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Anyone have brake shoes for the Metallic Brake J56 option for a 64? I have a complete NOS set on my car that I'm restoring, but have found one pad is slightly chipped. Would prefer to buy one shoe to replace, but what do you have? Can't imagine how this one got chipped. No dust or pieces anywhere, just gone.
Anyone have brake shoes for the Metallic Brake J56 option for a 64? I have a complete NOS set on my car that I'm restoring, but have found one pad is slightly chipped. Would prefer to buy one shoe to replace, but what do you have? Can't imagine how this one got chipped. No dust or pieces anywhere, just gone.
Are you referring to the J56 or J65 shoes? Front or rear? I may be able to help.
I think J65 shoes Rex. They made 4780 cars with the option, vs 29 with J-56. As you know well, the J-56 is the Z0-6 left over parts from 1963 and very rare. I know there is a difference is size of the shoes in question.
PORTERFIELD BRAKES in Costa Mesa, California can rebuild original cores with new linings for todays use. Not OEM, but will get the job done.
Other companies made service parts back in the day, so replacement parts are out there.
J65 is correct. I fat fingered the title and used the wrong RPO, but I think the shoes are the same for both. Will get a picture tomorrow to verify which shoe.
Yes, those are Velvetouch. I have a set on one of my cars and they work great, but the segments aren't anything like Chevy shoes. I followed the recommended break in procedure to a T and the paint burned off of the drums.
Repeated stops from about 45mph with hard braking, just short of lock up.
Yes, those are Velvetouch. I have a set on one of my cars and they work great, but the segments aren't anything like Chevy shoes. I followed the recommended break in procedure to a T and the paint burned off of the drums.
Repeated stops from about 45mph with hard braking, just short of lock up.
My only experience with Velvetouch shoes was when I got to do some hot laps in the '57 pictured below.
They would haul the car down from speed just fine. No fading. Very predictable.
But they wore rapidly. I could start out a session with a solid, high pedal and by the end of the session, the pedal was near the floor. I had to re-adjust the brakes before every session.
Jim,
I don't have any wear data on mine because I haven't pulled the drums in years. The only hard use they have seen has been at the end of a 1/4mi. I also added self-adjusters so my pedal stays in place.
Of course, I've done some spirited driving on the road and I am completely happy with how they perform. Driver technique is just the opposite than with standard shoes. Unlike standard shoes where you have to increase pedal pressure as they get hot, with metallics you have to ease up a bit on the pedal during hard braking to prevent lock-up.
If anyone decides to use them, they must remember to finish the drums to a 2 micron finish. A standard "ground" finish will not work.
J-65 shoes are the same as base brakes - just the welded metallic lining segments rather than bonded organic linings, and the same shoes were used on contemporaneous pass. cars and light trucks, so rebuildable cores should be relatively easy to find.
Just because a metallic segment has a chunk missing doesn't mean the shoe is not not serviceable as is.
Post of photo of the damage.
In normal use the J-65 shoes will last well over 100K miles, but by the time the shoes are worn out, so are the drums. If you have J-65 shoes that are still serviceable, the system can be restored back to essentially as-new simply by cleaning everything up and rebuilding all the hydraulic components, but make sure you mark the shoes and drums to ensure that everything goes back in the same position as original.
Several have followed this advice with very good results, and, of course, the cost was relatively low. New wheel cylinders are cheap and specialists can rebuild original master cylinders.
The J-65 lining segments are not available AFAIK, but there are modern materials that will yield equally effective braking in severe service without the downside of the originals like an increasing Cf with temperature. Porterfield was mentioned and another is Carbotech Engineering in Florida.
J-65 shoes are the same as base brakes - just the welded metallic lining segments rather than bonded organic linings, and the same shoes were used on contemporaneous pass. cars and light trucks, so rebuildable cores should be relatively easy to find.
Just because a metallic segment has a chunk missing doesn't mean the shoe is not not serviceable as is.
Post of photo of the damage.
In normal use the J-65 shoes will last well over 100K miles, but by the time the shoes are worn out, so are the drums. If you have J-65 shoes that are still serviceable, the system can be restored back to essentially as-new simply by cleaning everything up and rebuilding all the hydraulic components, but make sure you mark the shoes and drums to ensure that everything goes back in the same position as original.
