Which drive train parts to use in 1960 Vette?
01-16-2017, 04:40 PM
#1
Which drive train parts to use in 1960 Vette?
I finally have my 1960 Chevy 283 engine, pad number F04I2a ready to go into my 1960 Corvette.I have a bell housing for it, number 3899621 and a muncie 4 speed from 1963 number 3831704.I changed the front bearing retainer to fit the larger hole in the bell housing.Now the problem.I need to buy all the components from the bell housing to the tranny including the flywheel, pressure plate, clutch disc, throw out bearing and clutch release arm. Do I get all full size 1960 Chevy parts since the engine is from a full size Chevy or 1960 Corvette parts? I read that they use different throw out bearings and clutch release levers.What are all the differences between the two and which ones should I use Thanks
01-16-2017, 08:52 PM
#2
Race Director
Now the problem.I need to buy all the components from the bell housing to the tranny including the flywheel, pressure plate, clutch disc, throw out bearing and clutch release arm. Do I get all full size 1960 Chevy parts since the engine is from a full size Chevy or 1960 Corvette parts?
The 621 bellhousing was used with 66-74 big blocks and 69 and later small blocks. The 621 uses the GM 11" clutch, and you need the corresponding flywheel and clutch kit. The correct flywheel is a 14", 168 tooth, cast iron flywheel. The GM part number was 3991469.
The throw out bearing is the same one that was used with virtually every Chevrolet V8 engine from 1956 to 2002. I'd say that the clutch fork to use is the one that was used in all Corvette's from 64-81. The correct GM part number for the fork is 3887177.
Both the fork and flywheel have been discontinued, but both are available as repros.
01-16-2017, 09:26 PM
#3
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FWIW, your 63 Muncie might be worth more to someone with a 63 as it is a one year only and is supposedly not as 'robust' as the later muncies. that way you can use a 'regular' Muncie and a regular bellhousing.
but, apparently you have changed bearing retainers already so I guess 'no harm, no foul' with going ahead with your present plan..
Bill
but, apparently you have changed bearing retainers already so I guess 'no harm, no foul' with going ahead with your present plan..
Bill
Last edited by wmf62; 01-16-2017 at 09:28 PM.
01-16-2017, 10:38 PM
#4
throw out bearing
I'm going to tell you neither.
The 621 bellhousing was used with 66-74 big blocks and 69 and later small blocks. The 621 uses the GM 11" clutch, and you need the corresponding flywheel and clutch kit. The correct flywheel is a 14", 168 tooth, cast iron flywheel. The GM part number was 3991469.
The throw out bearing is the same one that was used with virtually every Chevrolet V8 engine from 1956 to 2002. I'd say that the clutch fork to use is the one that was used in all Corvette's from 64-81. The correct GM part number for the fork is 3887177.
Both the fork and flywheel have been discontinued, but both are available as repros.
The 621 bellhousing was used with 66-74 big blocks and 69 and later small blocks. The 621 uses the GM 11" clutch, and you need the corresponding flywheel and clutch kit. The correct flywheel is a 14", 168 tooth, cast iron flywheel. The GM part number was 3991469.
The throw out bearing is the same one that was used with virtually every Chevrolet V8 engine from 1956 to 2002. I'd say that the clutch fork to use is the one that was used in all Corvette's from 64-81. The correct GM part number for the fork is 3887177.
Both the fork and flywheel have been discontinued, but both are available as repros.
01-16-2017, 10:45 PM
#5
Vette drive train parts
FWIW, your 63 Muncie might be worth more to someone with a 63 as it is a one year only and is supposedly not as 'robust' as the later muncies. that way you can use a 'regular' Muncie and a regular bellhousing.
but, apparently you have changed bearing retainers already so I guess 'no harm, no foul' with going ahead with your present plan..
Bill
but, apparently you have changed bearing retainers already so I guess 'no harm, no foul' with going ahead with your present plan..
Bill
01-17-2017, 12:29 AM
#6
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The thowout bearing has NOTHING TO DO WITH YEAR MODEL CAR NOR BODY STYLE!!!!!!!!!
The throwout bearing is 100% dependent on the style of clutch pressure plate used! The more common style pressure plate that is used today is diaphragm with multiple fingers. They are basically referred to as the flat diaphragm or the cone style diaphragm.
The short (or thin as you refer to it) bearing is used with a cone diaphragm and the long bearing is used with a flat diaphragm. I would STRONGLY ENCOURAGE you to use a more or less standard replacement cone style diaphragm pressure plate and short bearing. This will make an excellent all around clutch. If you go with the flat diaphragm style, they are notorious for remaining disengaged when shifting above 5000rpm. Once the rpm comes down, the clutch SUDDENLY engages----------BAM!!!!
