wsaugenstein

Dr. Good's Elixir gets rid of "nostalgia" according to the sign.
So if we take it, we'll all want to sell our Vettes.
And I'm sure Dr. Good will be right there to offer us "cash money" on the spot.
A little discounted, of course, or maybe he'll pay in bottles of his Elixir.

abdo

Years ago I used to put lead substitute in both my '57 and '61 thinking it was needed. I found myself changing the spark plugs about every other year due to fouling. When I quit using it, the spark plugs did not need to be changed for many years.
I don't know if the lead substitute was the cause. All I know is that my problem went away when I stopped using it.

Powershift

Yes, it was the lead substitute. Most of these "substitute" products are really terrible. Use the real thing (TEL) or nothing at all.

Larry

ByByeAmericanPie

I don't really think that there is enough objective evidence either way to make a reliable judgement. In light of that, there are just unsubstantiated opinions.

Powershift

I can substantiate what I wrote........as I personally used a few lead substitutes in the late 1970's and saw first-hand the results on the spark plugs. Quit using and plugs returned to normal color and wear.

Granted that was 30 years ago, but the products I used are still available. I won't use them again. We have also learned thru first-hand experience that lead is not needed for valve wear/recession in these weekend type cars.

Now regarding using actual TEL to boost octane (Octane Supreme 130) I can also talk about that with some authority, as I was a Production Engineer in one of the three USA companies that produced TEL for gasoline during the 1970's. I have seen it and made it and have kept up with the history of its phaseout, since a number of my friends were affected by this regulation. Let me know if questions.

Larry

cv67

id like to hear more about your know how on it have used it

True 11.5:1 motor on the street

With our lousy Ca pump 91 33-34 deg is pushing it. With the Octane Suprememe I can comfortably run 36. Fortunately have nice combustion chambers can most likely get by without it but the car is so loud if I ever heard it rattle it would be over anyways. Just read the ground strap and porcelain.

There used to be Unocal stations that sold 100 unleaded all but gone far as I know.

Powershift

I worked for Houston Chemical Company in Beaumont, Texas (part of PPG Industries). The other TEL companies were Dupont in Delaware or New Jersey and Ethyl in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

TEL was not sold by itself but as a blend called TEF or as a blend called MAF. This included the needed scavengers etc to keep the burned lead from plating out on the piston tops and heads and valves.

Octane Supreme130 was initially introduced as Lead Supreme and sold my a guy in Georgia (Stone Oil Company). He told me he was a trucker but bought up some of the organic lead inventory to later sell and make money for his retirement. But he got into trouble with the Federal Government and the company went away. Later his inventory showed up at Kemco Company in Utah. Not certain about the current mix being sold by Wild Bill and others. Need to do some more research to get the full story.

The TEL for OS130 is either coming from Europe or China. There was only one TEL producer in England, who was supplying the aviation industry and probably the speciality race fuel guys. I believe the plant is England may now be closed.

Anyway, I still have a lot of files and info on both production and blending, so let me know if more questions. When added to unleaded gasoline there is a significant increase in octane, but additional octane increase drops off pretty quickly as more TEL is added. So there is a practical upper limit for addition. Beyond this point, no benefit is achieved and (bad) side issues can crop up. I can check my files for details/specifics on this if you want. I can't remember it all anymore.

Larry

Frankie the Fink

?? There is a ton of empirical evidence of folks on here (and plenty elsewhere) driving 100,000s of miles with no ill effects sitting behind original engines with no additives. These are engines in original trim and no Hot Rod Harry mods and not cars towing trailers, raced regularly, or, run at constant high RPM.

If some want to spend money on these mental placebos then its their money...

As an alternative as most know, I offer my 'feel good' subscription email service to tell you your car is OK each week for a small fee and you don't have to leave the house to buy any products

65tripleblack

The PRACTICAL upper limit of Pump Octane Number is about 97-98 if you start with 93 PON high test. Beyond that it's cheaper to buy avgas or race gas.

I used this stuff to cover an engine problem that I had some years ago and it did help. Podell and wild Bill still sell it, at least last time I looked a couple years ago. I bought mine from Kemco.

http://www.hellotrade.com/kemco-industries/

This is REAL TEL and the only additive that is effective. All the other products are mostly kerosene and on no value, at all.

wsaugenstein

When I'm on a trip and can't get 100LL (aircraft gas), I add 1/2 can (1/2 qt. = 16 oz.) of OS130 when I fill up to raise the octane, and this seems to work well. Does that sound reasonable? Too much? Too little?
By the way, for a frame of reference, I usually do 65-70 mph on the highway, but often go though the gears when I get a chance to over 100 mph, and I get no pinging or other problems.

