[C2] 5 Speed Conversion Review
#21
Race Director
I had a Keisler TKO 500 put in my 67 327/350 a few years ago. Like everyone says, the drop in cruising revs was wondrous. The thing I definitely didn't like was the clunky, notchy shifting feel. It was nowhere close to a Muncie in smoothness. I was hoping that this would go away with time, but the tranny lasted only a few weeks before it got stuck permanently in first gear due to some internal failure. Keisler sent me a replacement, but I sold it to someone else rather than repeat my mistake and had my Muncie rebuilt and put back in. This might have been a 1 in a thousand failure, but it happened to me so it was a 1:1 failure. Wonder if anyone else had a similar TKO 500 failure?
Also, the shifting on mine is fine, albeit different than the Muncie particularly on the 2 -3 upshift since with the 5 Spd the lever is center spring loaded. It has to be guided up to 3rd rather than the Muncie's ablility to be slammed against the linkage stops on a hard upshift.
Glenn
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (07-21-2016)
#22
Le Mans Master
Frank, My only suggestion would be to consider the grade of clutch and pressure plate with the kit. This transmission kit business is very price competitive. This week we're pulling the kit supplied clutch/pp and putting in new Centerforce Dual Friction matched clutch and PP. I loved the clutch feel before the conversion, smooth and uniform. What was provided works, but had I known what I had before the conversion we would have installed a Centerforce. This is such a great, long term upgrade, don't skimp on the what your foot feels for a couple hundred bucks. This change is not necessary, just personal for my driving pleasure. BTW, there may be other clutch assemblies better than Centerforce. It's just what I had and I liked it. Best wishes
Went with the Centerforce II Clutch. Also Since the GMPP ZZ502 was New the Flywheel was a Virgin along with the pilot bearing. I also Bought a new Throw out bearing and New Clutch release fork and pivot ball for the bell housing clutch fork.
Also one important factor is the surface mounting area of the bellhousing that the tranny contacts. Keisler suggested (Which I Had them do) was to have it machined flat and the center hole checked for centering done with a Dial Caliper.
This insures that the tranny is not cocked one way or the other and that it is centered into the pilot bearing and clutch.
This was done when the Vette was a Small Block. I still have that Bell housing as When I changed to the 502 I had to buy a BB Bell housing.
I will be bringing the Machined SB Bell Housing to Corvettes @ Carlisle for sale there.
If your interested in it let me know. If Not you can find a Machine shop that can check your's for true-Ness of the flat contact area and mounting circle and Hole centering. These instructions for doing that might be included in your new kit.
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (07-21-2016)
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (07-21-2016)
#24
Race Director
No such problems with mine, Lou.
Also, the shifting on mine is fine, albeit different than the Muncie particularly on the 2 -3 upshift since with the 5 Spd the lever is center spring loaded. It has to be guided up to 3rd rather than the Muncie's ablility to be slammed against the linkage stops on a hard upshift.
Glenn
Also, the shifting on mine is fine, albeit different than the Muncie particularly on the 2 -3 upshift since with the 5 Spd the lever is center spring loaded. It has to be guided up to 3rd rather than the Muncie's ablility to be slammed against the linkage stops on a hard upshift.
Glenn
Since my TKO died of an internal failure early, I suspect that whatever problem it arrived with was manifested as clunky shifting from the get go. I had to "walk" the shift lever deliberately from gear to gear, no slamming into gears like a Muncie.
Lou
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (07-21-2016)
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (07-21-2016)
#26
Melting Slicks<br><img src="/forums/images/ranks/3k-4k.gif" border="0">
Member Since: Mar 2008
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado
Posts: 3,086
Received 1,946 Likes
on
704 Posts
2023 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Keisler is no longer in business, so you'll need to find a different vendor. There are several out there and you should get some good recommendations here.
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (07-21-2016)
#27
Racer
I'm sorry, I meant to say Tremac.
What's the ballpark $ of the conversion to the Tremac 5 speed?
Does the shifter look the same as stock?
Does the shifter fit into the stock console hole?
What's the ballpark $ of the conversion to the Tremac 5 speed?
Does the shifter look the same as stock?
Does the shifter fit into the stock console hole?
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (07-21-2016)
#28
Le Mans Master
Here's a Google page to help..
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...20transmission
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (07-21-2016)
#29
Team Owner
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (07-21-2016)
#30
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Feb 2015
Location: Huntsville AL & Hills of Southern TN
Posts: 2,290
Received 903 Likes
on
594 Posts
396, The SST C2 adapter for a C2 brings the shifter to same location as the Muncie in the stock console. We reused the Muncie boot. It looks stock. I studied the adapter designs and chose the SST/Kiesler. You want more details feel free to PM.
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (07-21-2016)
#31
Race Director
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (07-21-2016)
#32
Le Mans Master
On my '67 the Keisler (now SST) shifter fits perfectly into the stock console opening. The shifter looks exactly like stock. The only difference is that functionally the reverse lock out "t bar" is now for appearance only. The reverse lock out is now an internal spring detent in the shifter mechanism, with reverse now being at the bottom right in the pattern, below 5th.
with reverse now being at the bottom right in the pattern, below 5th.
Which I have ground a few pounds up....... a few times.... before learning how to work the pattern right...LMAO
5th to reverse...Not a Good thing and easy to do as a Novice
Last edited by Viet Nam Vett; 07-21-2016 at 02:56 PM.
