How many cars really have original documentation
12-01-2016, 03:41 PM
#21
Safety Car
How many cars really have the original documentation? If you look at cars over the last 50 or more years who had the hind sight to save the original documentation that came with the car when they bought it? You see all these cars at the Barrett Jackson Auction and Mecum Auction and at Pro Team that have all the original paper work from when it was bought new back in the day, do you think it is all REAL? I buy a new truck every year and I do not save the window stickers and the papers telling when I bought the truck or how much I paid for it. I throw that stuff away before I turn it in and get a new truck. I don't want some one knowing how much I paid for it or where I live. Do you really think all that paper work is real? I know some of it may be but there sure is a lot of cars and Corvettes advertised having original paperwork and history and documentation. I know you can get some copies from NCRS or other places but do you think they are all with the original paper work? It is easy to make new paper work look old, that is easier then making an old car look new. 
I've owned 94 Corvettes over the past 42 years. Only one had the original window sticker and protectoplate. Another one (62) had the original warranty book, and a 67 had the original dealer sale documents but no protectoplate. 7 of them (67-72) had the tank sticker.
12-01-2016, 03:51 PM
#22
Race Director
12-01-2016, 03:52 PM
#23
Safety Car
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Talk to anyone who ever worked at a used car lot and they will tell you one of the first things they did was clean the glove box out and throw everything away. Now think how many of these cars has spent time on a used car lot. Or had many owners who wher young and all they wanted was a fast car and could care less about anything less. I don't want to throw a percent out but I can bet you only 15% of the cars with papers are real.
12-01-2016, 04:25 PM
#24
Safety Car
I have absolutely everything for my 66. From pop, order invoice, dealer invoice, carbon copy of down payment, the original title, all the little stuff from radio tag to the little envelopes the license nuts came in. Mike McKay was very impressed at Carlisle and we got his celebrity choice award.
12-01-2016, 04:34 PM
#25
Le Mans Master
Do you mean Kevin?
I got nothin.
Two vettes, no paper.
I guess I'm just screwed.
I got nothin.
Two vettes, no paper.
I guess I'm just screwed.
12-01-2016, 04:52 PM
#26
Safety Car
12-01-2016, 05:08 PM
#27
Race Director
Not if your intent is to keep them and enjoy them rather than view it as an investment for the next owner!
I've got the opposite case - have the original documentation but it's NOM due to my own actions. I sometimes start to second guess myself for changing out the engine 45 years ago, but then I remember that having done that made it easy to decide to make the other mods over the years - Tremec 5 spd, Borgeson PS, etc.
Now it performs and drives better than when it was original, and I really don't GAS if it's "numbers matching" or not even tho it looks all original from the outside. It does what I want - makes for a fun driver!
You really need a sarcasm emoji!
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ptjsk (12-02-2016)
12-01-2016, 05:20 PM
#28
Le Mans Master
I know, my humor is so dry that it even fools me sometimes.
On that note, let me summarize.
You bought a perfect one owner 67 L79 with all the paper way back when it was about 4 years old, threw away the original paper, and the engine, then the tranny, probably the rear end, and then bastardized with a 5 speed and a jeep steering assembly.
Man, am I glad I'm not you.
I would never be able to sleep at night again, ever, after doing all that evil to an iconic mid year.
(looking for that emoji)
On that note, let me summarize.
You bought a perfect one owner 67 L79 with all the paper way back when it was about 4 years old, threw away the original paper, and the engine, then the tranny, probably the rear end, and then bastardized with a 5 speed and a jeep steering assembly.
Man, am I glad I'm not you.
I would never be able to sleep at night again, ever, after doing all that evil to an iconic mid year.
(looking for that emoji)
12-01-2016, 05:37 PM
#29
Race Director
I know, my humor is so dry that it even fools me sometimes.
On that note, let me summarize.
You bought a perfect one owner 67 L79 with all the paper way back when it was about 4 years old, threw away the original paper, and the engine, then the tranny, probably the rear end, and then bastardized with a 5 speed and a jeep steering assembly.
Man, am I glad I'm not you.
I would never be able to sleep at night again, ever, after doing all that evil to an iconic mid year.
(looking for that emoji)
On that note, let me summarize.
You bought a perfect one owner 67 L79 with all the paper way back when it was about 4 years old, threw away the original paper, and the engine, then the tranny, probably the rear end, and then bastardized with a 5 speed and a jeep steering assembly.
Man, am I glad I'm not you.
I would never be able to sleep at night again, ever, after doing all that evil to an iconic mid year.
(looking for that emoji)
Naw, I kept the paper work and the Muncie. 
12-01-2016, 05:56 PM
#30
Race Director
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C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified 2020
I have the original bill of sale that was handed to me by the original owner for my '67. 
Dennis
Dennis
12-01-2016, 07:36 PM
#31
Race Director
12-01-2016, 07:43 PM
#32
Race Director
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I agree it has to be 5% or less, probably less. I've owned a bunch of old cars, and have only had minimal documentation on one of them. They were simply used cars back then, and many went through a lot of owners....after the second owner, usually to a teenager, and then into the void. Whatever documentation that was saved by the original owner may have made it to the second owner, but after that, the chances of it staying with the car are next to nil.
