to restore race car or not
10-21-2016, 01:05 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
to restore race car or not
I am asking for opinions on possible restoring my 64 L76 to it's historical racing condition. The car is currently a driver in excellent condition nearly all original except engine block. The car was raced in the stock configuration and a constant winner. This was the first corvette driven by Stirling Moss around a racing course.
I would like to show the car & have it judged.
Do I put on original racing tires, brakes and lettering/ numbers to show or leave it as she sits as a beautiful driver to show.
Would the race configuration add value?
More info on the car on our web site.
www.littleredcorvette.org
Thanks for any input.
I would like to show the car & have it judged.
Do I put on original racing tires, brakes and lettering/ numbers to show or leave it as she sits as a beautiful driver to show.
Would the race configuration add value?
More info on the car on our web site.
www.littleredcorvette.org
Thanks for any input.
10-21-2016, 01:12 PM
#2
Team Owner
Member Since: Feb 2003
Location: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
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who is going to judge it? unless you have lots of log books and docs to prove its a winning race car and can trace it to the vin number on the car its just a used up well used car that was thrashed
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actionguru (10-21-2016)
10-21-2016, 01:29 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
I would have to agree with the above post. Unless you have definitive, incontrovertible documentation that this vehicle has a notable historical pedigree, the changes will be viewed in the marketplace as just some clone of ex-race car... and that is fine.. if someone likes the 'race look' (I am a firm believer that there are as many ways to enjoy this hobby as there are people.. and generally.. I find it all 'cool' si I have no 'dis' to making a car look like a race car that someone had a soft spot for or was a follower back in the day of that race team).
That said, my thinking from a perspective of being in a buyer's shoes is that all that 'dress up' detracts from what would otherwise have been a very nice driver, and reduces what I would pay for it.
Cheers - Jim
That said, my thinking from a perspective of being in a buyer's shoes is that all that 'dress up' detracts from what would otherwise have been a very nice driver, and reduces what I would pay for it.
Cheers - Jim
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actionguru (10-21-2016)
10-21-2016, 01:32 PM
#4
Drifting
Man that webpage is a mess to follow?? What exactly is the race history of the car?
Steve
10-21-2016, 02:36 PM
#5
Safety Car
The car has provenance. That's a big deal.
Restoring it to a race car is just fine. The problem with race cars is that you have to pick a specific race. In your case the car's most significant moment was when Stirling Moss drove the car. That's would seem to be the big moment.
As far as judging the car it might be possible. You really have two orgainizations. NCRS and Bloomington Gold.
Now - back to provenance. Can you document it? That's the key when it comes to value.
A documented provenance always adds value.
Richard Newton
Vintage Race Cars and the FIA
Restoring it to a race car is just fine. The problem with race cars is that you have to pick a specific race. In your case the car's most significant moment was when Stirling Moss drove the car. That's would seem to be the big moment.
As far as judging the car it might be possible. You really have two orgainizations. NCRS and Bloomington Gold.
Now - back to provenance. Can you document it? That's the key when it comes to value.
A documented provenance always adds value.
Richard Newton
Vintage Race Cars and the FIA
Last edited by rfn026; 10-21-2016 at 02:37 PM.
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actionguru (10-21-2016)
10-21-2016, 02:38 PM
#6
Instructor
Thread Starter
Car History
Overall winner of 1966 Player Pacific road race. Multiple 1st place finishes in hill climb, road race, gymnkana, etc. in Pacific Northwest 1965-66.
Original owner racer Laurie Craig was also grand prix crew for Carrol Shelby, Stirling Moss, Bonnier & others.
Car is documented by all previous owners, movies, TV series & personal interviews of Laurie Craig & Stirling Moss.
Web site is a blog. Jumps around because of that.
Documentation is in the Web site as well.
If interested you can find all the documentation there.
Only need opinion on having car judged by NCRS.
Original owner racer Laurie Craig was also grand prix crew for Carrol Shelby, Stirling Moss, Bonnier & others.
Car is documented by all previous owners, movies, TV series & personal interviews of Laurie Craig & Stirling Moss.
Web site is a blog. Jumps around because of that.
Documentation is in the Web site as well.
If interested you can find all the documentation there.
Only need opinion on having car judged by NCRS.
