ptjsk

Now that our '62 is back on the road, I have a quick question for the hot-rodders/suspension gurus.

During my rebuild, I replaced the ZZ4 motor with a custom built roller motor, complete with Dart aluminum heads as well as other high performance items.

Additionally, I placed a 4 link, coil over springs in the rear, and of course I removed the leaf springs as well.

So far, this new motor seems much more powerful then the old ZZ4 motor. In addition to that the 4 link definitely hooks up much better then the old stuff.

Although I haven't yet gotten carried away, I have "jumped" on it a few times. Mainly while in second gear.

What I'm finding is that when it hooks up and pulls, it feels like the front end is coming up and stressing/maxing out the front shocks. They are nothing out of the ordinary, and it sure seems like they stretch out to the maximum extension in no time at all.

My question is what kind of shocks would work better in this situation? I feel like I need something that has much more control during "extension" of the shock. I'm anxious to see what you guys would be recommending for a front shock.

Also, the front suspension is of stock configuration. All new and rebuilt, but still the old standard style that came on the car.

Thanks,

Pat

Plasticman

QA1 Double Adjustable Shocks would be my first choice (if they make them for our Vettes).

Truly independent compression and rebound adjustment
18 positions of rebound on one **** and 18 positions of compression on the other ****, providing 324 valving combinations
One shock allows for the ultimate in fine-tuning for any application

https://www.qa1.net/

http://www.summitracing.com/search/b...rder=Ascending

I am running ancient Gabrial Striders (3 way adjustable), and if I ever need new shocks, would look into the above. Adjustability opens up many more ride and handling options, and the capability to tune the suspension for your unique situation.

Plasticman

GTOguy

Back in the day, 90/10 shocks were used. They were valved so that they had almost no resistance coming up, but would soften the blow when you touched back down. In other words, they were designed to let the car lift in front as fast as possible, to plant weight on the rear tires. In addition, sway bars were loosened or removed, and front axles were raised. It seems to me your car is already lifting in front pretty well but you don't want it to. The less it lifts, the less weight transfer, and, ultimately, you will loose traction. Spinnin'ain't winnin'!

63 340HP

Yes. The front suspension lift sounds like 90/10 shocks for drag racing.

If the goal is drag racing, and you don't mind the slow settling time when twisting corners, then the shocks may fit the application. If you want more neutral manners, with the shock slowing rise as well as fall, then replacements will help (good C1 spec shocks or adjustable).

cv67

What is the rear suspension doing when this is happening?
Squatting or lifting?

x2 on getting something more modern adj shock
90/10s look cool in launch pics they are miserable to drive esp in a hard stop

cardo0

Well I really wish my vette had that problem with the front end lifting.

All I can say is congrats on a nice retro build.

ptjsk

I think it's actually squatting a little. It seems that it hooks up real well, but the front just seems looser than hell to me. Almost feels like there are no shocks at all (on the up-lift).

Definitely leaning toward some type of adjustable. Summit carries Ride Tech that should fit my application. Also, need to look up Viking and QA1's as well.

Thanks for the responses guys!

Pat

0Rodney@ridetech

Pat, If you have steel body shocks on the front now, it's hard telling what the shock valving is. Some of the shocks on the market aren't much, but will dampen the suspension enough to keep the average consumer happy. I wouldn't consider to many people in our industry as average. I see that you have been looking at our shocks at Summit. We do a Fixed valving and a Single Adjustable shock for the front of your Corvette, both being bolt-in. Our Smooth Body line is a 1 1/2" Monotube shock which has a larger piston than 2" Twintube shocks. Larger Piston = better control. They also come with 1,000,001 mile warranty, not that you will need it. I am confident that you will be happy with them off the shelf, but if not, we can valve them to your liking. I would lean toward the Single Adjustable (HQ Series) on your build, especially since you are already fighting a shock valving issue. The Single Adjustable will allow you to dial in the shock to your liking. If the front suspension is modified, it would be a good idea to measure the shock at ride height to size up the correct length. If you have any questions, let me know.
Rodney

GTOguy

Pat, I used to have a GTO that had your same 'problem'. Basically, it was launching so hard it was starting to pull the front wheels, which gave it a 'loosey goosey' feeling and little steering control on a hard launch. Thank God it tracked straight! My feeling is that you have so much power at this point, you are unloading the front end. Hell, in first gear you may be able to yank the wheels completely off the tarmac. The harder the car lifts in the front, the more leverage/weight it applies to keep the rear tires planted. Like a big lever. You're probably going to get used to it....or add a wheelie bar!

56early

Your power is where you want it on the rear wheels if you are doing a quarter mile at a time. Your front end is lifting and your rear is laying down . if that's not what you want I would be looking at the rear suspension and stiffening that and lowering the suspension so the weight transfer is a bit more equal . And a little trick if your front end is airborne put a piece of surgical white tape on your steering wheel center top so you know how to compensate when it comes down. Respect the power!!!!

TCracingCA

Set those up to get the right hookup and run a normal high quality shock in the conventional ranges for the front for safety, because I don't think you were wanting a wheelie machine! All of the adjustability in the world isn't going to help you if you are up in the air and falling hard!

0Rodney@ridetech

What shocks and spring rate are you running in the rear?

