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Refer to this chart below that was created in 1978 notice specifically the age bracket of the corvette owners. Now can the NCRS create the same age bracket % for their members at this time i.e. year 2016. I am sure you will see a trend and future problem as the older generation meet their maker or just become non interested. Spin it anyway you want the numbers won't lie. Once the boomers are done with this club the addition of new members will not meet the demand of the old members leaving both voluntary or not. While I respect the amount of effort people go through to create top flight cars the level of draw for the younger guys to do this is quite low. I'm 42 and don't know anyone my age who cares about this originality to that high of a level.
Its all a numbers and waiting game. If I had to put my chips down right now. I would say that the NCRS will still be around just on a smaller less of a grand scale level. Which might actually make it a more "Exclusive" club if you will.
Back then, I had a Corvette. It was far from new, but in pretty decent shape. I was making about half the annual salary they listed, as were most of my friends who also had Corvettes. We were several years younger than that average age. But in the local clubs, it was kind of a bell curve, with the low 20s being near one lip of the bell, those right around 30 being the peak, and then those around 40 the other lip.
Corvettes had a hot rod image to a great degree, unlike sports cars like Lotus, Ferrari, Porsche, and such. And there was a much higher interest in raw American cars then.
I bought mine about that time for roughly 1/3 of my annual salary. Think of buying a 10-15 year old Corvette today. Would it be 1/3rd of your salary?
Of course, you could buy into a C4 anywhere from $4000 to $12,000 today. A $15/hour person would be $31,200 and so $10,000 is a third. That would even buy some C5 Corvettes.
So it isn't money even stopping them.
It is choices. They can buy so many fast cars, and there is peer pressure. Look at all the hot Japanese imports, and with the tuner kits. In some areas, everyone is into the 4x4 trucks.
And bikes, holy cow, bikes! If you want performance, you can't beat a bike. Outrun any cop and if thinks get too bad, you slide through a pedestrian walkway or tunnel and leave the cop stuck on the other side. And in a pack, how do you distinguish one bike from another?
Then there is the age gap. Back in '78, these "old guys" of like 35 and 40 were bit hard to relate to, but we could associate based on the common thread of Corvettes. But today, you aren't looking at a 15 year gap, you are looking at often a 50 year gap!
As to the Miami Concours d'Elegance, this isn't the answer. First, this is the rich, which eliminates most NCRS members. Second, if you look closely, there really aren't a lot of people in those pictures. Lakeland would look like a mob by comparison to the numbers.
What is the answer? I don't know.
But just like most of us didn't have Bloomington Gold cars back in 1978, most will not have NCRS top Flight cars today. We couldn't afford it.
And probably less today. This makes it hard to get a 25 year old in with an $80,000 collectible that sits in the garage most of the year and pampered and spent on at levels his kids probably don't get.
And harder to get 5 or 10 of his friends, too. Because without several friends, even if he can join and do this, without his friends, he won't.
Back then, I had a Corvette. It was far from new, but in pretty decent shape. I was making about half the annual salary they listed, as were most of my friends who also had Corvettes. We were several years younger than that average age. But in the local clubs, it was kind of a bell curve, with the low 20s being near one lip of the bell, those right around 30 being the peak, and then those around 40 the other lip.
Corvettes had a hot rod image to a great degree, unlike sports cars like Lotus, Ferrari, Porsche, and such. And there was a much higher interest in raw American cars then.
I bought mine about that time for roughly 1/3 of my annual salary. Think of buying a 10-15 year old Corvette today. Would it be 1/3rd of your salary?
Of course, you could buy into a C4 anywhere from $4000 to $12,000 today. A $15/hour person would be $31,200 and so $10,000 is a third. That would even buy some C5 Corvettes.
So it isn't money even stopping them.
It is choices. They can buy so many fast cars, and there is peer pressure. Look at all the hot Japanese imports, and with the tuner kits. In some areas, everyone is into the 4x4 trucks.
And bikes, holy cow, bikes! If you want performance, you can't beat a bike. Outrun any cop and if thinks get too bad, you slide through a pedestrian walkway or tunnel and leave the cop stuck on the other side. And in a pack, how do you distinguish one bike from another?
Then there is the age gap. Back in '78, these "old guys" of like 35 and 40 were bit hard to relate to, but we could associate based on the common thread of Corvettes. But today, you aren't looking at a 15 year gap, you are looking at often a 50 year gap!