12-01-2016, 08:04 PM
#33
Melting Slicks
Roy Sinor says he has seen everything counterfeited. Everything. Door jamb oil change stickers, matchbooks under the seat, brochures from the day, drag race time slips, etc.. Window stickers, build sheets, order forms, and receipts are too easy. This paper makes provenance which makes money. Unless you can talk to a previous owner referenced on the paper, assume the paper is phoney. Yeah I know that's harsh, and I'm sure there's exceptions. But when somebody's trying to sell you something and is using paper to justify an above market price, watch out.
12-01-2016, 08:41 PM
#34
Melting Slicks
My car came with the tank sticker, and after a 10 year search I now have a picture that the original owner sent me of the car the day he received it with the owners card and patch, It's framed up and hangs over his desk today. He did put my name and info on the back so when he passes his daughter is to send it to me. 
We exchange Christmas cards still today. I also have a copy of every title (7) that MO. (2) AK. KA. OK, TX and VA. DMV's sent me. I have also spoken with the daughter of the owner of the dealership that sold the car. She said that they only sold 1 or 2 corvettes that year, it was a very rural dealership, she sent me a picture of the dealership along with her fathers busn. card and a newspaper ad of the dealership. I have also found the original dealers nameplate, and I can see evidence of where it was installed on the car. Because of the titles I have the name and nameplate of the dealership that the car was traded into in 1970 for a 970 Monte Carlo. Thank you E-Bay. I sent for the NCRS dealer info just for the heck of it and it confirms what I already knew. I continue my search for the POP that was with the car when t was traded in. The above 10 year search was very interesting. I now have the car 20 years. Oh I also have both sets of original keys with knock outs.
I am the second owner of our 1966 Impala SS Conv, that my across the street neighbor brought home when I was 10, it took me 15 years to put it in my garage and still have it today. I have the POP dealer invoice every registration oil change sticker gas receipts service records original keys with punch outs yada yada yada.
Our 1987 El Camino came from the original owner with owners manual dealer prep paperwork service records key punch outs dealer key chain.
Some cars retain this stuff. I am lucky.
We exchange Christmas cards still today. I also have a copy of every title (7) that MO. (2) AK. KA. OK, TX and VA. DMV's sent me. I have also spoken with the daughter of the owner of the dealership that sold the car. She said that they only sold 1 or 2 corvettes that year, it was a very rural dealership, she sent me a picture of the dealership along with her fathers busn. card and a newspaper ad of the dealership. I have also found the original dealers nameplate, and I can see evidence of where it was installed on the car. Because of the titles I have the name and nameplate of the dealership that the car was traded into in 1970 for a 970 Monte Carlo. Thank you E-Bay. I sent for the NCRS dealer info just for the heck of it and it confirms what I already knew. I continue my search for the POP that was with the car when t was traded in. The above 10 year search was very interesting. I now have the car 20 years. Oh I also have both sets of original keys with knock outs. I am the second owner of our 1966 Impala SS Conv, that my across the street neighbor brought home when I was 10, it took me 15 years to put it in my garage and still have it today. I have the POP dealer invoice every registration oil change sticker gas receipts service records original keys with punch outs yada yada yada.
Our 1987 El Camino came from the original owner with owners manual dealer prep paperwork service records key punch outs dealer key chain.
Some cars retain this stuff. I am lucky.
12-01-2016, 09:58 PM
#35
Advanced
Have all the paperwork with mine & POP. Funny thing is, I could have cared less when I bought the car. The salesman handed me the old yellow plastic envelope with the owners manual and paperwork and I'm thinking, yeah whatever. I was young and had big block fever. Of course that was over 30 years ago. Now I'm glad I kept that old paperwork!
12-01-2016, 11:24 PM
#36
Drifting
If I had to guess, I'd say fewer than 1 in a hundred cars retain any original paper. Nice to have if your car is highly optioned, but if it's a base model, who cares?
Call me crazy but I'm more interested in seeing original parts than original paper.
Call me crazy but I'm more interested in seeing original parts than original paper.
12-01-2016, 11:51 PM
#37
Safety Car
I am the second owner of my 61 and I have all of the original documentation including the actual cancelled check from the bank (not a copy). I have much of the original documentation for my 57 but not everything like the 61. I am another one that keeps everything from my new cars including the plastic that covers the seats and the carpets. I never let a dealer do a dealer prep on the interior of any new car. I always do it myself.
12-02-2016, 07:38 AM
#38
Drifting
The several anecdotes appearing here clearly illustrate the point of Mike Terry's original post. Paperwork is relatively easy to fake, and very little reliance should be placed on it when purchasing a car unless, and only unless, the provenance of the documents can be demonstrated beyond all doubt.
12-02-2016, 10:56 AM
#39
Safety Car
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The several anecdotes appearing here clearly illustrate the point of Mike Terry's original post. Paperwork is relatively easy to fake, and very little reliance should be placed on it when purchasing a car unless, and only unless, the provenance of the documents can be demonstrated beyond all doubt.
12-02-2016, 11:29 AM
#40
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The several anecdotes appearing here clearly illustrate the point of Mike Terry's original post. Paperwork is relatively easy to fake, and very little reliance should be placed on it when purchasing a car unless, and only unless, the provenance of the documents can be demonstrated beyond all doubt.
Skepticism in general increases with the rarity/value of the car.