The bell housing that you have chosen (621), as already mentioned, was used on later models with the larger 168 teeth flywheel. The 55-62 Corvettes did use a 168 teeth flywheel, but those flywheels only had a bolt pattern for a 10in clutch. The later 168 teeth flywheels had a bolt pattern for an 11in clutch (which I much prefer!). The 168 teeth flywheels with a bolt pattern for an 11in clutch can easily be picked up at swap meets for $25-50. They were used on so many engines up through 1985 and they are about as common as dirt.
Also, the 55-62 Corvettes used an open bottom bell housing. the 55-59 housings were cast iron and the 60-62 housings were alum. As I say, all were open bottom and the starter mounted to the bell housing. If you use the 621 housing, then your ONLY choice for a starter is a block mounted version which has a CAST IRON nose with a staggered bolt pattern. MANY, MANY early engines DID NOT have the required holes for a block mounted starter. YOU NEED TO CHECK YOUR BLOCK TO CONFIRM THAT IT HAS 3 THREADED HOLES FOR MOUNTING A STARTER!!!!
Below is a comparison of cast iron and alum open bottom housings.
The 60 and 61-62 open bottom alum housings are 100% identical and 100% interchangeable-----------------EXCEPT-------------the hole for the bearing fork is a little smaller in the 60 housing.
This is the hole for the fork in the 61-2 housing.
This is the hole for the fork in the 60 housing.
The throwout bearing is 100% dependent on the style of clutch pressure plate used! The more common style pressure plate that is used today is diaphragm with multiple fingers. They are basically referred to as the flat diaphragm or the cone style diaphragm.
The short (or thin as you refer to it) bearing is used with a cone diaphragm and the long bearing is used with a flat diaphragm. I would STRONGLY ENCOURAGE you to use a more or less standard replacement cone style diaphragm pressure plate and short bearing. This will make an excellent all around clutch. If you go with the flat diaphragm style, they are notorious for remaining disengaged when shifting above 5000rpm. Once the rpm comes down, the clutch SUDDENLY engages----------BAM!!!!
The bell housing that you have chosen (621), as already mentioned, was used on later models with the larger 168 teeth flywheel. The 55-62 Corvettes did use a 168 teeth flywheel, but those flywheels only had a bolt pattern for a 10in clutch. The later 168 teeth flywheels had a bolt pattern for an 11in clutch (which I much prefer!). The 168 teeth flywheels with a bolt pattern for an 11in clutch can easily be picked up at swap meets for $25-50. They were used on so many engines up through 1985 and they are about as common as dirt.
Also, the 55-62 Corvettes used an open bottom bell housing. the 55-59 housings were cast iron and the 60-62 housings were alum. As I say, all were open bottom and the starter mounted to the bell housing. If you use the 621 housing, then your ONLY choice for a starter is a block mounted version which has a CAST IRON nose with a staggered bolt pattern. MANY, MANY early engines DID NOT have the required holes for a block mounted starter. YOU NEED TO CHECK YOUR BLOCK TO CONFIRM THAT IT HAS 3 THREADED HOLES FOR MOUNTING A STARTER!!!!
Below is a comparison of cast iron and alum open bottom housings.
The 60 and 61-62 open bottom alum housings are 100% identical and 100% interchangeable-----------------EXCEPT-------------the hole for the bearing fork is a little smaller in the 60 housing.
This is the hole for the fork in the 61-2 housing.
This is the hole for the fork in the 60 housing.
01-17-2017, 01:08 PM
#9
drive train parts
The thowout bearing has NOTHING TO DO WITH YEAR MODEL CAR NOR BODY STYLE!!!!!!!!!
The throwout bearing is 100% dependent on the style of clutch pressure plate used! The more common style pressure plate that is used today is diaphragm with multiple fingers. They are basically referred to as the flat diaphragm or the cone style diaphragm.
The short (or thin as you refer to it) bearing is used with a cone diaphragm and the long bearing is used with a flat diaphragm. I would STRONGLY ENCOURAGE you to use a more or less standard replacement cone style diaphragm pressure plate and short bearing. This will make an excellent all around clutch. If you go with the flat diaphragm style, they are notorious for remaining disengaged when shifting above 5000rpm. Once the rpm comes down, the clutch SUDDENLY engages----------BAM!!!!
