survivor66

I agree. The POP for mine has that old fashioned reverse embossed adhesive lettering glued to the booklet. Even without booklet, with the ink smears and minor defects, that thing would cost more to duplicate than the value added. But of course the more matching documents the better the case for originality.

I wonder if these well documented cars are more immune to the ups and downs of the general market due to their rarity? Thinking down the road, it seems high end collections will ultimately have them all, and they likely will not appear on the BJ and Mecum blocks.

Nowhere Man

if you look at the history of sales you will notice the cream puff, well documented one or two owner cars always command top dollar. but the market is skewed as most of those cars get sold word of mouth and never make it the general market. most cars on the market are nothing but Heinz 57 cars. there are exceptions to this and every now and then a gem shows up.

Clonetrooper334

Some are just fun to look back on, some are good (for me) reference points...

Dad's original invoice on his '66.

Dr. Seltsam

Here the original papers of my little sleeper



Some of the RPO´s I didn´t know before

But I have one document of my 1965 tanker, which is really original.








It´s the real photo in an Austrian title with all owner until now, vin and engine number. Best of best document ever

It´s a Canadian export car, which was sold first in Austria in 1966.

rsinor

I've seen three tank sheets and two dealer invoices, incidentally they were all different for one car.

I provide copies of counterfeit paperwork in my Collector Car Fraud presentation that the best of the best have admitted they would not have detected.

If they can counterfeit a car to a point that maybe even a recognized expert misses it what do you think they can do with paper.

Dr. Seltsam

That´s really true. The fake tank sticker of my 66 is easy to recognize, but the window sticker and the car shipper doc was done really good, so I was shocked.

Mike Terry

Yeah a Fake tank sticker on a 66 Corvette would be easy to see it is FAKE because they did not put Tank Stickers on Corvette Tanks till 1967 Cars.
AS for the car info from Austria, all Austria wants from USA cars is a Bill of Sale. They do not car that much about the US Titles. The Austrian Titles are nothing like you would think it would be like. It is more like a book of the car telling the tire size and wheel base and motor size. It tell just about everything that is or should be original on the car. Then the car has to pass inspection in Austria in order for the owner to get there Austrian Title. The have to make several changes on American cars like tail lights and side marker lights and other things. Once that is all done then the owner gets the Austrian Title to his imported American Car.

Dr. Seltsam

You have to check the rpo´s and the hp of this original tank sticker

The reason was, that I wanted to check who good the specialists make fakes for some bugs. If you spend much more money you get a more better one.

It´s not easy to learn if you are in Europe. You have more specialists and people who drove the cars when the cars were new. In the sixties a C2 was more rarer as a Ferrari here.

Dr. Seltsam

I don´t agree in this case . Look on the Austrian title. It´s the original one from 1966 with all owners with vin and engine number since new. Check the title. No better document possible I think. If you buy a car now and want to have an approval here in Germany, than you are right.

Mike Terry

I have several friends who live in Austria and I go there every few years for a month or so and they have bought Vettes and motorcycles and trucks and cars over here and I put them into a shipping container and send them to them plus other things they buy and I have seen there titles on cars I have sent them and there is a huge difference in the titles they have on the cars now as to what I sent them. 3 of the guys live in Dietmann 2 in Vienna and 1 in Marchtrenk and a couple in other small towns.

66/427

This may be a little off topic....when a 1964 left the factory what document accompanied the vehicle to the dealer to be used to title this new car with the Secretary of State? Would there have been a MSO? Does anyone have an examples of the titling doc used back for 1964 to register their car?

Thanks Ric

Railroadman

Well, I'm not the original owner of "my" '67 but I was the second owner. And somewhere I inherited a pack-rat gene because altho I sold the car in about 1970, I have the owners manual, POP, wheel trim instruction sheet, AM-FM radio instructions, and the Form 7 mentioned by someone above. AND a certificate from the dealer saying that if the car comes in for service, a rental would be available for - as printed, $3.00 a day, but in pen the 3 was changed to a 5.

Procrastination Racing

Say it ain't so, Joe! All of these cars with original documentation aren't necessarily original?


Anyone who ever bought a used car off a lot could tell you that. A friend bought a '64 convertible back around 1970. The owner handed him a huge pack of papers, receipts, and so on. Friend asked what was all of this. The guy said to trust him, keep it, he would be glad he did some day.

