anecdotal experiences isn't such a great idea.
Seems like I can't do anything to a car without bleeding. I cut my hand twice taking the belt off and removing the alternator to change the valve cover gaskets on my 95, and you should have seen my arms after changing the oil dipstick tube on my 65.
Oh, I see now, you meant bleeding the brake fluid. Still no.
Sounds to me like there's a couple of guys here that need to read up on hydraulics or take their brake problems to somebody that knows what they're doing.
It's simple. It has nothing to do with anecdotal tales Either you have air in the system or you don't. But, some insist on making everything major drama for the simple reason to create drama.
Breaking open a closed hydraulic system requires removing the air properly afterwards. Doesn't get much simpler than that...
Brakes are one of the places shortcuts based on anecdotal experiences isn't such a great idea.
I changed a single piston M/C after bench bleeding and the pedal was firm, so I didn't have to bleed, but maybe I got lucky.
There will likely be a small air bubble at the top of the pipe, but you might be able to get it to purge through the compensating point by tapping the line and M/C with a plastic hammer.
If you do have a bubble the quickest way to purge it by bleeding is through the LH front wheel cylinder.
But if you don't know when the last time the system was completely flushed, do it now!
Mike & Dukes replies are spot on. I've done many master cylinders on DD's with dual masters and ABS ect.... not to mention our simple systems and never once had a bad pedal after bench bleeding the replacement master first and reconnecting the lines as long as they are not disturbed and have full fluid in them. That being said, if the fluid is old, I would recommend bleeding the wheels for maintenance purposes to get the nasty stuff out. Pilot Dan
I had a few C1 master cylinders rebuilt, bench bled them, made sure the vertical line to the end of the MC was filled with brake fluid, re-attached the line and the brakes were as good as they get.
No individual wheel cylinder bleeding.
If the pedal is not firm then bleed the wheel cylinders.
Always check for pedal firmness BEFORE you move the car.
When removing the M/C keep in mind the vertical line is the highest point in the complete system so the air will not enter the line.
On my 63, after bench bleeding and installing the M/C I left the vertical line just a 1/2 turn loose and gently pushed on the brake pedal so fluid leaked around the fitting then tightened.
FWIW, I really don't think it made any difference, the pedal was hard from the start. I want to add the car sat with the line disconnected for over a year.
Glad it worked for you guys - I'm not doing it.
Guess I'm too safety-paranoid after working around fighter aircraft so many years - belt and suspenders approach...
I have speed bleeder nipples on all four wheels on both cars; takes all of 10 minutes.
Glad it worked for you guys - I'm not doing it.
Guess I'm too safety-paranoid after working around fighter aircraft so many years - belt and suspenders approach...
I have speed bleeder nipples on all four wheels on both cars; takes all of 10 minutes.
Maybe, the regional mechanical section judging team couldn't even figure out if my alternator was correct (which it absolutely is) -- they jumbled up the date stamp with the casting number...not impressed.
I agree with Frankie - bleed at least the front wheel and all of them if you have not done this recently. I just did this on my '63. Had to rebuild the master cylinder. I do not see how you can get all of the air out of that junction between the master cylinder and the single line without bleeding - it is horizontal! And yes, I bench bled the master and had a reasonable pedal. However, when I bled the front wheel, I still saw a few small bubbles. Now, I know for sure there are none!
As for tbarb, since brake fluid absorbs moisture, if your brake line was open for over a year, I would definitely bleed the entire system to get all of the moisture out!
03-06-2016, 03:05 PM
Can a 63 master cylinder be changed without bleeding.
It can be done. Have done so in a pinch years ago. However, I would recommend you take the time and do it correctly and bleed the system. Besides removing air, it also puts fresh, clean brake fluid throughout the system.
Pilot Dan