10-21-2016, 04:49 PM
#7
Team Owner
Member Since: Feb 2003
Location: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
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The big NCRS judging is for original cars. But they do have a class for race cars. But I have no clue on how that works. It would be best to ask on the NCRS forum. The other problem with having a race car it narrows down where and how you can drive it. A stock car can be enjoyed anytime (within reason). A race car is really only good on a track. That's hard to enjoy unless you live close to one
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actionguru (10-21-2016)
10-21-2016, 05:36 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2007
Location: Richmond Kentucky
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2022 Corvette of the Year Finalist -- Modified
2021 C2 of the Year Winner - Modified
2021 C1 of the Year Winner - Modified
2020 Corvette of the Year (stock)
C2 of Year Winner (stock) 2019
2017 C1 of the Year Finalist
Race car.................all the way. If it has race history, especially race history that can be documented, it deserves to retain that and allow people to see what it was like back in the day. Too many old race cars have been restored. I vote show it as a race car. The final choice is yours. Whatever your decision, enjoy it. 
cheers:
cheers:
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10-21-2016, 09:09 PM
#9
Racer
Race car.................all the way. If it has race history, especially race history that can be documented, it deserves to retain that and allow people to see what it was like back in the day. Too many old race cars have been restored. I vote show it as a race car. The final choice is yours. Whatever your decision, enjoy it. cheers:
cheers:
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actionguru (10-22-2016)
10-22-2016, 12:03 AM
#10
Race Director
Race car.................all the way. If it has race history, especially race history that can be documented, it deserves to retain that and allow people to see what it was like back in the day. Too many old race cars have been restored. I vote show it as a race car. The final choice is yours. Whatever your decision, enjoy it. cheers:
cheers:
Add me to that list too.
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actionguru (10-22-2016)
10-22-2016, 12:21 AM
#11
Team Owner
Member Since: Apr 2008
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Race car.................all the way. If it has race history, especially race history that can be documented, it deserves to retain that and allow people to see what it was like back in the day. Too many old race cars have been restored. I vote show it as a race car. The final choice is yours. Whatever your decision, enjoy it. cheers:
cheers:With documented provenance of a significant past, it would be a shame to return it to any other configuration, IMO.
It would also likely add monetary value more than restoring it to just another restored street stock Corvette. Cars with bona fide racing history are eligible for historical car racing events, which is often associated with spendy buyers.
Last edited by Easy Rhino; 10-22-2016 at 12:21 AM.
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actionguru (10-22-2016)
10-22-2016, 06:46 AM
#12
Team Owner
Member Since: Feb 2003
Location: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
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I would also say a regional spendy buyer who remembers the car when it was in its hey day. Someone from the other coast who never herd of those tracks most likely won't care.
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actionguru (10-22-2016)
10-22-2016, 07:06 AM
#13
Team Owner
The car has provenance. That's a big deal.
Restoring it to a race car is just fine. The problem with race cars is that you have to pick a specific race. In your case the car's most significant moment was when Stirling Moss drove the car. That's would seem to be the big moment.
As far as judging the car it might be possible. You really have two orgainizations. NCRS and Bloomington Gold.
Now - back to provenance. Can you document it? That's the key when it comes to value.
A documented provenance always adds value.
Richard Newton
Vintage Race Cars and the FIA
Restoring it to a race car is just fine. The problem with race cars is that you have to pick a specific race. In your case the car's most significant moment was when Stirling Moss drove the car. That's would seem to be the big moment.
As far as judging the car it might be possible. You really have two orgainizations. NCRS and Bloomington Gold.
Now - back to provenance. Can you document it? That's the key when it comes to value.
A documented provenance always adds value.
Richard Newton
Vintage Race Cars and the FIA
Your first line says the car has provenance then later on you ask if there is documentation. The first is unsubstantiated IMO without the second.
Without documentation it will be about like the two dozen Mickey Thompson split window coupes running about...
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rfn026 (10-22-2016)
10-22-2016, 08:31 AM
#14
Racer
I am asking for opinions on possible restoring my 64 L76 to it's historical racing condition. The car is currently a driver in excellent condition nearly all original except engine block. The car was raced in the stock configuration and a constant winner. This was the first corvette driven by Stirling Moss around a racing course.
I would like to show the car & have it judged.
Do I put on original racing tires, brakes and lettering/ numbers to show or leave it as she sits as a beautiful driver to show.
Would the race configuration add value?
More info on the car on our web site.
www.littleredcorvette.org
Thanks for any input.
I would like to show the car & have it judged.
Do I put on original racing tires, brakes and lettering/ numbers to show or leave it as she sits as a beautiful driver to show.
Would the race configuration add value?
More info on the car on our web site.
www.littleredcorvette.org
Thanks for any input.