The bell housing that you have chosen (621), as already mentioned, waused on later models with the larger 168 teeth flywheel. The 55-62 Corvettes did use a 168 teeth flywheel, but those flywheels only had a bolt pattern for a 10in clutch. The later 168 teeth flywheels had a bolt pattern for an 11in clutch (which I much prefer!). The 168 teeth flywheels with a bolt pattern for an 11in clutch can easily be picked up at swap meets for $25-50. They were used on so many engines up through 1985 and they are about as common as dirt.
Also, the 55-62 Corvettes used an open bottom bell housing. the 55-59 housings were cast iron and the 60-62 housings were alum. As I say, allwere open bottom and the starter mounted to the bell housing. If you use the 621 housing, then your ONLY choice for a starter is a block mounted version which has a CAST IRON nose with a staggered bolt pattern. MANY, MANY early engines DID NOT have the required holes for a block mounted starter. YOU NEED TO CHECK YOUR BLOCK TO CONFIRM THAT IT HAS 3 THREADED HOLES FOR MOUNTING A STARTER!!!!
Below is a comparison of cast iron and alum open bottom housings.
The 60 and 61-62 open bottom alum housings are 100% identical and 100% interchangeable-----------------EXCEPT-------------the hole for
bearing fork is a little smaller in the 60 housing.
This is the hole for the fork in the 61-2 housing.
Thanks for the great explanation and pictures. Only question I have is, which clutch release lever do I use with the 621 bell and the cone style clutch?
This is the hole for the fork in the 60 housing.
The throwout bearing is 100% dependent on the style of clutch pressure plate used! The more common style pressure plate that is used today is diaphragm with multiple fingers. They are basically referred to as the flat diaphragm or the cone style diaphragm.
The short (or thin as you refer to it) bearing is used with a cone diaphragm and the long bearing is used with a flat diaphragm. I would STRONGLY ENCOURAGE you to use a more or less standard replacement cone style diaphragm pressure plate and short bearing. This will make an excellent all around clutch. If you go with the flat diaphragm style, they are notorious for remaining disengaged when shifting above 5000rpm. Once the rpm comes down, the clutch SUDDENLY engages----------BAM!!!!
The bell housing that you have chosen (621), as already mentioned, waused on later models with the larger 168 teeth flywheel. The 55-62 Corvettes did use a 168 teeth flywheel, but those flywheels only had a bolt pattern for a 10in clutch. The later 168 teeth flywheels had a bolt pattern for an 11in clutch (which I much prefer!). The 168 teeth flywheels with a bolt pattern for an 11in clutch can easily be picked up at swap meets for $25-50. They were used on so many engines up through 1985 and they are about as common as dirt.
Also, the 55-62 Corvettes used an open bottom bell housing. the 55-59 housings were cast iron and the 60-62 housings were alum. As I say, allwere open bottom and the starter mounted to the bell housing. If you use the 621 housing, then your ONLY choice for a starter is a block mounted version which has a CAST IRON nose with a staggered bolt pattern. MANY, MANY early engines DID NOT have the required holes for a block mounted starter. YOU NEED TO CHECK YOUR BLOCK TO CONFIRM THAT IT HAS 3 THREADED HOLES FOR MOUNTING A STARTER!!!!
Below is a comparison of cast iron and alum open bottom housings.
The 60 and 61-62 open bottom alum housings are 100% identical and 100% interchangeable-----------------EXCEPT-------------the hole for
bearing fork is a little smaller in the 60 housing.
This is the hole for the fork in the 61-2 housing.
Thanks for the great explanation and pictures. Only question I have is, which clutch release lever do I use with the 621 bell and the cone style clutch?This is the hole for the fork in the 60 housing.
01-17-2017, 04:34 PM
#10
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The CORRECT throwout bearing fork, and ALL OTHER clutch linkage parts, is the one that was originally used for your 60.
As I pointed out above, the SHORT bearing is used with a cone diaphragm clutch and a LONG bearing is used with a flat diaphragm clutch. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND using the cone style clutch.
THE THROWOUT BEARING FORK NEEDS TO BE THE ONE WHICH WOULD BE USED WITH THE PARTICULAR CAR IN QUESTION (IN YOUR CASE, A 60 VETTE). NEITHER THE ENGINE, BELL HOUSING NOR THE TRANSMISSION DETERMINES WHAT FORK IS USED-------------------IT IS THE CAR ITSELF THAT DETERMINES WHICH FORK TO USE!
WHY???
