roberts427

Talking documented real 435's. Looking for some thoughts on cars that have their KNOWN documented original engines, how much more of a value do they have. 5K 10K 20K 80K ?? Talking 67 435's HP. Thanks

bluzrocker

40-50k

SBR

Depends on the color, options etc. The more desirable the car, the higher the premium is for cars with no issues.

emccomas

I think $50K is a stretch.

I know of two people that paid that kind of money for the original 67 L88 engines for their cars.

One way to do this is see:

1. What known original 435 cars with original engines are selling for?
2. What known original 435 cars with NOM engines are selling for?
3. What is the delta?

And no, it is not quite that easy, because you have to compare apples to apples, or figure out how to adjust if you only have oranges to compare to apples.

ChattanoogaJSB

I don't know what the premium is- I would
guess $30k based on hanging around here a while. In reality, as someone posted recently- numbers matching used to mean a slightly used c2 a few years old hadn't been thrashed on. Now you often have no idea what a car has endured, original engine or not, when it's sitting pristine with fresh chalk marks all over. That begs the question- why roll the dice on paying a "whole other cars" worth for a set of numbers on a tiny pad? A pad that turns out to be faked all the time!

The Corvette p*ssing contest of mine is more rare than his-yours-theirs is tiresome. There are lots of excellent reasons to buy a c2- but aren't the best of them because of the ignition of your senses? The visceral sound of it firing up cold in the garage? The aura being wrapped in an era moving away from us - one where we made great things in our country and didn't receive their major assemblies in crates from overseas?

wow, I got off topic- God Bless America where we can buy and sell as the market will bear, but when the market is so wild for a numbers matching motor it starts to remind me of South Florida real estate.

To the OP- forgive me. I hope you buy an awesome 435 that really STIRS your SOUL!

SBR

I respectfully disagree with regards to a black or red car or one with great options. There is a real black with blue interior 435 convertible going to cross the block in a couple of weeks with Mecum. Real car, with a real motor and tags. They also have a real documented black with red 435 coupe but with a restamped motor. I would be willing to bet that the convertible will sell for more than twice what the coupe goes for and it has little to do with the fact that one is a coupe and the other is a convertible. I'm not going to comment whether I feel this is justified or not but it is what it is with regards to the high end super desirable cars.

Todd H.

I agree with SBR. The difference in value will vary depending on the desirability of the car. But perhaps a minimum difference could be best expressed in a percentage of difference in value for the same car with or without it's original engine, and I'm going to guess that would be at least 35%, but more on certain rare cars. That's for a REAL, documented ORIGINAL motor car. For some people, that's just what trips their trigger. There's nothing anymore wrong about that than there is for some to like C2s more than C1s. Unfortunately that has given rise to the counterfeit market, but there are still some real, provable original motor 435s. They're not all fakes. And we don't know if Robert is buying, selling, or neither.

emccomas

I was assuming "all other things being equal", one car is known original engine, then other is not.

So the other desirability of the car is almost a constant (I say almost) when calculating value.

So, lets throw a wrench into this equation.

One car has a known all original engine, the other car has a unknown but undetectable from original engine.

Let's face it, this is the real world we live in.

SBR

Don't know if throwing wrenches provides any value to the thread. That said, there is no exact formula or answer to the OPs question. It all comes down to what someone is willing to pay.

Todd H.

Generally the car with the KNOWN documented original engine, to use the OP's terminology, will still demand a premium. These cars do exist. Their rarity only adds to their value.

So much of this is useless hypothetical speculation, at least from me, because I'm not in the market. Difficult to predict what any given deep-pocketed individual is going to do on any given day in terms of what he or she will pay for any given car.

emccomas

Agreed, but how much of a premium.

I suspect that the premium is a percentage of the car's value, and not a absolute dollar value. That would also account for more desirable cars.

roberts427

So if a car has a documented original 435 with all sorts of options vs a car that has a documented original 435 with minimal options is the % of the increase the same.

tuxnharley

emccomas

Probably not.

With some effort we could put together an equation (what can I say, I AM a rocket scientist) that calculates the approximate value of a given car, plus the approximate increases for options, desirable colors, etc.

Realistically, the best info would be actual sales data that could be organized in a database.

Too much effort for too volatile of a market.

rsinor

Ed, the hardest part of that suggestion may be finding verifiable sales, so many of the real cars trade hands privately. The reserve auctions hammer cars sold that are not sold, or run reserve cars to the unrealistic reserve number and claim it was a real bid.

kenba

You hit the nail on the head. The only way that I would absolutely certain that the engine is the one that it left the factory with is if I bought it from the original owner & the engine has never been out of the Corvette with all the factory gaskets ETC with all factory paperwork. That said I don't see why that one piece of a Corvette has to be original factory stamped as long as the VIN/TRIM tags are real factory installed

Todd H.

Some people have been willing to pay extra for old Corvettes (and other collectable cars) that have their original engines for several decades. For those that think this is silly, at least the NOM Corvette they want should be cheaper than an OM car.

As Roy says, reliable price data from recent sales of OM '67 L71s is impossible to gather so that we might implement jv04's equation. But even if we could, what people have done in the recent past is not necessarily a good predictor of what they will do; even in the near future. What if that next buyer just has to have a green/green OM '67 L71 convt. with shoulder harness, and he/she doesn't care about anything else? What if it has to be a blue/black coupe with headrests? I don't think it breaks down easily so that we might assign even percentage values to options, though certain high demand rare color combos seem to draw a premium.

bb62

Clearly there is a large difference in potential pricing for such vehicles. There are few black/blue big blocks documented. There was that black/blue 400 HP convertible that sold for $600K a year or so ago. Green cars just don't sell for as much, perhaps because there are more of them in the market. There are a bunch of factors that can really drive the price up:
- OM versus NOM
- Color
- Restored versus "Survivor"
- Documented with iron clad history versus undocumented

I don't think options are a real big factor. For many cars, a high option car might lend to a higher transaction price. But for 435s, a low optioned car is likely to have lived a more interesting life.

emccomas

I concur Roy.

kenba

I would somewhat disagree. My 435 Maroon Conv. has J-56 brakes & real Side exhaust which I believe makes it worth more than a no option 435. I agree about most other options with the exception of L-89.