Roger O'Dell

If it's just coming up, answered above. BUT if the wheels are leaving the ground you need to put retaining strap/cable to keep suspension in max extend area and not damage shocks

cbernhardt

Is you 4 link adjustable? Perhaps you could change the roll center to decrease front end lift.

vetrod62

Question for the old school hot-rodders.

Front shocks for street racers back in the mid 60s were not even thought about, too much money for so little performance when you were making $2 an hour. Fast forward to today. Front end rise today means any motion up takes away from forward motion. Meaning hundreds or thousands of a second loss in ET. Meaningless to those who run their cars on this forum.

As for damage to the shocks from lifting too fast, There is a bump stop in each shock. I doubt your front end lift is hurting anything. At the track with slicks I pull the wheels every time in first and second, once in third. My front shocks ?? I do not know, they were in the car when I bought many years ago. My upper a-frame rubber bump stops, long destroyed. So what.

With the same drag tires on the street, It will never lift the wheels, traction is not there as it is at the track.

If your rear end is squatting, your instant center is off. The rear end should be rising to give the car more traction. In fact, the whole car should be rising. This could be one of the reasons you feel the front rising more than it should. If you are comparing the stock C1 rear suspension (especially with binding Traction Masters) , of course the the car is going to hook up better.

ptjsk

Thanks for all the response(s) from all of you!

I knew many of you would have much more information/experience then I do.

I really don't think the car has enough power to lift the front wheels off the ground, but it definitely has enough power to stretch out the front shocks, especially when I don't feel resistance. This should be repairable with double action valve adjustment.

Additionally, I need to get in a lot more driving activity as well as a lot more adjusting to help me rein in my perceived problem.

It would help me to get to an old airport, or another large flat asphalt area so I can have somebody record the car as it looks from the outside.

A recording would also help with truly identifying what the car is doing under hard acceleration. I really don't have the necessary qualifications, nor the skill to provide and/or convey truly accurate dynamics of how the car is reacting. And more importantly what adjustments should need to be made.

But I do know that there's absolutely no resistance at all when the car hooks up and the front shocks feel like they are operating in the viscosity of water instead of hydraulics.

Oh, and I also know that it sure feels like a lot of fun!

Thanks again Guys!

Pat

Roger O'Dell

Well if It's not lifting the front you won't need the straps, And I disagree about racer not paying atten to shocks, While I was going through my last ownership of a drag car, and even though I thought I knew a lot my crew Gene Adams & Don Enriques added to my learning experence. In my early days going to lions, I was in kindergarden. And being a good friend of Dale Armstrong (I hope) . Nothing is to be assumed or left untouched.Oh and instant center Got that when Chris Alston back halfed my 57. But a real enlightning was Polar Moment on enertia from Don Long (chassis builder). Hope you enjoy your hot rod. Me I'm old and into air cond, auto trans, good stereo.

vetrod62

Ahhh, what is your beef??? Certainly you are referring to me. Please explain to me how the OPs thread "Question for the old school hot-rodders" would improve racing with better front shocks back in the 60s, when most Hot-rodders raced on the street with no money for engine building.

Secondly, As I fast forwarded to the present, some of us " Old school hot-rodders " still race. I am a racer, over 1000 street races for money. Now, mostly at the track for fun. I have 3 C1 vettes that I build and race. I do it for fun and to beat my friends. What do you do??

So, how would double/single adjustable shocks help me at the track with my first and second gear wheel stands or ET?? As you said " I disagree about racer not paying atten to shocks " . Well I do just that and it works for me.

All I know is that when I race, everyone runs to the fence to see me, any one else, they don't go.

Ok, so you know Instant center and inertia, big deal, it is not a national secret.

TCracingCA

Just because the car is going to handle on the street. I think the typical drag setup is not good for driving it around!

In drag racing you tune your launch in the rear first to get best traction without tire slippage, bounce or chatter etc! You basically try to stiffen up the spring to the point where you don't lose good traction! Then in the front you like soft springs and lighter shock settings to get a quick reaction purposely wanting the front to rise quickly to induce weight transfer toward the back!
Is this good on the street, not really! In road racing you run heavier springs all around to prevent weight transfer! But there usually is an inherent difference based on design difference front and rear! Hooking up out of a turn (applying the gas) and wanting it to hook up, but not in a way where the weight transfer affects front traction!

I recommended starting in the back and first need to know whether you are lightly sprung and soft shock set at the back or the opposite! We get the back to give you your traction without the drag race conventional gymnastic of the front! If you still have front end issues, fast and excessive front end lift, you naturally have to correct that! And keep chasing your rear traction with your settings!

For your car for the spirit, I think you probably want some weight transfer and lifting for ""show"" the ""experience"" but you should get the back set first to where when the front rises, the weight transfer gives you the best traction, but your front is still within your control! In other words dial in the rear traction without the lift first, then add some lift with lighter front settings! You may lose the traction in the back with some lift, and might have to soften the rear!

Ex street racer out! I hope I didn't confuse everyone!

But if you want a typical education on just pure drag suspension setups, I think those are dangerous on the street, but racing junk.com would have the theory! Just type in drag tuning! But I don't think that is good for you! A lot of drag race guys on here! They know their stuff, but you need to drive it on the highway!!!

Bragging a little, but I have won my share of street drags using road race setups, while guys where maximizing that rear bite, looking up at the sky!!! They may hole me, but I am on the ground and in control and can modulate my throttle in a way as to not be worried about light front tire contact! But I think you would want some drag characteristics knowing your style of car!