As to the Miami Concours d'Elegance, this isn't the answer. First, this is the rich, which eliminates most NCRS members. Second, if you look closely, there really aren't a lot of people in those pictures. Lakeland would look like a mob by comparison to the numbers.
What is the answer? I don't know.
But just like most of us didn't have Bloomington Gold cars back in 1978, most will not have NCRS top Flight cars today. We couldn't afford it.
And probably less today. This makes it hard to get a 25 year old in with an $80,000 collectible that sits in the garage most of the year and pampered and spent on at levels his kids probably don't get.
And harder to get 5 or 10 of his friends, too. Because without several friends, even if he can join and do this, without his friends, he won't.
back in 1978 people did not have all the toys like they do today. your corvette was your only expensive toy. today people have a lot more bills to pay and everything is a lot more expensive.
Mr moderator please remove my name off this thread
Can someone wrap this thread up in a few words as to what is wrong with the NCRS. After reading all these posts I honestly do not know. Sure there a few guys that are **** about their car not winning a certain award but that would be a problem with any club. As for me, I would just like to see a bigger restorer magazine every month but it's not going to happen. Mr administer can you remove my name off this post.
Can someone wrap this thread up in a few words as to what is wrong with the NCRS. After reading all these posts I honestly do not know. Sure there a few guys that are **** about their car not winning a certain award but that would be a problem with any club. As for me, I would just like to see a bigger restorer magazine every month but it's not going to happen. Mr administer can you remove my name off this post.
between the NCRS and B/J auction people who have a old corvette just setting around think it is their retirement policy and want out of sight prices that prevent the average corvette enthusiast from buying it at a fair price.
In 1978 I had just bought my first Corvette, a 1970 LT1 with a bent frame and 60K miles. It was a piece of junk, but it was all I could afford, and yes I fit those 1978 demographics perfectly. But, it took me 30 more years to even hear about NCRS and have the money and time to buy a C2 and join. It is impossible to replicate the people in 1978 today, we are all almost 40 years older now, and the 30 year olds today have no interest or appreciation or history in the Corvettes of old (like we did in 1978) and nothing you can do to "change" NCRS to appeal to them will work and still have an NCRS for the vast majority of members to call home as they do today. Not sure why people want to, you really think it will be around in another 40 years? I like it the way it is, and every event I go to is packed and overflowing (wait till you see the huge crowd in Warwick this year), so where is the problem? I have no interest in what happens in 40 years.
Can someone wrap this thread up in a few words as to what is wrong with the NCRS. After reading all these posts I honestly do not know. Sure there a few guys that are **** about their car not winning a certain award but that would be a problem with any club. As for me, I would just like to see a bigger restorer magazine every month but it's not going to happen. Mr administer can you remove my name off this post.
If you mean me then you're wrong. I don't like being treated differently than someone else in the same situation, the level of award is a tangential issue.
I'm so pizzed I'm judging at the NCRS meet at Crystal River on the 14th...
can not change an organization from the outside", FTF, you are on the inside(judging)...go get em'. FTF, no one said the world was going to always be fair. This is not to infer that you were not justified in questioning judging irregularities, I think you were. From your obvious interest in all of this, and your desire for a level playing field, I am sure you make a good judge. Have fun.
Can someone wrap this thread up in a few words as to what is wrong with the NCRS. After reading all these posts I honestly do not know. Sure there a few guys that are **** about their car not winning a certain award but that would be a problem with any club. As for me, I would just like to see a bigger restorer magazine every month but it's not going to happen. Mr administer can you remove my name off this post.
You can do that in the email link the lower link will remove you off the thread .
Porsche Club of America has a very very small rulebook. At the national level in the preservation class they spend approximately 15 minutes on judging.
The car that won first place in the Preservation class this past year had the entire front pan replaced and the car had been repainted. The operational test in Preservation class is that the car must be driven onto the show field. No gauges or lights are checked.
The only real check is that the owner tells the judging team the car has been preserved. No one actually looks to see that is actually the case.
Is this where we want to go? No real rules and no real judges? It works for the Porsche community.
Take a look at Bloomington Gold survivor judging.
If I remember correctly,4 judging categories and you have to pass a percentage of each category.to get a survivor award.
Saw a 58 fuel injected car a few years ago, wrong block stamp, PASSED JUST FINE.......
Take a look at Bloomington Gold survivor judging.
If I remember correctly,4 judging categories and you have to pass a percentage of each category.to get a survivor award.