And lastly...
Don't care about the money on resale. I'm not sure you have enough there to ask a significant price difference and expect to get a big race car premium. Just enjoy it and know you have a really neat car that legitimately deserves its vinyl logos and showcase board at the right events.
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actionguru (10-22-2016)
10-22-2016, 03:23 PM
#15
Safety Car
Frankie
There is false provenance and there is accurate documented provenance.
It gets a little confusing at times.
I sold a formula car one time. About five years later I encountered the car and a new history had been created for the car. The new history made the car twice as valuable has it had been with the old history.
I currently have an an old USAC car. At some point there was a dispute over payment and the guy that thought he got screwed set all the documentation on fire.
Race cars are very hard to document. I know.
Richard Newton
Historic Racing Images
There is false provenance and there is accurate documented provenance.
It gets a little confusing at times.
I sold a formula car one time. About five years later I encountered the car and a new history had been created for the car. The new history made the car twice as valuable has it had been with the old history.
I currently have an an old USAC car. At some point there was a dispute over payment and the guy that thought he got screwed set all the documentation on fire.
Race cars are very hard to document. I know.
Richard Newton
Historic Racing Images
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10-22-2016, 03:39 PM
#16
Team Owner
I am rarely participating on the forum these days! I run into too many investor types who claim they are enthusiasts! The last being the phony 1966 HD race car and an Owner who fabricated a glorious story and got it endorsed by the """paid""" so called experts like the Registry crowd! A story stretched completely from just a few pieces of bad information! I am about as well liked in the Corvette world as Trump is in Politics!
Are you going to drive or worship it?
Mine were bought with race car stuff!
J-56 brake system, Magnesium Modular rims, flares, gussets welded chassis, spoiler, solid core plug wires, hooker headers, quick pit long wheel studs, solid bushings, heim links, HD rear cover, actually L88 HD drivetrain, Race steering wheel and quick disconnect, battery cut off, minimum interior, race bucket seats, Traco oil control pieces, the engine build, roll cage and on and on! And I still have it all!
I hate the cars that use modern bought parts to replicate a race car! Absolutely hate them! With some of these guys, it is like the same person is giving them the list of stuff to buy! That is probably what is happening!
The Players race would be the high end event! Gymkhana had nothing to do with that! Don't feel like looking it all up, but Solo I or what was Time Trialing was not SCCA track racing, but they held the Solo I and time trials on or at the race tracks! I don't know those hill climbs, but looked like quite a turn out! I do recall some coverage of NW region in Corvette News and the SCCA mags I have! Not a region that got a whole lot of press like other regions! I could probably find some of the appearances of your early Owner and draw a conclusion on the basic chain of progression in the career and scope of what the car was entered in! That is just a statement, and not an offer to do it! In the earliest year and in your picture, the car does look like a basically stock Corvette, most were that early- with some decals and hub caps removed! The car probably got more developed from the Slalom stuff! Few cars did both true track events and slalom (gymkhana) at the same time! Usually cars got developed from the parking lots to the track or were retired from the track and played with at slaloms! Usually the top slalom cars got mods that won't be legal on the SCCA track events in BP or AP! But then were allowed in under creative classifications like ASR mod class and the evolution to GT-1 which was the Production based car killer, going to tube framing and weight/engine size rules!
Are you going to drive or worship it?
Mine were bought with race car stuff!
J-56 brake system, Magnesium Modular rims, flares, gussets welded chassis, spoiler, solid core plug wires, hooker headers, quick pit long wheel studs, solid bushings, heim links, HD rear cover, actually L88 HD drivetrain, Race steering wheel and quick disconnect, battery cut off, minimum interior, race bucket seats, Traco oil control pieces, the engine build, roll cage and on and on! And I still have it all!
I hate the cars that use modern bought parts to replicate a race car! Absolutely hate them! With some of these guys, it is like the same person is giving them the list of stuff to buy! That is probably what is happening!
The Players race would be the high end event! Gymkhana had nothing to do with that! Don't feel like looking it all up, but Solo I or what was Time Trialing was not SCCA track racing, but they held the Solo I and time trials on or at the race tracks! I don't know those hill climbs, but looked like quite a turn out! I do recall some coverage of NW region in Corvette News and the SCCA mags I have! Not a region that got a whole lot of press like other regions! I could probably find some of the appearances of your early Owner and draw a conclusion on the basic chain of progression in the career and scope of what the car was entered in! That is just a statement, and not an offer to do it! In the earliest year and in your picture, the car does look like a basically stock Corvette, most were that early- with some decals and hub caps removed! The car probably got more developed from the Slalom stuff! Few cars did both true track events and slalom (gymkhana) at the same time! Usually cars got developed from the parking lots to the track or were retired from the track and played with at slaloms! Usually the top slalom cars got mods that won't be legal on the SCCA track events in BP or AP! But then were allowed in under creative classifications like ASR mod class and the evolution to GT-1 which was the Production based car killer, going to tube framing and weight/engine size rules!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 10-22-2016 at 04:24 PM.