Several have followed this advice with very good results, and, of course, the cost was relatively low. New wheel cylinders are cheap and specialists can rebuild original master cylinders.
The J-65 lining segments are not available AFAIK, but there are modern materials that will yield equally effective braking in severe service without the downside of the originals like an increasing Cf with temperature. Porterfield was mentioned and another is Carbotech Engineering in Florida.
Duke
Duke is spot on. Chances are that chip won't cause any problems but you can post a pic for our review if you want.
The boys in Florida made these shoes for my 64 J-56 car. I wanted to keep the "look" of the segmented shoes as much as possible but with modern technology. I was very pleased with the final product but I had to hold their feet to the fire towards the end to get them to fulfill their commitment.
OK, took pic this afternoon. This isn't as bad as I remembered from a few days back. I'm still disassembling this 64 for restoration and when I took these off I was aggravated that one was damaged as they were NOS when installed back in ~75. I recalled seeing one pad 1/2 broken off. Guess I was over reacting to this. What do you think? It's one of the front primary shoes.
On a similar note, I'm pulling fastners and parts for cad plating. Is the anchor post at the top of the backing plate cad plated or painted. It's the fastner with a bolt on back of the backing plate that both brake shoes press against when stopping.
That's nothing to worry about - very minor. The shoes have plenty of friction material left, and if the drums are not excessively worn - say beyond 11.1" ID they are okay to reuse observing the cautions I outlined in my previous post.
Original J-65 type shoes, either St. Louis installed or OTC replacements are getting rare, and I always advise to keep them if at all possible.
Duke is spot on. Chances are that chip won't cause any problems but you can post a pic for our review if you want.
The boys in Florida made these shoes for my 64 J-56 car. I wanted to keep the "look" of the segmented shoes as much as possible but with modern technology. I was very pleased with the final product but I had to hold their feet to the fire towards the end to get them to fulfill their commitment.
Do they normally install a full length friction material on the shoes rather than the 3 and 5 segments that I surmise is what you requested?
That's nothing to worry about - very minor. The shoes have plenty of friction material left, and if the drums are not excessively worn - say beyond 11.1" ID they are okay to reuse observing the cautions I outlined in my previous post.
Original J-65 type shoes, either St. Louis installed or OTC replacements are getting rare, and I always advise to keep them if at all possible.
Duke
They should have plenty of material left. They've yet to make their first stop!
Thanks for the advice! I need to reverify the drums. Size as I recall from long ago is good, but surface finish may have deteriorated over lots of years sitting.
Do they normally install a full length friction material on the shoes rather than the 3 and 5 segments that I surmise is what you requested?
Duke
Duke,
When I had them build these shoes for me, I DID indeed request the segments. I DID NOT inquire about full length linings but I am confident they could have done that too. They told me this was the last set of shoes they would be doing as they were focusing their efforts on disc brake pads.
Your brake shoe material looks ok to me. HOWEVER, the major problem with these brake shoes is the fact that the friction matereial was SPOT WELDED ON aver 50 years ago. When your brakes get HOT, then the friction material (pads on the shoe) tends to separate from the shoe and block that brake shoe from working, keeping the rest of the friction material from contacting the brake drum. This can/may result in uneven (say non-existent) braking from one wheel while another wheel has maximum braking. It was this Phenomenon which caused me to switch to stock Delco disc brakes with race pad material, because I KNEW that eventually I would DIE if I kept on racing ont he original brakes (YES, I know that I have J56 brakes, but the assembly of the J65 brakes is the same.........)
They should have plenty of material left. They've yet to make their first stop!
Thanks for the advice! I need to reverify the drums. Size as I recall from long ago is good, but surface finish may have deteriorated over lots of years sitting.
Are you saying those shoes are NOS and have never been used?
J-65 drums have the same casting numbers as base drums, but the friction surface is honed to a 20 microinch finish per the 1963 Corvette Shop Manual, not "2 micron" as someone posted earlier. A 20 microinch RMS surface can usually be obtained by polishing the surface with 240 grit abrasive, and 320 will get it down to about 10.
Front J-65 drums, though the same casting number as base drums actually have thicker webs. Research indicates these drums many have a stamped "X" to differentiate the castings from base front drums.
12-02-2016, 11:03 PM
Metallic Brake J52
Duke is spot on. Chances are that chip won't cause any problems but you can post a pic for our review if you want.