THE BALL STUD IN ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL CHEVY BELL HOUSINGS IS IN THE SAME GEOMETRIC POSITION. THE BALL STUDS IN 55-59 CAST IRON HOUSINGS, 60-62 ALUM HOUSINGS, 63-65 SMALL FULL ENCLOSURE ALUM HOUSINGS, 66-LATER BIG ALUM FULL ENCLOSURE HOUSINGS (SUCH AS THE 621) ARE ALL IN THE SAME LOCATION IN THE HOUSING!!!!!!!!!! THUS, ALL FORKS WILL PIVOT IN THE SAME GEOMETRIC PLANE WHEN ATTACHED TO THE BALL STUD! I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN IT ANY BETTER.
As I pointed out above, the SHORT bearing is used with a cone diaphragm clutch and a LONG bearing is used with a flat diaphragm clutch. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND using the cone style clutch.
THE THROWOUT BEARING FORK NEEDS TO BE THE ONE WHICH WOULD BE USED WITH THE PARTICULAR CAR IN QUESTION (IN YOUR CASE, A 60 VETTE). NEITHER THE ENGINE, BELL HOUSING NOR THE TRANSMISSION DETERMINES WHAT FORK IS USED-------------------IT IS THE CAR ITSELF THAT DETERMINES WHICH FORK TO USE!
WHY???
THE BALL STUD IN ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL CHEVY BELL HOUSINGS IS IN THE SAME GEOMETRIC POSITION. THE BALL STUDS IN 55-59 CAST IRON HOUSINGS, 60-62 ALUM HOUSINGS, 63-65 SMALL FULL ENCLOSURE ALUM HOUSINGS, 66-LATER BIG ALUM FULL ENCLOSURE HOUSINGS (SUCH AS THE 621) ARE ALL IN THE SAME LOCATION IN THE HOUSING!!!!!!!!!! THUS, ALL FORKS WILL PIVOT IN THE SAME GEOMETRIC PLANE WHEN ATTACHED TO THE BALL STUD! I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN IT ANY BETTER.
Last edited by DZAUTO; 01-17-2017 at 04:44 PM.
01-17-2017, 06:17 PM
#11
clutch fork
The CORRECT throwout bearing fork, and ALL OTHER clutch linkage parts, is the one that was originally used for your 60.
As I pointed out above, the SHORT bearing is used with a cone diaphragm clutch and a LONG bearing is used with a flat diaphragm clutch. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND using the cone style clutch.
THE THROWOUT BEARING FORK NEEDS TO BE THE ONE WHICH WOULD BE USED WITH THE PARTICULAR CAR IN QUESTION (IN YOUR CASE, A 60 VETTE). NEITHER THE ENGINE, BELL HOUSING NOR THE TRANSMISSION DETERMINES WHAT FORK IS USED-------------------IT IS THE CAR ITSELF THAT DETERMINES WHICH FORK TO USE!
WHY???
THE BALL STUD IN ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL CHEVY BELL HOUSINGS IS IN THE SAME GEOMETRIC POSITION. THE BALL STUDS IN 55-59 CAST IRON HOUSINGS, 60-62 ALUM HOUSINGS, 63-65 SMALL FULL ENCLOSURE ALUM HOUSINGS, 66-LATER BIG ALUM FULL ENCLOSURE HOUSINGS (SUCH AS THE 621) ARE ALL IN THE SAME LOCATION IN THE HOUSING!!!!!!!!!! THUS, ALL FORKS WILL PIVOT IN THE SAME GEOMETRIC PLANE WHEN ATTACHED TO THE BALL STUD! I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN IT ANY BETTER.
As I pointed out above, the SHORT bearing is used with a cone diaphragm clutch and a LONG bearing is used with a flat diaphragm clutch. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND using the cone style clutch.
THE THROWOUT BEARING FORK NEEDS TO BE THE ONE WHICH WOULD BE USED WITH THE PARTICULAR CAR IN QUESTION (IN YOUR CASE, A 60 VETTE). NEITHER THE ENGINE, BELL HOUSING NOR THE TRANSMISSION DETERMINES WHAT FORK IS USED-------------------IT IS THE CAR ITSELF THAT DETERMINES WHICH FORK TO USE!
WHY???
THE BALL STUD IN ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL CHEVY BELL HOUSINGS IS IN THE SAME GEOMETRIC POSITION. THE BALL STUDS IN 55-59 CAST IRON HOUSINGS, 60-62 ALUM HOUSINGS, 63-65 SMALL FULL ENCLOSURE ALUM HOUSINGS, 66-LATER BIG ALUM FULL ENCLOSURE HOUSINGS (SUCH AS THE 621) ARE ALL IN THE SAME LOCATION IN THE HOUSING!!!!!!!!!! THUS, ALL FORKS WILL PIVOT IN THE SAME GEOMETRIC PLANE WHEN ATTACHED TO THE BALL STUD! I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN IT ANY BETTER.