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (07-21-2016)
#34
Le Mans Master
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (08-01-2016)
#35
Pro
I ordered the 5sp Tremec from SST on Wednesday. Should arrive next week.
I worked with Jeff at SST and he was one of the most helpful people I've ever worked with. He helped me calculate the rear end ratio and then was able to recommend the best choice for my set up. A kit that comes with everything is the only way to go.
Hope to get it installed in a couple of weeks.
I worked with Jeff at SST and he was one of the most helpful people I've ever worked with. He helped me calculate the rear end ratio and then was able to recommend the best choice for my set up. A kit that comes with everything is the only way to go.
Hope to get it installed in a couple of weeks.
The following users liked this post:
FrankWJones (08-01-2016)
#36
Advanced
Thread Starter
Just wanted to let you know that I have ordered the Tremec TKO 5 Speed from Silver Sport
Transmissions. I found Jeff Kaufman (844-609-8187) especially helpful in the process.
Very customer oriented. Volunteered to call the person that will do the installation to introduce himself and offer any tech support / help that Silver Sport can provide during the installation process. If you or anyone is considering a Tremec, I most definitely would recommend that you give them a call.
Lastly, I thank all of you once again for your help. Once I get this project completed, I will update you all further.
Transmissions. I found Jeff Kaufman (844-609-8187) especially helpful in the process.
Very customer oriented. Volunteered to call the person that will do the installation to introduce himself and offer any tech support / help that Silver Sport can provide during the installation process. If you or anyone is considering a Tremec, I most definitely would recommend that you give them a call.
Lastly, I thank all of you once again for your help. Once I get this project completed, I will update you all further.
#37
Le Mans Master
Just wanted to let you know that I have ordered the Tremec TKO 5 Speed from Silver Sport
Transmissions. I found Jeff Kaufman (844-609-8187) especially helpful in the process.
Very customer oriented. Volunteered to call the person that will do the installation to introduce himself and offer any tech support / help that Silver Sport can provide during the installation process. If you or anyone is considering a Tremec, I most definitely would recommend that you give them a call.
Lastly, I thank all of you once again for your help. Once I get this project completed, I will update you all further.
Transmissions. I found Jeff Kaufman (844-609-8187) especially helpful in the process.
Very customer oriented. Volunteered to call the person that will do the installation to introduce himself and offer any tech support / help that Silver Sport can provide during the installation process. If you or anyone is considering a Tremec, I most definitely would recommend that you give them a call.
Lastly, I thank all of you once again for your help. Once I get this project completed, I will update you all further.
Also: Be Careful when coming out of 5th to 4th...If you don't let the shifting loaded spring guide you ..you will tag reverse gear.
You will also note that it takes a little more force to shift it due to it being a top loaded gear selector system.
The old Stock shifter center point was on the side of the tranny. Which made the shifting stalk longer which added more leverage..
Good luck with your project.
#38
Advanced
Thread Starter
C2 5 Speed Conversion
Excellent!!! One important Note... Make sure you get familiar with the shifting on the 5 speed. The Tremec is spring loaded in Neutral position and when shifting it will guide you to select the next gear easily if you pull or push it in that direction ....Without trying to manually select the gear by yourself.
Also: Be Careful when coming out of 5th to 4th...If you don't let the shifting loaded spring guide you ..you will tag reverse gear.
You will also note that it takes a little more force to shift it due to it being a top loaded gear selector system.
The old Stock shifter center point was on the side of the tranny. Which made the shifting stalk longer which added more leverage..
Good luck with your project.
Also: Be Careful when coming out of 5th to 4th...If you don't let the shifting loaded spring guide you ..you will tag reverse gear.
You will also note that it takes a little more force to shift it due to it being a top loaded gear selector system.
The old Stock shifter center point was on the side of the tranny. Which made the shifting stalk longer which added more leverage..
Good luck with your project.
Frank
#39
Borgeson power steering
Glenn: I was interested in your post on the Tremec 5 spd which I recently installed during a frame off, but also caught your comments on the Borgeson steering which you rated 2nd only to the Tremec for improvements. I'm concerned about clearances on the steering box with my unknown brand of headers. Did you have enough clearance, or were you using stock manifolds?
Thanks in advance for "all" your comments concerning installing the Borgeson. Jim
Thanks in advance for "all" your comments concerning installing the Borgeson. Jim
#40
Race Director
Glenn: I was interested in your post on the Tremec 5 spd which I recently installed during a frame off, but also caught your comments on the Borgeson steering which you rated 2nd only to the Tremec for improvements. I'm concerned about clearances on the steering box with my unknown brand of headers. Did you have enough clearance, or were you using stock manifolds?
Thanks in advance for "all" your comments concerning installing the Borgeson. Jim
Thanks in advance for "all" your comments concerning installing the Borgeson. Jim
Hi Jim -
Good question and a valid concern. I have McJacks shorty headers, and the clearance was very tight between the box and the header. We had to grind some excess metal off the side of the box cover to get adequate clearance. It worked out OK with these tight "block hugger" style shorty headers (which connect to the stock exhaust pipe in the factory location), but if you have long tube headers I doubt there would be adequate room.
I almost considered reinstalling the stock 2 1/2" rams horn manifolds, but was able to make it work.
Good Luck!
Glenn
Last edited by tuxnharley; 08-11-2016 at 03:50 PM. Reason: added pictures