Saw a 58 fuel injected car a few years ago, wrong block stamp, PASSED JUST FINE.......
And now it only cost $550.00 to be judged
The whole thing is ridiculous. Really. I respect original cars, but stand back and think of what goes on. Its sick. Ive done it. I spent alot of time fretting over a judging. The costs are staggering to get to "that level"
And I regret doing it. Man was I dumb. Stamp pads, trim tags....who cares? Theyre both reproduced. The fakers stay one step ahead of the " experts" if your life revolves around that crap youre missing a whole lot of car fun. I promise.
I am no expert on NCRS but have been a member for the time period I have owned a Corvette. The first show I attended was in Charlotte last year. What I found was an assembly of knowledge by individuals who are truly interested in Corvettes and their history. The dynamics of financial aspects of any organization can be somewhat challenging at times. Unfortunately, life and people can just not be fair at times. Greed and self interest can cloud any business plan. What is the future of NCRS? I believe the past is a barometer for the future. With regard to NCRS, the mission has been and seems to continue to be the car as it was. I think there will continue to be interest in America's sports car and who better to help hobbyists than NCRS?
The whole thing is ridiculous. Really. I respect original cars, but stand back and think of what goes on. Its sick. Ive done it. I spent alot of time fretting over a judging. The costs are staggering to get to "that level"
And I regret doing it. Man was I dumb. Stamp pads, trim tags....who cares? Theyre both reproduced. The fakers stay one step ahead of the " experts" if your life revolves around that crap youre missing a whole lot of car fun. I promise.
The ridiculous part I agree with, but not so much about the costs necessarily.
If someone has a truly all original car, the only money spent along the way is the organization's entry fees and travel related costs. These costs can be considerable, depending on how far the owner has to travel of course. Where I'm going is, there's no spending on a real original example, it is what it is. Now for a restored car, it's an entirely different story. Lots of money for the "correct" parts, adds to the expense and can become a huge "investment"....
Even with a car that has good bones and is largely original, you can rip through hard-earned funds like Sherman marching through Atlanta...prepping for regional/national judging.
As I said I was into my '63 for over 2Gs getting it ready AND then correcting judged items after the regional. But, consider, most of these are one time expenses and you'll have a better, more correct, and, more valuable (IMO) car at the end of the day.
I said a truly original car. Your car was NOT that, as described in my post. Most $$$ I spent on was simple green and labor time cleaning, starting at the chapter level through 5 Star Bowtie.
Now, deduct the college education I received about Corvettes and I'm ahead!
Well then I deleted my horrifically offensive post about my POS, not, "truly" original car.
You should judge 63s; your right in line with the national team leader's attitude....
You misunderstood my post....
I'll repeat, just for you. A car that is all original, doesn't have to have a lot of money spent to find or locate expensive "real" parts. Your POS as you describe (not my words) must have had some valuable parts MIA, right?
Good thing I quoted your words.....It doesn't HAVE to cost a lot in all cases. Most yes, but, this is "Restoring and Preservation".
Last edited by Don Rickles; 05-02-2016 at 12:22 PM.
Reason: sp
The whole thing is ridiculous. Really. I respect original cars, but stand back and think of what goes on. Its sick. Ive done it. I spent alot of time fretting over a judging. The costs are staggering to get to "that level"
And I regret doing it. Man was I dumb. Stamp pads, trim tags....who cares? Theyre both reproduced. The fakers stay one step ahead of the " experts" if your life revolves around that crap youre missing a whole lot of car fun. I promise.
I have a lot of fun doing it, not sure what fun I'm missing. The costs are certainly under my control. Want to spend some money - try any form of competitive racing.
The ridiculous part I agree with, but not so much about the costs necessarily.
If someone has a truly all original car, the only money spent along the way is the organization's entry fees and travel related costs. These costs can be considerable, depending on how far the owner has to travel of course. Where I'm going is, there's no spending on a real original example, it is what it is. Now for a restored car, it's an entirely different story. Lots of money for the "correct" parts, adds to the expense and can become a huge "investment"....
As they say "every hobby is expensive"....
True, the Bowtie candidate I have has of course been almost zero cost since purchase, as you really can't (and shouldn't) touch and replace anything. But hauling it around for judging will be expensive (the road is long and hard for all those meets up through the National, the only place for Bowtie judging), just as for the flight cars, but at least I don't have to pay $1000 for an air filter element or a wing nut for the air cleaner......
04-30-2016, 01:20 PM