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actionguru (10-22-2016)
10-22-2016, 04:57 PM
#17
Drifting
Overall winner of 1966 Player Pacific road race. Multiple 1st place finishes in hill climb, road race, gymnkana, etc. in Pacific Northwest 1965-66.
Original owner racer Laurie Craig was also grand prix crew for Carrol Shelby, Stirling Moss, Bonnier & others.
Car is documented by all previous owners, movies, TV series & personal interviews of Laurie Craig & Stirling Moss.
Web site is a blog. Jumps around because of that.
Documentation is in the Web site as well.
If interested you can find all the documentation there.
Only need opinion on having car judged by NCRS.
Original owner racer Laurie Craig was also grand prix crew for Carrol Shelby, Stirling Moss, Bonnier & others.
Car is documented by all previous owners, movies, TV series & personal interviews of Laurie Craig & Stirling Moss.
Web site is a blog. Jumps around because of that.
Documentation is in the Web site as well.
If interested you can find all the documentation there.
Only need opinion on having car judged by NCRS.
As for NCRS judging for this car the man to talk to is Jim Gessner. He has his own site http://www.vettefinderjim.com and is part of the Registry of Corvette Race Cars site too. He is at the DFW Frisco NCRS meet this weekend, actually probably right now. Hook up with Jim and he can tell you all you need to know. Good luck.
Steve
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actionguru (10-22-2016)
10-22-2016, 11:14 PM
#18
Team Owner
PS Moss drove Corvettes previously! What I don't like about these kind of claimed stories! He piloted a car of Fitch as a guest around Sebring and I think for a course record in class! And Zora let him take the Corvette SS out! That is off the top of my head for you all to check! I can probably find something else in his very complex career!
So ya my car is so special, being the very first time the late great Stirling Moss saw a Corvette and had to get behind the wheel! My azz!!!!
So ya my car is so special, being the very first time the late great Stirling Moss saw a Corvette and had to get behind the wheel! My azz!!!!
10-23-2016, 07:01 AM
#19
Safety Car
TC - play nice now.
Every car has a history. The only question is about how significant that history is. What make s car significant?
I'm working with a few people now on this very question. Significance comes from a link to a particular event, or person. It all comes down to three criteria.
Associative Value to an Event: A car that is associated with an event that is important in history.
Associative Value to a Person – A car that is associated with a person significant in history
Design or Constructive Value: A car that is based on a unique design, or aesthetic value
Not all cars are significant.
I'm going to make the case that the Corvette in question here is significant because of it's association with Stirling Moss. However brief that association might have been,
How significant this car is can be debated but it does have something that millions of other Corvettes don't have.
Richard Newton
Every car has a history. The only question is about how significant that history is. What make s car significant?
I'm working with a few people now on this very question. Significance comes from a link to a particular event, or person. It all comes down to three criteria.
Associative Value to an Event: A car that is associated with an event that is important in history.
Associative Value to a Person – A car that is associated with a person significant in history
Design or Constructive Value: A car that is based on a unique design, or aesthetic value
Not all cars are significant.
I'm going to make the case that the Corvette in question here is significant because of it's association with Stirling Moss. However brief that association might have been,
How significant this car is can be debated but it does have something that millions of other Corvettes don't have.
Richard Newton
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actionguru (10-23-2016)
10-23-2016, 01:51 PM
#20
Instructor
Thread Starter
Meds
PS Moss drove Corvettes previously! What I don't like about these kind of claimed stories! He piloted a car of Fitch as a guest around Sebring and I think for a course record in class! And Zora let him take the Corvette SS out! That is off the top of my head for you all to check! I can probably find something else in his very complex career!
So ya my car is so special, being the very first time the late great Stirling Moss saw a Corvette and had to get behind the wheel! My azz!!!!
So ya my car is so special, being the very first time the late great Stirling Moss saw a Corvette and had to get behind the wheel! My azz!!!!
Asking for real opinions not bolderdash.