Powershift

I think you already have the answer you need. If it works, go with it.

According to OS130 published info, 1 oz OS130 per gallon of gas (approx 16 oz for a fill-up on our C2 tanks) provides 0.17 grams of Pb lead per gallon of gas. They say this increases the gasoline octane by 2 points. My info shows it probably will require 2X this (0.4 grams of lead per gallon) to get the 2 point increase, but this can vary with the quality and composition of the gasoline. Some gasolines and octane levels show a bigger octane kick than others with TEL addition. I think OS130 is being somewhat optimistic in their claims. But a 2 point increase is probably all you need. I know my 327/350 HP car will run okay on 93 octane premium but has some issues at 91 octane.

As a point of comparison, back in the day (say around 1970), the amount of TEL (as TEF/MAF) added was in the range of 2.4 grams of lead per gallon of gasoline, which raised the octane level about 6-8 points. The MAXIMUM that was established by the oil companies was 2X this amount.............so some premiums or racing fuels could use up to this higher level....but probably few did this.

As you probably already know, OS130 is currently blended with toluene, which has a PON octane number of around 114. This helps as well by slightly increasing the octane of the pump gasoline. Of course the toluene also removes many automotive paints...........especially lacquer.............so don't spill it on the car.

Larry

mrtexas

"I worked for Houston Chemical Company in Beaumont, Texas (part of PPG Industries). The other TEL companies were Dupont in Delaware or New Jersey and Ethyl in Baton Rouge, Louisiana."

I worked across the fence at the XOM Beaumont refinery your biggest customer or was it Ethyl Co? Were you the salesman I used to talk to back in the late 70s leaded gasoline days?

You might update your article about gasoline. For many years now most gasoline components are now much more stable than in years past. Gasoline is now hydrotreated to remove sulfur down to 10ppm or so and as a result of that the formerly unstable unsaturated compounds in gasoline are saturated and stabilized as well. Ethanol dissolves in gasoline but is weakly dissolved as it is a polar compound and gasoline is a non-polar mixture. Whether a liquid is polar or not is what causes some things like water which is highly polar to not dissolve in gasoline which is non-polar. It won't settle in the bottom of the tank until it absorbs water. The problem of lighter components of gasoline evaporating is also much reduced. There is no butane in gasoline in the summer and the vapor pressure of summer gasoline is down from 10+psi to 6 psi.
I spent 31 years as a chemical engineer in a refinery with many years specializing in gasoline blending.

DansYellow66

I usually add just less than a quarter bottle of Octane 130 to a tank and that typically seems to take care of any issues. I have a stock 440 in a heavy GTX with auto that just can't quite make it on 93 unleaded unless the timing is retarded to where it stumbles. A quarter bottle of 130 takes care of the pinging and I can run 36 degrees total just fine. Unlike the stuff bought at Walmart that may raise octane a couple tenths at most, this stuff will raise it by whole points. Nasty stuff though - take care to keep it off the paint and your skin. Not supposed to be legal for over the road use but I'm sure aviation fuel isn't either.

mrtexas

PON of 97-98 is not realistic. There are only two components in a typical complex refinery that have octanes in the 90s, alkylate(90-92 or so) and platinum reformate(95-102). Reformate is heavy and must be blended down to make it lighter with low octane components. My refinery sometimes ran the heavy naphtha platinum reformers at 104 octane but that is not typical. Most refineries don't split their naphtha into light and heavy before reforming. Refineries now are fractionating out the 100+ octane from gasoline to get the benzene out of it as required by EPA. Most common 100+ octane chemicals are xylenes, benzene and toluene.

Powershift

" I worked across the fence at the XOM Beaumont refinery your biggest customer or was it Ethyl Co? Were you the salesman I used to talk to back in the late 70s leaded gasoline days? " MR TEXAS.

Yes Mobil Refinery was a BIG customer of ours. I can still remember the tank cars and rail spur that was used.

I was in both Process Engineering and in Production during this time. I left in 1974 after the Clean Air Act created the "death knell" for the alkyl lead industry. I was one of the last "younger engineers" to leave. Still had many friends there. Went to work for Union Carbide in West Virginia.

Had a lot of good times in Beaumont in these early years. Used a few of the straight stretches of the Mobil-Houston Chemical shared road to test out various revisions to my 1965 Plymouth and my 1969 AMX. No-one around to bother me.

Larry