Now my friend was a car guy in the '60s so it wasn't like he was some newb, but even he had no idea why keeping it back then would mean all these years a later.

I remember in the mid 70s, a few cars began showing window stickers, and at Bloomington 1977, it was easy to buy a reproduction window sticker. Aging was easy. Leaving it on the dash of your daily driver at work would work the sun on it and a little tea would color it.

Forty years later, and people act like this is all new.

Like everything else, it is more important to read the person selling than the paperwork. Honest John's Used Autos could have every scrap available but you know the guy is as crooked as a snake.

LouieM

Thank you for your authoritative opinion, which I know is based on vast experience.

Mike Terry

I know there was no documentation other then maybe the Corvette Black Book but in 1954 GM said they painted 4 of the Corvettes Black. I really got interested in 1954 information when I bought my first 54 Vette back in 1998 but anyway to date I have only seen 13 of the 4 original 4 Black 1954 Corvettes built by GM. All of the 13 owners I have spoken with and each one tells me there car was an original Black Corvette built and painted the first time by GM. Where is the documentation??? Sorry Gm did not keep good records that far back. I would say if you are looking to buy an original documented 1954 Black Corvette don't by one you will never really know if you get the real deal or not. If it comes with documents then you know they are FAKE and the person selling it is a Fake also

tuxnharley

Well, that's one way to tell for sure that a car is a fake!

big block ken

I've owned a dozen Corvettes over the past 40 years, and still have the window sticker off of a '77 I bought new (and traded in). I also bought a '78 Pace Car out of the show room where it sat from 1978 to 2005, with window stickers still on it, decals in the box, etc. And I once found the tank sticker on my '72 LT1 with A/C, that was meant for the Corvette behind it on the assembly line!

Now I have the '66 big block that my brother bought new when I was 12. He passed away 3 years ago and I've known this car for 50 years, including when it scored 98 pts on it's first NCRS Top Flight award attempt. It's had one Laguna blue repaint (lacquer), but otherwise is about as original as you'll see. I have every original document that came with the car; original keys, POP, owners manual, GM congratulatory letter (just found by my sister in law), sales brochure, gold owners pin, owners card, am/fm radio instructions (3 pgs?!), yellow radio hang tag, and even the cash register receipt for state sales tax! So I hope that it's more like 1% are this original. It will pay off when I NEVER sell it!




Original sales order for 1966 Corvette 427/390, 4 spd.

Dr. Seltsam

Thank you for your post. It´s very interesting to see real documents.
I have seen documents of a 67 427. The car was sold from a well known seller in the USA as a real mn car.
As described in the tank sticker the car was a real side pipe car, but the pipes were added sometimes. Either the car or the seller lies.

I am very carefully, when I get offers of cars with great color combo and rare options.

64luke

This was a special purchase when new for most people, I think that's why there are still "barn finds." I have a photo album which came with my car that shows the original owner selling the car to the second owner who restored it beautifully. The original owner was elderly when he sold it and wealthy enough to keep his worn out old car, rather than sell it for $500 back in the 1970s. I'm sure it was an emotional decision to finally sell that special purchase from 1960. Did he keep much of the paperwork? No.

The second owner restored it to perfection and either aged out of interest, or lost interest because there wasn't much more to do. It has the right hoses, clamps, numbers, etc. I can get the right paperwork too.

Frankie the Fink

Nice.

I don't run across too many believable instances of real documents at this point (but then I ain't looking too hard). Tim Burke of Burke's Corvette in Maitland, FL has some nice original docs for his '67 and the story to go with them; apparently Vettebuyer does too for his '63.

These guys aren't selling their cars and don't necessarily have a 'dog in the fight' to bolster a car's value with 'made up' docs.

I was a "lot boy" for several used car dealers in the 60s (including my Dad's dealership) and Nowhere Man had it right. First thing you did on a trade in or getting a car in wholesale was get all the "old junk" out of it and I've seen it all. From a pistol (later discovered to have been used in a robbery), to ladies underwear, to $480 in cash (serious money back then)....even a prosthetic limb....and a Fender Telecaster guitar my brother has to this day.

Aand yes the glovebox papers got tossed too. Gas receipts, speeding tickets, dealer docs, old letters, most repair invoices, etc.. went into the round file. If you found a receipt for a fresh paint job, new tires, or transmission overhaul that was a sales boost so you kept it...

If a car has "made the rounds" through many owners and dealers "back in the day" it would be an oddity for the old paperwork to be retained..